Should I become a pagan?

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: WarminIndy

Well he's a smart guy then lol.

Are you one of these Wiccans the OP mentioned

but I've known some Wiccans and they can be pretty out there individuals which makes me nervous about trying to establish relations with pagans

I don't think you are. Perhaps you can show the OP that you aren't one of those "out there individuals" without allowing the OP to make the same accusations about Christians?

I didn't bash Wiccans, JUhrman did, the OP did, but I didn't. It is possible to say "This is really what Wicca is" without propaganda. Look at it objectively.

originally posted by: Klassified

That's quite a jaded outlook you have there.

It was a generalization based on real cases. As I said genuine wiccans/pagans exist even if most of the time their tradition is no older than 200 years.

I responded in the context of this thread, where OP wondering if he should be a pagan just because he doesn't believe in Christian faith illustrates perfectly that "spiritual shopping" I was talking about.

A spiritual tradition/faith is something that takes an integral part of your life. You don't chose to become this or that on a hunch.


If you don't know where you philosophically stand the first thing to do is read more instead of throwing traditions around and see if they stick.

a reply to: JUhrman

And that is the Second time you called wiccans fat dancing ladies. You're the problem here buddy and I'm getting pissed off.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

I never said all were You have the right to be pissed at them for giving this wrong impression about Wiccans. Just like Christians have the right to be pissed at fundies for giving them a bad rep.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Klassified

That's quite a jaded outlook you have there.

It was a generalization based on real cases. As I said genuine wiccans/pagans exist even if most of the time their tradition is no older than 200 years.

I responded in the context of this thread, where OP wondering if he should be a pagan just because he doesn't believe in Christian faith illustrates perfectly that "spiritual shopping" I was talking about.

A spiritual tradition/faith is something that takes an integral part of your life. You don't chose to become this or that on a hunch.


If you don't know where you philosophically stand the first thing to do is read more instead of throwing traditions around and see if they stick.

Agreed.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You're right you didn't insult me. You Totally dissed the OP calling her a parrot.
Personally it matters not to me what this person decides but I can sure feel that pure Christian love radiating from my computer screen from those that do have opinion on what she should do.
You guys hang yourselves with this love.
Yeah I want to belong to your club. NOT.

a reply to: JUhrman

PAGAN merely means old ways. You have not studied paganism so let's not pretend you know any more than a glimmer obtained by your own emersion in pop culture.
I have been a witch for over a decade.
I have dozens of books on the subject some copies of very old books.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: WarminIndy

You're right you didn't insult me. You Totally dissed the OP calling her a parrot.
Personally it matters not to me what this person decides but I can sure feel that pure Christian love radiating from my computer screen from those that do have opinion on what she should do.
You guys hang yourselves with this love.
Yeah I want to belong to your club. NOT.

Or what she should not do...

And isn't this kind of not what Wiccans practice? Do what thou wilt, but harm none? Doesn't that harm include conditioning to get them on one side against another?

How do you know paganism is the right path for the OP? Or did you just jump in and say "Join ours because we love everyone"? You know very well that Wiccans will use left hand magick when things don't go their way. Isn't that correct?

You have a permissible allowance of left hand magick...don't you?

Hey, do what you want, but tell the OP everything, including the left hand for purposes of harm against someone else if they make you angry enough to do something.

You didn't share that with the OP and I think the OP should know, because the OP is asking questions based on a movie. And then you tell us that we don't express love, and yet your side allows left hand to do harm.

I'm not saying that you have used the left hand to do harm, but you know it is allowable in Wicca.

This is a complex question as you state that you are leaning toward a form of rationalism with your atheism, yet then ask if you should be pagan which is really more of a "none of the above" category (Hinduism, New Age Movements etc..) Within this "paganism" you'll find many people who are just as gullible as in any religion (but still a bit more gullible than some atheists, as rationalism has been proven to be a cultural construct in math and postmodernism), but you may find their "beliefs" less offensive. Of course the line between "paganism" and "monotheism" is ill defined and slippery, like saint worship in Catholicism or Santeria.

The dirty secret is that on some level none of our thoughts are truly rational so we are always choosing beliefs partly based on socio-political cultural ideologies. Indeterminacy is the way we encounter reality, certain things are neither explained by religion or science, and the trickster figure (common in some African religions) posits a lesson of the absurdity (and reality) of spirituality. You can get hoodwinked at every step.. So, a mixture of belief and research, if you have a Gnostic experience of Jesus, by all means keep to it, but there are millions of strands of Christianity, and Sufi Islam does a great job with Jesus as well. Try reading Rumi or Ibn "Arabi.. Explore.. Both experientially through practice and by thinking through concepts of different religions and spiritualities. If you want to stay closer to an atheist, explore Theraveda Buddhism (original Buddhism as later Mahayana Buddhism may be to much deity for you.) Thus you can start meditating and exploring beyond mind. Or stay atheist. The rest is up to you.

a reply to: Klassified

Pretending pagans. Cool.
Perhaps we're just pretending we're not Christians.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
You have not studied paganism so let's not pretend you know any more than a glimmer obtained by your own emersion in pop culture.

And you know that how?

But please educate me about "celtic paganism" when I'm actually living in what was the cultural center of many Celtic cultures. So much that many of them are still alive today.

But please, tell me how you, an American, know more about the culture of the land I and my ancestors have been living for millenias.

I'm genuinely interested about your wisdom.

I really wonder if you are not projecting here.

a reply to: WarminIndy
Agreed. And the OP should also know what it means for a Christian to shake the dust from their feet. Right?

a reply to: JUhrman

I know it by What you've written.

nevermind.


I love it when an American tells how I don't know about the culture and ancient beliefs of my country.

Like I'm going to say to a native he doesn't know what he talks about regarding his myths and beliefs.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: Klassified

Pretending pagans. Cool.
Perhaps we're just pretending we're not Christians.

You know me well enough to know I have no problem with pagans or Witches. Re-read my post before you assume I'm attacking you or any other witch. The poster was right in his assertion that some do not take their pagan beliefs seriously, and I agreed with him.

a reply to: JUhrman

Just the fact you think paganism is based solely in European culture tells me you have very limited knowledge. Now sir please don't derail the thread any further and please stop insulting my religion which you know nothing about.
Answer the OP then. Your answer is obviously no so what religion should she look to?
She wants fellowship and philosophy and spiritual community.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Just the fact you think paganism is based solely in European culture tells me you have very limited knowledge.

Don't hesitate to quote the part where I (did not) claim this.

I specifically said pagan = anything non Christians so it's really an umbrella term and not a good way to name a specific set of beliefs.



And I already answered the OP. OP should read more before deciding to adopt a new religion/philosophy.

You don't switch philosophies like you change clothes. If you do it means you are not serious about it anyway.

a reply to: JUhrman

I love it when cowens think all paganism sprang from Celtic beliefs. Also how some Europeans think Americans sprang up out of the soil here in America instead of realizing that we all have roots somewhere else.
I never knew that living in great Britain made you an automatic expert on all things pagan.

a reply to: JUhrman

What was all that about living in the land of the Celts?

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
I never knew that living in great Britain

I'm not. Actually Celts did not originate from UK, classical Anglo-Saxon mistake. They originated from the East and settled in western Europe.

You have demonstrated many times in this thread you make tons of assumptions just because you got triggered by the words "fat dancing ladies".

Listen lady, I'm sorry I triggered you, please don't make this about us two anymore and move on with the topic.