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The History of the Red Haired Race

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posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 04:31 AM
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People with pale skin red/blonde hair are genetically less predisposed to developing such vitamin deficient conditions as ricketts in a northerly climate with less sunlight, or so I've read somewhere.

There was also a programme I saw a few years ago that undertook experiments that showed that darker skinned people are less able to cope with cold conditions than fair skinned people, being less able to perform at an optimum level. In our modern world of warm clothing, central heating, sun block and air conditioning these are less of a concern. No doubt even a few hundred years ago pale skinned europeans managed to survive extreme tropical temps as did black people in northern climes using protective clothing, regular supplies of food and heat etc but put a bunch of dark skinned hunter gatherers in a cold climate and their cave dwelling white counterparts in the savahhna with nothing more than what is around them and they are both operating with a severe disadvantage towards survival.




posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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I don't think either is "better" than the other, simply an adaptation to different climates. .

anyway, as a redhead, I think the theories of redhair starting with neandertals or the vikings is probably correct, either way its just another variation, not a race or anything like that.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Trent
Ok but you failed to answer the only question I'm really interested in. If dark skin is superior to pale skin in all climate zones and all cases than why do people have pale skin?



There's 2 1/2 schools of thought on this:

1. Other beings came to our planet, experimented on long ago humans, splicing, dicing, splicing, and made offshoots... resulting in blue-eyed, blond hair, pale skinned humans. The sun hurt them so they moved to where the sun hurt them less.

2. Pale skin is a recessive trait in the genetics of dark-skinned humans. Sooner or later pale skinned kids are gonna squirt out. Like attracts like. Pale skinned will be more attracted to other pale skinned. The sun hurts them, they move to where it hurts them less.

1/2. Almost same as #1. Human scientists theirselves did the splicing, dicing, splicing, long ago. The result ending the same in the long run.





Do you think northern European/Asian people always had pale skin? If they didn't always have pale skin what cased the change if not environmental conditions?


Europeans came from Middle East. From IRAN, and those northern middle eastern countries. One day save some dough, travel there yourself and look at the people there. Majority have dark skin. But many (in the same families) have light skin, pale skin. If they go mate with other pale skins, and their kids mate with even more pale skins, and they move to where sun hurts less, then you get tribes of people who mostly have the recessive pale skinned genes.

Asians have dark skin. Some have pale skin (but even they will tan quicker than a European if you leave them in the sun long enough.). Majority of Asians have dark skin. Hell, look at the pics of the Asians hit by the tsunami hahhh.





You actually missed the point i was making with that article which was this quote.

Think about it for a minute: if you map the skin color of human ancestors around the world, you will find an undeniable correlation between skin pigmentation and geographic relationship with the equator. The only exception to this is the Eleusian or Eskimo populations who, of course, got plenty of vitamin D through the regular consumption of fish oils, and thus did not need a skin pigmentation adaptation in order to survive.




[edit on 1-1-2005 by Trent]


And that quote is destroyed by the fact that if you go travel to areas, countires, near and around the equator, and look at the people you will see dark skinned families with some pale skinned kids. Yeh blacks producing whites. Like the case with Mariah Carey who from a biological view is white while her older sister is biologically dark skinned.

And in American history, when black families would have pale skinned offspring smuggle the parents to freedom. The offspring would "pretend" they were white. (Biologically they were white.) The famous author
Frederick Douglas in his book Life of Frederick Douglass talks about how his dark skinned mother and dark skinned father had a pale skinned girl - one of his sisters. She got tired of always saying "I'm really black" and one day just "passed for white" for good. Because biologically, dark skinned people carry the recessive gene for pale skin. Black people can and do have white kids. That answers your question:

People have pale skin, which is a recessive gene, because people who have dark skin, which is a dominate gene, carry that recessive gene. So sooner or later they'll have pale skin kids. Those kids will hook up with other pale skin kids. They'll move away to where the sun doesn't fry them, burn then, kill them. They'll move away from the equator and quickly.

