MH17 tragedy witnesses refute Russia theory of Ukrainian Buk missiles

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: smurfy

Yup - its been debunked.

Do you mean the Russian governments overall version or the technical report from the company that builds the BUK. It's the all important technical report I refer to. I have heard no one discuss that as yet.

a reply to: smurfy

Russia again fakes evidence on MH17 crash - Bellingcat experts

Claims by representatives of Russian military concern Almaz-Antey that a Ukrainian missile shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 in July last year are untrue, according to an analysis of experts from fact-checking project Bellingcat, news Web site Meduza has reported.

Bellingcat founder Eliot Higgins said that the MH17 was destroyed by a Buk missile system that was transported through the territory controlled by the separatists in a truck on July 17 and 18.

"Apparently, the anti-aircraft missile system was equipped with 9M38M1 missiles, so we agree that this report refers to the same [type pf missile]. As for the trajectory of the missile, we rely on our research, according to which the launch site was south of Snizhne, which is different from the place indicated by Almaz-Antey" Higgins said.

"I am convinced that the experts of Almaz-Antey are lying about the launch site. That is why they made a proposal to recreate the crash of the aircraft, realizing that no one would agree to this. After all, who wants to buy an airplane that is just going to be shot down?" the Bellingcat founder added.

Journalists previously noted that the presentation by Almaz-Antey repeated almost verbatim a report leaked by “Russian engineers” to Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta about a month ago. It included pictures provided by the Russian Defense Ministry indicating that the launch was from the village of Zaroschenske.

Shortly before the press conference of Almaz-Antey, Bellingcat released its own report, which indicated that those pictures were fake.

The pictures were later removed from the Almaz-Antey report.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

So two Ukrainian jets were shot down over rebel territory and the rebels didn't mention anything about it?

Or shot them down as they did in previous days.

a reply to: smurfy

Do you mean the Russian governments overall version or the technical report from the company that builds the BUK.

They are pretty much the same as they both try to make the accusation that Ukraine did it from Ukrainian gov't held land...but they must not have thought the villagers would talk.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I think the Kremlin / Russian Rebels are not comprehending the fact that its not the 1980s anymore and that claims from Russia / Russian rebels aren't going to be taken at face value. People are going to follow up on claims - As Reagan said "Trust but verify".

They aren't use to people challenging the government line and it very much shows why Russia is in the mess its in.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They aren't use to people challenging the government line and it very much shows why Russia is in the mess its in.

What get's me is why didn't they buy at least one witness in the village?

They must really have to work tight these days...no money for fake witnesses.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: the2ofusr1

So two Ukrainian jets were shot down over rebel territory and the rebels didn't mention anything about it?

So the rebels WERE indeed shooting down planes that day? 3 fighter planes were in the air, 3 planes were shot down, but only 2 by rebels? This hilarious story actually makes the rebels/Russia FAR more likely the culprit.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Because putin and his kronies have a mindset that what worked in the 1980s works now when in reality it doesn't. It shows how out of touch Putins government is and demonstrates further that they don't understand how independent media and freedom of thought works.

They truly believe people should take what they say at face value. The reason they go after anyone that challenges them further demonstrates the point im making.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Don't forget some o f those Ukrainian jets that were shot down were shot down by Russian fighter jets.

Two Ukrainian fighter jets shot down near MH17 crash site

Russian Jets Shot Down Ukrainian Warplane: Kiev

Why is this argument even occurring you have Igor Strelkov admit they shot it down in his post. Then we have audio of him telling his russian handlers they made a mistake and shot down a civilian airliner. What more proof do you really need we have a confession from the sepratists. Or whatever we all calling the russian troops now a days.
www.forbes.com...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

As time passes and evidence emerges it's hard to say exactly how and what went down . The main report is still in limbo it seems so we will have to wait ,probably for the edited version like the 911 report .the 28 pages that is . Any how here is a vid of a guy that loaded munitions on the su25 and he has some interesting things to say /

That is exactly the Russian strategy here. They have released so much false and deliberately contradictory "information" into the blogosphere that conspiracy theorists will always be able to ask: "But what about...?" Russian propagandists routinely recite the litany of supposed "conspiracies" and "false flags." This activates the connect the unconnected dots neural pathways of conspiracy theorists. Maybe the CIA did it, like they did 911....

