MH17 tragedy witnesses refute Russia theory of Ukrainian Buk missiles

Well it seems we have some folks who are blowing holes in Russia's theory about Ukraine shooting down MH 17.

Residents in the village of Zaroshchenske have refuted claims by Russian BUK missile system manufacturer Almaz-Antey that Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was shot down from government-controlled territory.

uatoday.tv...

And more here...

www.novayagazeta.ru...

So now we have this from RUssia and their BUK manufacturer...

The manufacturer's investigation and comparative analysis of shrapnel revealed the missile to most likely be a Buk-M1 missile, which is used by the Ukrainian military, and fired from an area south of the village of Zaroshenskoye, territory controlled by the Ukrainian military at the time.

sputniknews.com...

Now if your going to make accusations about a village...wouldn't it be smart to at least try and pay a witness to back the claim, is Russia slipping up because nobody backs their claims.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I heard that theory, but they went for the daily double this time they currently have two positions on how MH 17 was downed. ( buk missile and Ukrainian fighter )

I swear it's getting really hard to keep up with the Russian versions . Does anybody know exactly how many theories they have put out so far . Honestly I have lost count .

Meanwhile in the west the claims have not changed since day one that should tell everyone something .

As time passes and evidence emerges it's hard to say exactly how and what went down . The main report is still in limbo it seems so we will have to wait ,probably for the edited version like the 911 report .the 28 pages that is . Any how here is a vid of a guy that loaded munitions on the su25 and he has some interesting things to say /

MH 17 Case and testimony of the main witness | Eng Subs

a reply to: the2ofusr1

No there isn't .



This is a 30 mm cannon shell fired at an aircraft .............





This is recovered wreckage from MH 17 ................









Do you notice any difference?


I am not saying I'm positive The rebels shot it down . But I am saying I am positive it wasn't a SU 25 with a 30 mm cannon .

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I heard that theory, but they went for the daily double this time they currently have two positions on how MH 17 was downed. ( buk missile and Ukrainian fighter )

I swear it's getting really hard to keep up with the Russian versions . Does anybody know exactly how many theories they have put out so far . Honestly I have lost count .

Meanwhile in the west the claims have not changed since day one that should tell everyone something .

I can understand people's frustration, but if it is down to a ground missile, the Dutch should be able to back engineer, what the plane was doing, how fast it was going, it's course, the actual damage caused and the trajectory of the missile in relation to the aircraft, which must have some limitations vis sa vis the damage caused which appears to indicate (1) a missile and (2) a fan effect proximity exploding missile, which is basically a deadly shotgun but, The company that makes the missile says 3.5 metres from the target would be the detonation point, so again the Dutch need to work out how much fan effect there would be at that range given the speed of the missile, the speed of the plane, and the explosive artifacts found and where. Now, the pictures of the cockpit remains are pretty clear if they are indeed that of MH17, they show that the right hand side of the cockpit glass is intact, as much of the lower half is, while mortal damage was indicated to the left hand side, and also to the roof of the plane, aft of the cockpit. So this is what the Russians are saying, but it's up to the Dutch investigators to take account with whatever they have, whether yay or nay as to what the Russians are saying, while it's not even clear if the Dutch are taking into account what the Russians are saying, there is "no informations" about that. It's a tough undertaking though.

a reply to: smurfy

So now were back on Russian version number one for this week .

Of course it's not clear what the Dutch investigators are doing the report is not due until October .

That is the reason there is " no informations". What bothers me the most is all the different information Russia is putting out . It's almost like they're playing pick a conspiracy any conspiracy . I guess they figure if they throw enough Versions out maybe everybody will believe one .

a reply to: Greathouse

I guess they figure if they throw enough Versions out maybe everybody will believe one .

They hope enough get out there maybe something will catch on, but then all that does is make people question the veracity of their claims.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Exactly , it gives the appearance of a suspect repeatedly changing their story to the police or court .

It's likely to take a while, you would want to pretty sure as you could be working on the document that starts WW3.

Of course, if the truth has that potential, you may not hear the truth.

a reply to: Greathouse

The guy in the vid claimed that he loaded a r30 or r40 something air to air missal on the only su25 to return ...He said the other 2 got shot down .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

My bad it's hard to keep up the first version was it was strafed by a Ukrainian SU-25. So now they're claiming it was done by a air to air missiles ?