If your gonna ask "Why did/are dark skinned people carrying that recessive gene in the first place?" that could be subject for a new thread. That goes into where humans came from.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by ubermunche
People with pale skin red/blonde hair are genetically less predisposed to developing such vitamin deficient conditions as ricketts in a northerly climate with less sunlight, or so I've read somewhere.


This is vs someone like a Zulu who is soo dark "they're purple". But someone like Charles Barkely, or Arsenio Hall, won't have any of these problems.


There was also a programme I saw a few years ago that undertook experiments that showed that darker skinned people are less able to cope with cold conditions than fair skinned people, being less able to perform at an optimum level.

Who conducted those experiments? "Whites" or "blacks"? How long ago did those experiements happen? In what country? It's just a few years ago that every "scientific" experiment was biased to showing dark skinned people were lower than pale skinned people. By "a few years ago" I'm saying millions of adults are alive who remember when it was normal to call dark skinned people the n---- word ALL the time.



In our modern world of warm clothing, central heating, sun block and air conditioning these are less of a concern.


It's still a major concern. Thousands of pale skinned people still die from skin cancer every year in bad proportion to dark skinned people. Millions of pale skinned people still get burned by the sun every year in bad proportion to dark skinned people.




No doubt even a few hundred years ago pale skinned europeans managed to survive extreme tropical temps as did black people in northern climes using protective clothing, regular supplies of food and heat etc but put a bunch of dark skinned hunter gatherers in a cold climate and their cave dwelling white counterparts in the savahhna with nothing more than what is around them and they are both operating with a severe disadvantage towards survival.


Your point is blown apart by the fact that dark skinned hunters gatherers had no reason to immediatly move from the equator area. The land is good. The food is good. The sun is good. The sun isn't killing them. Isn't burning their skin off. Why the ----- move to the far north where its colder, freezing, less food, and far harsher?

Their pale skinned offspring on the other hand needed to move further north away from the sun that was killing them.

Dark skinned hunter gatherer: "Man, the food here is good, the climate is good. I'm staying! Wow that sun feels nice. Ahhhhhh".

Pale skinned hunter gatherer: "Man you're right the food is good, the climate is good. I want to stay! AHHHHH my skin! AHHH its burning off! AHHHHHHH! I gotta get out of here AHHHHH! Oh man I wish I could stay AHHHH! My skin!" *runs off as far from the equator as he can until his skin stops burning from the sun.*
*Ends up in harsher climate, less food, but skin isn't burning off**STUCK living in northern, freezing, harsher, climate. No choice.*

Remember, a pale skin wouldn't even have time to make clothing to protect his skin. Sun burn is quick. And the more a pale skin gets burned, the more disabled they are! The time to cut the hide, measure it, fit it, sew it.
And yeah they might've even been ostracized by the dark skinned people who thought the pale skinned offspring had some horrible, gross, sickness. "Look at them! Their skin is burning off! Ickk! If they touch us our skin might start falling off! Ickk!"

Aaaaand.............
IF it were true dark skinned people can't perform in cold climates, what about the super-dark skinned adventurer who was one of the members of the first guys to the North and South poles?
What about dark skinned people today? Many live in Alaska, Canada, and northern Europe. You don't see them performing their jobs slowly, walking too slowly, talking too slowly, on and on.
What about those dark skinned Alaskin injuns? You don't see them performing too slowly. They'd be dead if they did. Since they were there for thousands of years.

[edit on 7-1-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

[edit on 7-1-2005 by OpenSecret2012]



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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I am a red hair man. Hummmm, kings ruled because of hair color. Where is my cut in the treasures? Ok everyone antie up and give the king his dues that would cost each of you about 5 dollars, plus tax, sin tax, and late fees with application fees. Hummmmm, that will be 12.59 you owe me each. I do thank you in advance for your support of the matter, please pay by check, credit card, cashier check, or two cattle. Thank you for shopping at Red head King money pit. Thank you again. We do have a payment plan.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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Not too long ago I had to get some blood work done.
As the nurse was preparing me for the needle I told her it takes many attempts to get a vain to draw blood from. A few years ago I had pneumonia and it took 3 nurses 10 tries total to stick me with a needle for the I.V.
Anyway she told me that in her 15 years experience in nursing red heads always give her trouble for getting a good vain.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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There does seem to be a large number of Scots and Irish people with red hair, though I'd be the first to agree it's not exclusive....

