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This is what I have been saying about "path info AVAILABILTY". It doesn't matter if you look which path it actually took, what matters is the AVAILABILITY of such info.
All you would need to do is set up a simple double slit experiment, place a detector at the slits to collect which-path information, but set it to delete the information before we actually look at the pattern produced.
If we don't delete the which-patch information until after it has travelled though the slits
The delayed-choice quantum eraser seems to confirm back solving is real because the result at D0 is dictated by what the ilder photon does at a later point in time.
One must question why the delayed-choice quantum eraser implies retrocausal activity and yet we cannot observe it in simple experiments like the double-slit setup I just mentioned; our decision to delete the which-path information after the pattern has been created (but not observed) doesn't impact what the pattern will be.
Furthermore, experiments like the quantum eraser also show that non-conscious objects can collapse the wave-function,
If you ask me there's clearly something we aren't quite grasping about quantum mechanics.
This is exactly what the Eraser part of these experiments does........
There is no path info before it has travelled through any slits......
But it does, that's just it.
No they show it is the availability of info.
Yes, the role of the conscious observer.
originally posted by: HotMale
When does it not take both paths?
particles are presented with a choice.
subject these particles to an unnatural environment that we see an inner mechanism at work
something at work behind the scenes that in this case is making sure that reality is "correct" in a set up that provides reality with the option of not being "correct".
The "observervation" can be made by anything interacting with the experiment, no consciousness is needed by any of the equipment to play the role of "observer". See table below where most interpretations of quantum mechanics say the observer plays no role.
originally posted by: HotMale
When you observe and the path info is available. It can't interfere with itself if there is proof that it took one of the paths.
So knowing all this, how can you still deny the role of the observer?
I agree there is some confusion and this is why I pointed out people talking about wave function collapse are presuming Copenhagen and we don't know that interpretation to be correct. There is no wave function collapse with Everett interpretation nor with numerous other interpretations.
originally posted by: dragonridr
Now I see several on here are confusing to diffrent theories
-Copenhagen interpretation
-The other idea was first put forward by Hugh Everett in 1957.
Now on here people have been freely mixing these two versions. ..The OP is clearly talking about the many world's interpretation with the explination of decoherence.
The most common interpretations are summarized in the table below. The values shown in the cells of the table are not without controversy, for the precise meanings of some of the concepts involved are unclear and, in fact, are themselves at the center of the controversy surrounding the given interpretation.
No experimental evidence exists that distinguishes among these interpretations. To that extent, the physical theory stands, and is consistent with itself and with reality; difficulties arise only when one attempts to "interpret" the theory. Nevertheless, designing experiments which would test the various interpretations is the subject of active research.
What about the moment of conception, when one sperm joins with the egg thus determining if the baby will be a boy or a girl? Before that moment there were at least three probabilities, for conceiving a boy, a girl, or not conceiving. I don't see what free will has to do with that, well maybe free will could apply to reasons for not conceiving but test tube babies aside, it has little to do with the gender of the baby.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Arbitrageur
Probability doesnt exist.
Only in the mind (or on paper) of a consciousness, can probability exist.
"I would like to talk about a very serious embarrassment," said Mario Livio, a proclaimed scientist and author, at a panel at the World Science Festival in New York City last month.
The embarrassment Livio referred to is sometimes known as the vacuum catastrophe. Truly empty space, sucked dry of any air or particles, still has an inherent energy to it, according to observations, Livio said. But when scientists use theories of quantum mechanics to try and calculate this vacuum energy, their results differ from the measured results by about 120 orders of magnitude, or the number 1 followed by 120 zeros.
Priyamvada Natarajan, a professor of astronomy and physics at Yale University who studies exotic matter in the universe, emphasized how the deck seems stacked against a universe that is hospitable to life.
"The fact is that you need about six numbers to describe all the properties of our universe — the past, present, future. And we can measure [those numbers] to varying degrees of accuracy. And if any of these numbers actually departed even very slightly from what we measure them to be, then life would not have been possible," Natarajan said. "So there's a real fine tuning problem. […] Things have to be just so to have the universe that we have."
The multiverse explanation for the vacuum energy discrepancy is an example of something called the anthropic principle, Frieman said. This philosophical argument is somewhat circular, and essentially states that the rise of sentient beings in this universe only seems remarkable because sentient beings are there to observe it. Beyond that, the principle dismisses the search for a reason why this universe was tuned to host life.
"My colleagues and I, we call it the 'A' word," Frieman said. "And [it] may be the explanation for why the vacuum energy is so small. To my mind though, the problem with that approach is that it diverts you from looking for physics-based approaches to problems."
There are examples in the history of science where people have assumed an anthropic approach to a problem, but then found a physical explanation.
"I think even [Stephen] Hawking himself called it a 'council of despair,'" Frieman said. "Because basically you're saying we're never going to figure out a physical explanation for this."
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
What about the moment of conception, when one sperm joins with the egg thus determining if the baby will be a boy or a girl? Before that moment there were at least three probabilities, for conceiving a boy, a girl, or not conceiving. I don't see what free will has to do with that, well maybe free will could apply to reasons for not conceiving but test tube babies aside, it has little to do with the gender of the baby.
originally posted by: neoholographic
It's another nail in the coffin of materialist view of reality
originally posted by: neoholographic
What in the world does this mean????
You don't understand decoherence because it's part of the various interpretations.
originally posted by: neoholographic
You listed different interpretations and that's exactly my point. There wouldn't be the need for different interpretations if Decoherence could explain the measurement problem. There wouldn't be the need for different interpretations if materialism could explain fine tuning of the universe.
I already provided it, the 8 billion years the universe existed before the Earth existed.
Like I said, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE that the universe can exist independent of consciousness. If there is this scientific evidence, let's see it.