I apologize I should really check these versions hourly instead of daily .

a reply to: Greathouse

The aircraft shootdown has been pushed and debunked several times on this site as well as other media sites. What is interesting is how Russia talked about the SU25 theory again and all of a sudden people on here are pushing it.


Russia has as many excuses for MH17 as they do for their invasion / occupation of Crimea.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Greathouse

The aircraft shootdown has been pushed and debunked several times on this site as well as other media sites. What is interesting is how Russia talked about the SU25 theory again and all of a sudden people on here are pushing it.


Russia has as many excuses for MH17 as they do for their invasion / occupation of Crimea.

This is not a media site, unless you know different. I am hearing, and seeing too much waffle, apart from one decent post. The point of my previous post is that the makers of the Buk systems have made their analysis. Shoot that down, and if not able too, close thy gub. Geez, I hate it that some piss around with dead people.

a reply to: smurfy

Yup - its been debunked.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: the2ofusr1

No there isn't .



This is a 30 mm cannon shell fired at an aircraft .............

This is recovered wreckage from MH 17 ................

Do you notice any difference?


I am not saying I'm positive The rebels shot it down . But I am saying I am positive it wasn't a SU 25 with a 30 mm cannon .

I'm not claiming that an aircraft shot it down, but you guys have this rather dishonest habit of always showing the results of HE ammunition. Not all 30mm rounds are explosive you know.

a reply to: Flatcoat

but you guys have this rather dishonest habit of always showing the results of HE ammunition. Not all 30mm rounds are explosive you know.

The kind you shoot aircraft down with are. The are called dual-purpose high explosive . What do you think they're going to use depleted uranium penetrators ? Lol ( warning to respond to this is a trap )


But you like I were a couple stories behind in the reports out of Russia . Here I'll give you an update on this week .

A Russian armies manufacture said it was shot down by a Buk.

A couple days later the Russians released another version that claimed MH17 was shot down by the SU 25 with a air to air missile .

That contradicts the earlier story that it was strafed by a SU 25 and both of those stories in fact contradict the arms manufacturers story .


Do please try and keep up. It's kind of easy to understand once you get the hang of it .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

So two Ukrainian jets were shot down over rebel territory and the rebels didn't mention anything about it?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: the2ofusr1

So two Ukrainian jets were shot down over rebel territory and the rebels didn't mention anything about it?

Oh they mentioned the fact they shot down a civilian airliner. They were on tape asking moscow for instructions. Even posted it online bragging until they realised it was a civilian airline. They know exactly who did it at this point problem is what to do next. A Russian crew blew up a civilian airline. If your the Dutch what do you do?? Can't declare war on Russia. But the people are going to demand they do something. So being the Dutch government and you know Russia killed those passengers what options do you have??

This is the problem they are facing they can take it to a legal dispute sue Russia but frankly Russia will be bankrupt before they collect. They can issue international warrants for the crew and ask for extradition that isnt going to happen. So basically once this comes out in October all the Dutch government can do is look useless. Not a position they are in any hurry to be in.

a reply to: Xcalibur254 found this also .7mei.nl...

M: And so what happened next?
L: The fighting started. I heard SUs flying over the surface, hitting Torez and Shakhtersk. And than I saw… The fighter jets were actually three. And later I saw that one jet sharply accelerated in that direction [pointing with his arm] to the north and went up.

M: How did the sky look? Was it cloudy or sunny? How was the weather?
L: It was very sunny and a bit cloudy. Weakly cloudy, I would say 4 [out of 10] for clouds. Anyway, it is all subjective, but visibility was perfect. I saw the silhouette of this rook (fighter jet) with my monoculars as I can see my own fingers. And when it accelerated, I heard the roar of turbines and it sharply went up. After some time I heard 3 claps:

bah-bah—bah (the last one followed after some time).

M: So you heard 3 claps?
L: Yes, bah-bah—bah, short, exactly as I am saying. The last one after some time. I saw the plane [MH-17] started to crash. But! the central part started falling in that direction [showing with his arm], in the direction of Grabovo. The cockpit was separated, as well as one wing with a turbine and tale. Everything else was intact.

eta this is another vid that mentions 2 parachute's or something to that effect rutube.ru...