If the likelyhood of differing genetic characteristics is not specific how do you account for higher concentrations of attributes in a region?



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 02:41 AM
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From what Ive read even hitler made an error with the aryan race
Aryans were Indo-European people that lived in western Asia discounting the region known as the middle east.
Fair would be rare as most who still live in this region today are not.
being light or dark has no bearing in the search for superiority.
Having a greater resistance to the sun was not important when you consider up until recently we died much earlier and in most cases dying for other reasons such as infection would have happened before cancer kicked in
the meaning of life is to reproduce, not live longest thats a modern concept.
Being able to survive in water is also important, needing it for life and living near it
I dont know who first mastered the art of swimming but have a look in the olympic pool today.
Running also important once again look at the olympics.

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Dan West]



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
Not too long ago I had to get some blood work done.
As the nurse was preparing me for the needle I told her it takes many attempts to get a vain to draw blood from. A few years ago I had pneumonia and it took 3 nurses 10 tries total to stick me with a needle for the I.V.
Anyway she told me that in her 15 years experience in nursing red heads always give her trouble for getting a good vain.


LOL!
In reality, it is how in shape you are that determines how easy it is for them to "find a vein". A bodybuilder for example would be a Nurse's wet dream come true. A nurse could find a bodybuilder's vein while wearing a blindfold. LOL!

When I was in the hospital the Nurse commented on how in shape I was because of how little work it was for her to find a vein. I have decently muscular arms and thus my veins are easily visible.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dan West
From what Ive read even hitler made an error with the aryan race
Aryans were Indo-European people that lived in western Asia discounting the region known as the middle east.
Fair would be rare as most who still live in this region today are not.
being light or dark has no bearing in the search for superiority.



Actually, Hitler, Himmler, and the rest of their crew never ever believed in the "Aryan Race" propaganda. Hitler took courses, and dilligently studied, how to be a far more effective speaker, and how to get the majority to unite behind him. In other words, how to master the art of propaganda like no one had ever done before:

Consolidated EARLY history, and rest of history, of Hitler

The biggest, most blatant proof that Hitler, and the rest of his crew, did not believe in the "Blond, Blue eyed" supremacy is the very symbol of the Nazi Party - the swastika. Before the Nazi Party was created, Hitler, Himmler, and some others, went to Tibet, India, and the middle east, and studied ..... studied under dark-skinned instructors. The swastika is a very ancient middle eastern symbol. It is thousands of years old. There are many middle eastern temples covered from celing to floor with swastikas. It means good luck. Or that God is with you. Hitler adopted it as a way of saying God is on his side. He has good luck.

Many middle easterners, dark skinned middle easterners, black skinned middle easterners, to this very day wear swastikas on amulets around their wrists, ankles, and necks. And sometimes as pins on their cloths.


Nazi scientists later informed Hitler that there is one race the human race. That a blond haired, blue eyed "aryan" can have the exact same blood type as a dark skinned Zulu. Hitler then on a whim decided which blood type was the "pure" blood type. And proceed to force Germans with certain blood types to have sex with each other. He also started importing non-Germans who had certain blood types. Having them lead German armies even though German was not their first language! Choosing them over blond blue eyed German Nazis, because those Nazi Germans did not have a certain blood type. (one of the main reasons Germany lost. :down




Having a greater resistance to the sun was not important when you consider up until recently we died much earlier and in most cases dying for other reasons such as infection would have happened before cancer kicked in
the meaning of life is to reproduce, not live longest thats a modern concept.
Being able to survive in water is also important, needing it for life and living near it


Know what? You bring up a NICE point! I applaude you! You are 100% right! Most people were lucky to make it past age 14. Age 25 was considered old. Anyone who made it to age 35 was an elder. There were certain time periods in which the majority of deaths was from infections (plagues). But the majority of deaths was from constant warfare.

