Predestination - Freewill and the hardened heart

a reply to: KnightLight
Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated. I'm glad someone else can see the similarities between the matrix and religion. Those who don't like the matrix cannot see the parallels between it and today's society.

To me morphous is the personification of a religious person. He believes blindly that neo is the one (prophet, salvation, whatever you want) to the point he believes it so blindly that he is willing to die for it (islam). He goes against all rational thoughts, jeopardising his entire race by allocating a ship to find neo instead of the rational thought of defending zion, which he knows to be fact. I could go on for YEARS about the comparisons but I'm at work at the moment so limited response time.

Nice perspective on free will though. Cheers

a reply to: rossacus

haha I'll give it a rest, unless something else pops into my head.
completely agree about Morpheus.

Do people notice that people say Jesus or Jesus Christ every time Neo is around..
And he Loves Trinity. Crucified, and get's angel wings? Christians rag on "illuminati symbolism"
But I go read the bible and it's all in there too? Course Christians would say Neo is Lucifer, not Jesus, and blah blah blah..

Don't let me distract you from your work.

back to thread..

Free Will,

For anyone willing to continue the thread..

a reply to: KnightLight

I think we've destroyed this thread. Sorry OP.

Back to the thread.....

a reply to: rossacus

Nice idea but does go against the teachings of a religious god.its safe to say that if god(creator better term)did create the universe it's unlikely he actually cares our species more than he does an amoeba on a distant rock in another galaxy

I think we all have our own interests and probably care more or less for them . I guess it's called priorities .You must have something or someone you hold to be of more important then others would .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

True say. But the idea that God/creator favours us over the billions of species living/extinct is very egocentric/ narcissist in nature. The fact that people believe God bestowed upon em spirituality or a soul somewhere between homosapian and monkey is astonishingly self centred.

originally posted by: rossacus
I've wanted to do a thread on free will for a while but you have taken it from a completely different vantage point. Are you saying everything is predetermined until you repent, then it became free will choices? Went a bit wayward with the horse analogies IMO.

No I am saying that you always have freewill. But that some freewill choices lead to a predetermined outcome.

Sin leads to choas. The predestined outcome for using your freewill to hurt others is chaos.

Repentance leads to mercy. The predestined outcome from using your freewill to repent is to find God's mercy.

Exalting yourself as equal to God leads to a hardened heart. The predestined outcome for such arrogance is destruction.

You are walking on a path, each freewill choice has an outcome. Some of those choices lead to chaos, or non predetermined, but others lead to a very specific predetermined path.

Pharoh made freewill choices that lead him to a very specific predetermined path of destruction.

The horse example is this. Maybe God did create soulless beings who run fearlessly to destruction. So maybe some of those who appear human, are simply empty vessels serving God's greater purpose. The horses of course would not have freewill in this example, but everyone else can choose to follow righteousness to joy or the horses to destruction.

Either way God remains just and the one who justifies.

a reply to: Isurrender73

very nice clarification there.
I was trying to get there in some roundabout way.

It was my first experience of "not being free."
When I thought about all the rules and regulations on earth, and in physics, and chemistry..

If I want a certain result I do a certain thing.. I am not free to steal a car, while still being free to live in peace.

wait I'm wrong.. I got angry at god that I had to maintain my body so I wasn't free to just be.. I had to rely on other humans to feed me, and all their wants and needs came into play.. I have to work to eat.. That's not free.. This leads one in to the mind of "nothing is truly free" because you are paying for it in sacrificing whatever else.. Life sacrifices death, it even sacrifices other life.. And in this current society unless you make it on your own, you sacrifice 40 hours a week to slavery, and another 56 hours to sleep.. Of course sleep can actually be quite interesting in it's own right.


But we can strive for maximum freedom. debt slavery, and giant governments are Gross to me. I've always felt like that, and maybe it's because I am part "Native American." but maybe it's because I naturally hate being boxed in. Starting to get claustrophobic. :p

not angry at god ANYMORE for giving me life or making it possible if that is the case.. Now it's people who need to step off, or get with it. I am grateful for being me. I am grateful now for so many things.. I don't need the things I don't have, because I sacrificed those things to be here.. I can change it up if I am no longer happy. But it's not god's fault.

a reply to: KnightLight

Freewill is tricky, because in many ways we don't actually have freewill. But most of our loss of freewill we have done to ourselves.

We have used our freewill to limit our freewill.

And the predestined outcome for attempting to control the freewill of others, is revolution.

Armageddon is predestined revolution.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I keep coming to that conclusion, but I wonder is it too late?
Could we skip destruction of billions?

For me, I have free will to fight that, while also trying to deconstruct society in a slower manner..
Maybe I am being silly, but it's who I am.

Once I started thinking about Now as being always, I wasn't in to the idea of "starting over." If I am messing up now, won't I just mess up later?

Whatever happens will happen. Let's see how this goes.

a reply to: KnightLight

My prayer is that Armageddon is spiritual and not a physical war. I believe the metaphors associated with Armageddon can be seen from both a physical and spiritual viewpoint.

The physical metaphors explain the spiritual war that rages within.

At least that is my prayer.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I don't separate the two in my mind..
One simple reason is that a spiritual war would be fought inside of us.. That's the kingdom.
What if we are holding up the world? Rings within Rings? And the global warming thing is just a way to say it's our fault, without making it religious?

So zombie type scenario might not be far off.. And then Nuclear plants, bombs.. you know.. Ouch.

But I am hopeful like you.
And if it comes to it, I hope I die in courage, helping others.
Not in fear clinging to dust, and ash.


I havn't played EarthBound in a long time but it just hit me as it has hit me in the past, that it's about exactly this topic we have moved into.. Even the name Earth Bound is funny to me now. The Cops and many grownups are mind controlled, because they are not free thinkers.. The animals attack.. There is so much in there.. I don't even remember most of it. But it was mainly a "war in heaven" that translates into the physical as they are two expressions of the same thing.

a reply to: KnightLight

and if we must go through it..
This is my Vibe..

a reply to: KnightLight

It may be a physical war, but thier is peace in my heart. I fight for the light and can vibe along with you.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: KnightLight

I think we've destroyed this thread. Sorry OP.

Back to the thread.....

I enjoyed the Matrix analogies. And I agree we shouldn't be looking for a prophet we should be looking within ourselves.

Unfortunately it seems like the world needs a NEO to wake it up. Maybe that is what Morpheus sees. NEO is hope, and people seem desperate for a savior.

Does it even matter if NEO is a savior, or is it enough that everyone believes he is?

a reply to: Isurrender73

was not expecting this. ur thread and ur response and vibe- extremely intriguing

with all the other responses.. much respect .. to all of u :F

r-evolution I like that :p