I hope they are proud of themselves, they have guaranteed that the self evident truth of the situation will never be accepted by some people, and this topic will continue to be debated on these boards for years.

a reply to: DJW001

Do you believe the official 911 report ? Do you still believe all the original Govt. reports about the differing wars the US has engaged in the past ? Do you stand behind the State Dept's way of using social media to report the news or answer questions at the Press briefings ? It's normal for people to try and understand what may have just happened so when something goes down the first stories that come out are usually not consistent with the evidence as it gets collected and examined . Do you remember how quickly the 911 story was given to us over the 24/7 news cycle and how quickly they came up with prof . Imagine finding a drivers licence to one of the hijackers in the rubble of 911 the same day it happened . Yah sure . At least Russia took a few days to release what they had to the public but where is the US info ? Where are their satellite pics ? Why have they been using Google and hacks to give to the public questionable if not completely fabricated stories ? Ill tell you why ,it's because that is all they have and it has to fit the Putin bad narrative .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

within the first 24 hours Russia blamed Ukraine for MH17 and then edited their version of Wikipedia to denote Ukraine was behind it. Where was their evidence then? Every theory Russia has since pushed has been supported by false information made up by Russia.

Secondly what does 9/11 have to do with the topic of this thread?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Secondly what does 9/11 have to do with the topic of this thread?

Much in the way things become considered as truth in some circles .

within the first 24 hours Russia blamed Ukraine for MH17 and then edited their version of Wikipedia to denote Ukraine was behind it

It happened over Ukraine and they had the ability to . Editing Wiki is funny in a sense as for it to have the story up within 24 hours is amazing as there was not much out other then msm and bloggers trying to report it . The first I had read was that the rebels did it .Next it was Putin .That was well before Russia released their radar stuff and the Italian air traffic controller jumping into the freay .

Stll waiting for the black box data though . Usually only takes a short time for that but in this case it's taking a long time .I suspect that if it was the rebels or the Russians it would have been splashed all over the msm and the web by now .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The reason for the delay is the criminal investigation. I am not sure what country you are from but in the west the criminal justice system does not just release all information / evidence to the public, especially when its a criminal investigation. It can adversely affect any prosecutions - up to and including the inability to actually prosecute.

If it is the rebel or the Russians or the Ukrainians or even Martians no, they would not splash that info around the world. When investigating a crime you don't release your evidence to the media and allow those individuals involved the ability to destroy any evidence they overlooked.

Secondly - something to consider. Russia behavior and push for information to be released could be done to get information on the investigation and to see where its being focused. The info Russia keeps demanding be released could give them information to cover up rebel or Russian involvement by focusing on areas the Russians may have overlooked. I single out Russia because this far they are the ones who keep pushing for all info to be released.

As for 9/11 can we at least remain on topic. There are plenty of 9/11 / The US is evil threads already up and going.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Only relevant data from the recorders is released. There's nothing relevant to who fired at them in the recorder. The investigators already said there were no technical problems found, prior to a sudden explosion ending the recorder data.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well there you go .. I was unaware that they had released that info . There are sill lots of dot's that would have to be connected to know the truth of the matter . I sometimes have a problem when Prosecutors are tasked with finding a party guilty of a crime that they not have committed . They are the ones that get to pick and choose the evidence and write the narrative . Lots of people get wrongly convicted on fabricated evidence at least in the west they do . I suspect it happens or can happen anywhere .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

That's one of the problems with how many European nations investigate aircraft disasters. Their version of the NTSB investigates what happened, while a prosecutor determines who did it and if charges ate necessary.

That means that regardless of what the cause is, if the prosecutor determines someone is to blame, they're going to get charged, and mentioned as at least part of the cause.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I think the Kremlin / Russian Rebels are not comprehending the fact that its not the 1980s anymore and that claims from Russia / Russian rebels aren't going to be taken at face value. People are going to follow up on claims - As Reagan said "Trust but verify".

There is a official investigation going on to determine the facts .So far there has been theories and one of them may be correct but it could be possible that the truth when it does get published mat be something different . None of the theories have all the facts and some facts seem to contradict each other . Time will tell us once all the info and witnesses have had their input . Who knows maybe there is a piece of evidence that would clearly show or say what happened .

The Nuland phone conversation was the smoking gun as far as the coup is concerned for me . All the hand waving ,misinformation and disinformation can't change that for me . Could be someone has that smoking gun and is waiting to present it in a formal way when the time is right .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

None of the theories have all the facts and some facts seem to contradict each other .

By definition, facts cannot contradict each other. If a theory contradicts itself, it is not a very good theory, if a theory is contradicted by facts, it is false. Every claim made by the Russian media are self contradictory and unsupported by facts.