You are right, men existed to fight and reproduce. Women existed to reproduce. Not to try living to be 70, 80, etc...




I dont know who first mastered the art of swimming but have a look in the olympic pool today.
Running also important once again look at the olympics.

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Dan West]


Swimming is a natural instinct. People who cannot swim actually unlearn their natural instinct to swim. Throw a baby into a pool and they will instantly, instinctivly swim. It s roughly between age 1-4 that people lose the swimming instinct. Unless the parents keep it going.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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I've gone over this thread a little hastily but it seems that so far no one has mentioned the Khazars, a nomadic, Turko-Finnish, reddish-haired people that came out of the Caucasus Mountains in the 2nd Century A.D. and eventually, in the 8th, settled down in what is now the Ukraine and Southern Russia. There they decided to put aside their pagan beliefs and adopt one of the 3 monotheistic religions, Judaism, rather than any of the other 2 because that would have placed them under the influence of one of the 2 superpowers of that time, Christian Byzantium and Islam (Arabs).

In his book titled The Thirteenth Tribe, Arthur Koestler explains that the Ashkenazim, the Eastern European Jews, are to a large extent descendants of these Khazars, which is why there are so many red-haired people in this particular group of Jews, whereas the Sephardim, the Jews from the regions that the Arabs conquered (Middle East, North Africa, Southern Spain), would seem to be descendants of the original Semitic stock, which might have looked somewhat like the figures one sees on the Assyrian bas-reliefs (curly hair, etc.).

It was the East European Jews who created the Zionist movement and organized the flow of emigrants to Palestine, so now some people say that the present situation in Israel can be described as a mostly non-Semitic people, with a non-Semitic language, Yiddish, trying to kick out a Semitic people, the Palestinians, that speak a Semitic language, Arabic.

What does all this have to do with the Nephilim? Not for me to answer. Sorry!



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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as a red-head married to a red-head with a red-headed daughter, sister-in-law and niece, I have to say I'm puzzled by many ideas put forth in this thread, the first being that there is no such thing as a red-haired race


My veins are easy to "pop" with a few pumps of the wrist, and any dermatologist will tell you dark and light skinned people have just as many problems.


My grandmother always told me I got the red hair from the vikings, as she was norwegian, and had red-hair.

Most true Irish have raven-black or dark brunette hair.


I'm also 6'6" tall and weigh 290 lbs, does that make me a red-haired Giant ?
:


Uma

posted on May, 1 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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The "myth" of red haired people having bad tempers, is likely due to the harassment that some red haired people are sujected to due to their different hair color. If someone calls you demon-spawn son of Cain long enough, you're likely to get testy. Right?

Also, I would agree that red hair may come from the Norse, as many of them moved to Ireland in the middle ages looking for a place to settle down, and to have friendly ports available to them. However, there certainly were stories of many Celts and Gaels with red hair, even before then, so there must have been some redheads included in the migration to what are now England, Scotland, Ireland and Norway.

Norse legends certainly do give red hair as an attribute of some of their gods, such as Thor, who was described as red-bearded. Also they had many stories of red haired heroes. Many of these stories are older than the Viking raids on Ireland, so it seems reasonable that the Norse may have brought genes with them for both blonde and red hair when they moved north and settled in Scandinavia.

Also, I have heard of a rumor that there was originally a race of people in what is now Germany that were tall (6'6" for men, 6' for women), fierce fighters and mainly red haired (with some blondes). If anyone has come across any ancient literature or scientific research about this, please speak up. So much of what is on the web is not very reliable.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Ok, if hair is a race then the Blonde Race shouldn't exist, nothing that bimbo infested should have survived.


