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Ukraine stepping up attacks on separatists BECAUSE voting to remove sanctions happening soon.

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posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Nowornevertill




People in Ukraine or people in Middle East dying thanks to US foreign policy and ISIS


I am sure russian people are dying thanks to Putin's foreign policy. Ukraininan people are dying, polish people are dying, lithuanians, estionians, georgians... I know Putin is wise man because he perfectly know the international law. And Law is a Law. But I am very far from justifying Putin or Obama.. the same kind of puppet




posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
Is it also worthwhile to point out that many Ukrainians were fighting on the side of the Nazis then too?


In deed, that is historical fact. Yet the Stalin engineered famine that killed many millions (up to 12 million) Ukrainians known as the Holodomor, happened well before the Nazis, so your statement is irrelevant. One can only sympathise with the Ukrainians having to choose between the genocidal Stalin and the genocidal Hitler. Perversely, on the scales of misery and death Stalin has a weightier claim for fame, as many in the ex-Soviet Union can attest.

and...


originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
Yea no #. thanks for reinforcing my statement. Russia had what they needed in Crimea, their assets were threatened so they reacted.


Russia had long leases on the naval bases and as you know, there was no threat. If you think that's a valid excuse for the invasion of someone else's sovereign territory then you are on another planet. And no, I was not reinforcing your statement which was wrong as you stated Russia leased Crimea, which they did not.
edit on 5/6/2015 by paraphi because: sorting my apostrophes



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Okay. Then what about Chechnya? What are the estimates for that? About a million. Funny how the Chechens were also fighting for their independence. Do you approve of Russia's actions to regain control of that area?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Nowornevertill

It's gonna take the US a long time to catch up to Russia's body count. What was it? 20 million Russians under Stalin alone?


The USA is doing its best to catch up. After taking out a few million yellow faces it's turned to the brown faces now and the tally is ratcheting up. Also they seem to be stampeeding on the home bound straight with the towel head tally mounting fast


CHina has killed 70 million of its own people over the past. Also there has not been millions of "brown skin people killed in the med by the US. its below 600,000(accidental/insurgent/) killed.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

How was there no threat, if Crimea was part of eu and NATO you think they would alow Russia to have military bases there...... like what dude? Are you ducking joking?

I never claimed they leased Crimea I said they had Crimea. I'll be more specific next time and say they had what they needed in Crimea. And keep crying about Stalin, I don't care. Its not really important what Stalin did, just as it isn't important in relation to Merkel what Hitler did. What do they call that? A red herring? straw man?. You would probably know.


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Love when you guys can't argue the point so bring up some other shot. Stalin chenya! Anything to get away from the point. But I suppose I'm the dummy for responding to this none sense.

The Chechens invaded Russia. So do I support Russians fighting back against an enemy? Idanno. Jesus said not too. They didn't gain any control over Chechnya. Chechnya has their own laws and constitution. The Russians are there because the Chechens ask them to be there to conduct anti terror operations. And where do you get that the death toll is over a million. Last time I checked it wasn't even a hundred thousand.


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

You're right I was way off on the casualty count. I don't know why 1 million stick out in my mind. That said how was it an invasion? The democratically elected president declared their independence and the majority of Chechens agreed with it. At least in that case the independence was declared by an elected official. The LPR and DPR juntas were established by neo-Nazis from Russia.

Also I think bringing up Stalin is definitely on topic. It illustrates the torment the former SSRs suffered under Russian rule and justifies why they are so eager to distance themselves from modern Russia. Especially with Putin acting like a Stalin wannabe. Plus it explains why there are such large ethnic Russian populations in these areas. Do you really think the Crimea referendum would have passed (assuming the results were even legit to begin with) if the native Tatars hadn't been driven out/killed under the Soviets?



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Because modern Russia has committed genocide and starved people on purpose. Oh wait that's the opposite of what's happened. And putin inherited the Chechen conflict, chenya invaded while he was in office. He fought that war then befriended Chechnya, pumped them full of money to rebuild, and let them keep their sovereignty while becoming a part of the Russian federation. Russia doesn't start wars, she ducking ends them. And she will end this one as well.