Anyways, doubt this is true, as said. Nothing Impossible, but some things are highly improbable.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Red hair is also sometime associated with inbreeding. Many royal families used to have inter family marriages. You also see a lot of red hair in Quaker and Huterite colonies where there is not enough outbreeding.

That is not to say that all red haired people are a product of inbreeding, but red hair is a homozygous recessive allele that is usually masked by dominant alleles acquired by outbreeding. It would explain why perhaps kings had higher percentage of red hair than in the general population with random mating where the chances of inheriting a rare, recessive trait is only like 4%.

Some also believe that redhair, particularly in Ireland, Scottland, and Scandinavia was a result of poor nutrition.


[edit on 1-5-2005 by Hajduk]


Uma

posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Hm, many royal families had many red haired ancestors, so they would have ended up with some redheads whether they are inbred or not.

Red hair is caused by haveing more Phaeomelanin than Eumelanin, and related to a mutation called the melanocortin 1 receptor, which leads to pale skin that freckles.

If you are saying that malnutrition caused red hair, why didn't it go away with proper nutrition? I haven't seen any scientific evidence that malnutrition caused the mutation that led to red hair either. If you have a link to an article I'd like to read it.

BTW, I saw a family at the supermarket, asian mom, redhaired dad, and two kids one with red hair and asian features, the other with auburn hair and asian features. I was stunned.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Leading Lady
LOL! Interesting topic! I have reddish blonde hair!
Also, I hope stinker thinker was joking! On a survival level of the human species, the more melanin produced the better which makes darker skin better which is why it's dominent and always dominates the lighter shades.


But melanin also has biological costs associated with it. Energy and resources have to diverted to melanin production, and like someone else said, melanin interferes with vitamin D adsorption. Plus, the offspring from a light skinned and dark skinned person is usually an inbetween shade. Look at mulatto people of the Caribean and southern U.S. I'm not talking about individuals since the effects of natural selection are only observable at the population scale, but over time, the populations display a light brown skin colour.

Like it was already mentioned, there are no "superior" traits. It is all relative to the environment. If the ozone layers continues to deplete, dark skinned people will have an advantage, but is smog, volcanic ash, or a nuclear winter limit the amount of sunlight, light skinned people will have a survival advantage.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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So blue' eyes happened because of lack of vitamin D the europeans failed to consume? So that's why the eskimo's kept dark eyes because of the vitmin's in the fish?



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Hajduk
Red hair is also sometime associated with inbreeding. Many royal families used to have inter family marriages. You also see a lot of red hair in Quaker and Huterite colonies where there is not enough outbreeding.

That is not to say that all red haired people are a product of inbreeding, but red hair is a homozygous recessive allele that is usually masked by dominant alleles acquired by outbreeding. It would explain why perhaps kings had higher percentage of red hair than in the general population with random mating where the chances of inheriting a rare, recessive trait is only like 4%.


some also believe that redhair, particularly in Ireland, Scottland, and Scandinavia was a result of poor nutrition.


[edit on 1-5-2005 by Hajduk]



the "superior" racist non sense in this thread is nauseating.......talk about ignorance...myself being a red-head married to a red- head with a red head daughter, grandmother and sister in law, this thread is very interesting to me. my mother in law has traced her heritage to a castle in scotland, not true blue blood or royalty, but along the lines of a noble.....my grandmother always told me the vikings gave the red hair to the irish and scottish, its just a noticable trait because you can't hide it ! There are dozens of similar triats, they just aren't as obvious.

and yes, redheads are wild in bed



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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I think neanderthals might have actually been the ancestors of africans. Look at the facial reconstruction and features of a black person. Thick brow and a nose that resembles the neaderthals, and large lips, also seen in neanderthals.

I agree that red hair is not a race unto itself rather a trait of a race, Caucasians.
There are many myths about red-haired people, even contemporary myths.
For example red-haired women are supposed to be passionate.





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