Well they started their war in Afghanistan, and rightfully they got their asses handed to them.


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
And keep crying about Stalin, I don't care.


Yes Stalin was a bit off-topic, but I felt it necessary to add some accuracy into the comments that may have originated from (er) you.

On Crimea. Who knows what would have happened to the Russian-leased naval bases on the Peninsula had Ukraine joined NATO at some unknown point in the future. Running off hypotheticals is no justification to annex someone else's land. Regardless, Russia has other naval bases in the Black Sea that they could have developed.

Anyway, the naval bases are a red herring, as you know, as is the hypothetical membership of NATO.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

Accuracy? What accuracy. There is no accuracy. we don't know the exact death was and who cause those deaths. Russia was in a war that killed millions, supply lines were cut. And so on and so forth. Stalin was a bad man but the extent of his evil is unknown. And then we get back to the fact that IT HAS NO RELEVANCY TO WHAT IS HAPPENING MODERN DAY. But hey I understand its difficult to lie, so you just gotta spread all the propaganda you possibly can.

And you honestly think that Ukraine wouldn't haven't been included into NATO? Are you joking? Like is that seriously a though that you have? Holy cow!

If someone might take your stuff. And you think they might take your stiff because they have been attacking nations on almost every continent you do something about it!


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

The current head of Russia is former KGB. Do you really think that gives the former SSRs the warm and fuzzies? Just because modern Russia hasn't committed crimes against humanity on the level of the Soviets (although some of the human rights violations in Chechnya are pretty horrific) doesn't change the fact that most of the countries now running to the West were screwed over under the Soviets. Do you really expect them to forget and forgive so quickly even though many of those in power now had influence in the USSR? Hell, there's probably still quite a few people that still remember Stalin's purges.

So just because modern Russia hasn't killed tens of millions of people that doesn't mean those scars have healed. How many Ukrainians has NATO killed over the past century? How many Ukrainians has Russia killed over the same period? Can you really blame them for seeking closer ties with the West especially when Russia has already sent troops to other neighbors not under the protection of NATO?



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

So where is the excuse for the eu and us for plating and executing a coup. Russia hasn't touched any former soviet states, all they've done is built relations. Stop living in the past is about all I can say to you. You catch up to me in the present and talk about THE PRESENT!


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Ohh and when you bring up Georgia like I'm sure you were gonna do also bring up how the Georgian army rolled through Ossetia slaughtering citizens. And them they, with the help of NATO troops, got their shut pushed in in 8 days by Russia.

NATO and the us are nothing but a bunch of hypocritical bullies that pick on the weak to maintain dominance and then they play stupid when people call them out on it.

Ohh wow actually sounds like the former soviet union doesn't it.


edit on 6-6-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcalibur254

So where is the excuse for the eu and us for plating and executing a coup. Russia hasn't touched any former soviet states, all they've done is built relations. Stop living in the past is about all I can say to you. You catch up to me in the present and talk about THE PRESENT!



5 billion over 10 years does not a coup make. Sorry it just dont compute. This is not on topic though. the topic is Ukraine stepping up attacks. Reason why? Because the seperatist broke it first.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 07:12 PM
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NWO folks trying to pose as worthy world judge in front of world powers while US dollar is holding anything. Pathetic old farts.

DO.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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thats about right.

2nd



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

I could care less what Russia has done in the past. The most they've effected me is spurring the US into some awesome technological advancements. The ones that care about Russia's past are those nations who have felt their touch. But it must just be coincidence that many of the former SSRs have turned to the EU and NATO. It must just be coincidence that the Baltics have have asked for NATO bases. It must just be coincidence that Scandinavia and Finland are acting more and more paranoid towards Russia's incursions. You keep acting like I'm the one focused on the past. All I'm trying to do is point out that Russia's neighbors have a long memory. So why should they continue to acquiesce towards a neighbor that killed hundreds of thousands of their citizens when in the other side they have people that haven't really done anything to them?



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