I want to be vaccinated, why can't you meet me half way.

a reply to: VoidHawk

If we take measles..

Source
WHO Fact Sheet

As a result of measles virus infections, an average of 150,000 patients had respiratory complications and 4000 patients had encephalitis each year; the latter was associated with a high risk of neurological sequelae and death. These complications and others resulted in an estimated 48,000 persons with measles being hospitalized every year [3]. In 1966, 3 years after licensure of the first measles vaccines, Sencer et al. [4] announced the first of 3 efforts to terminate indigenous measles transmission in the United States. Subsequent measles-elimination goals were announced in 1978 and in 1993. The fundamental strategy for all 3 elimination efforts consisted of achieving high vaccination coverage among preschool- and school-aged children, careful surveillance of cases, and rigorous outbreak control [4–6]. Although the first 2 elimination efforts did not achieve elimination, they resulted in a substantial reduction in measles incidence: An average of 1.3 cases per 100,000 population was reported during 1982–1988, compared with an average of 313 cases per 100,000 during 1956–1960 (figure 1). Nevertheless, a resurgence of measles occurred during 1989–1991, again demonstrating the serious medical burden of the disease. More than 55,000 cases, 123 deaths, and 11,000 hospitalizations were reported [7]. Two major causes of this epidemic were vaccine failure among a small percentage of school-aged children who had received 1 dose of measles vaccine and low measles vaccine coverage among preschool-aged children.

Seems pretty obvious that the decrease in transmissions, reported cases, deaths and complications arising from Measles, dropped significantly.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower
Hmmm, I did ask for "last year"

There are many reasons why there might have been a drop, for example natural immunity could have been the reason. We dont know because we dont have all the data.

I'll tell you what the real problem with vaccines is, its the lack of choice!
If you want the vaccine, thats fine by me, you go get it, but filling the minds of the masses with fear of the unvaccinated is wrong!
The unvaccinated get the disease once, if they survive they have a natural immunity, they are then even a less of a danger than the vaccinated, but the media comes out with all the bs about the unvaccinated being the cause of "BABY DEATHS", it all bs!

Lack of choice is the problem, and its the main cause of the fear of vaccines.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
The death rate from measles in 1960, before the Measles vaccine was licensed, was 1:100,000. I guess by your statistics, that's less than nothing. The death rate from Varicella (AKA chicken pox) is 100x lower.

Both are disease that we build natural immunities that last a lifetime when we catch it young but causes problems in adults and the elderly when caught later on.

A little sick, barely no chance of dying
VS
Taking the chance to have problems due to vaccines, not be immunized for life and maybe have serious complications later.

On top of that, the freshly vaccinated can be contagious.

It seems like a no brainer to me.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I don't consider a rash, swelling or a fever to be reason enough to claim that vaccines are bad.

I do.
If I would use a product that give me those sympthoms, I would know that something's wrong with the product.

originally posted by: Aboveway
a reply to: rukia

I don't really care what army of Internet people thinks. I have real life experience.

Then Just Leave Your Kid in the Car on a Really Really Hot Day, Lock the Door & Make Sure You Have a Smile On Your Face Because You Just Took Care of ALL Your Problems & Misinformation!

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Autism is an allergic reaction? What is the mechanism? What is the allergen?

Clostridia toxins. Nothing to do with vaccines.

Seriously I'm surprised no one in the thread wants to dig this fresh info I'm sharing with you. It's like no one cares about the truth.

A child that was treated with a drug to make clostridia dormant saw its autistic symptoms disappear entirely.

The problem is clostridia is resistant to antibiotics so there is no permanent cure. This is exactly why antibiotics actually cause the clostridia invasion, by killing the good bacteria leaving room for a clostridia over-breeding.



That's why we should stop giving antibiotics to children if not absolutely necessary. And make sure they develop a good gut flora, not something you get from processed food obviously.

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I don't consider a rash, swelling or a fever to be reason enough to claim that vaccines are bad.

I do.
If I would use a product that give me those sympthoms, I would know that something's wrong with the product.

Saying they cause autism is a fallacy though.

a reply to: JUhrman

This isn't new, it's been known for 10 years that gut bacteria have a direct impact in breaking down toxins that lead to autism. This is one reason why my daughter is on a 50 billion count probiotic. Yes it helps alleviates symptoms, as does running a clean diet.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: JUhrman

This isn't new, it's been known for 10 years that gut bacteria have a direct impact in breaking down toxins that lead to autism. This is one reason why my daughter is on a 50 billion count probiotic. Yes it helps alleviates symptoms, as does running a clean diet.

Yet it's not known enough since we still give always more antibiotics to children and autism rates are on the rise in developed countries.

originally posted by: JUhrman
Saying they cause autism is a fallacy though.

I disagree, I'm pretty sure that vaccines are a factor in autism.


Autism Linked To Immune System Problems, Further Evidence Found

"Our study further supports a disturbed immune system in children with classic autism that may be related to genetic factors as cytokine proteins are coded by genes distributed among the human chromosomes."

In my opinion, vaccines lower the global effectiveness of our immunes systems to give specific, and sadly temporary, protections.

Vaccines might not be the prime suspect in autism but I'm 99% sure it's a factor.

a reply to: VoidHawk

Well if the vaccine did it's job I would imagine they'd be very low.

That's sorta the point I'm trying to make.

-Tenth

a reply to: theMediator

It's just one of many, there is a genetic issue, environmental, as well as biological in that yes gut flora has a major impact on your immune system. Does it cause it, I agree no, but it is a contributing factor, just as vaccines are. Whether you live in a toxic environment, and finally, if it's in your genes.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Now, remember, the one and a half percent include those who have severe reactions. About another ten percent have reactions similar to reaction to a virus. It is intended to do this, this is how it works. The immune response to a virus gives us most of the symptoms of the flu. The reaction of the body to measles actually gives us the bumps, you can have the measles without any symptoms if your body does not fight it. The vaccines only stimulate the immune systems, they do not work if the body does not actually fight. There are medicines that can be used to kill viruses, the vaccine does not.

So what I am saying is that even though you have antigens from the vaccinations, it does not mean all people will be immune if there is a problem with their immune system working properly. There are immune system dampeners in some medicines, put there to keep your immune system from throwing a fit. Some foods also dampen our immune systems responses to either viruses or to bacteria, or to both. Other foods will boost our response.

I have tried to figure if the foods I eat actually interfere with my ability to get a vaccine. They may, I do eat foods that have immune system boosting ability. But they are not eaten in enough quantity to actually cause a problem if I do not get vaccinated. So since I eat these foods to protect me from viruses on a regular basis, why do I need a flu shot anyway?

It would be better to teach people how to eat certain things when a threat is around than to expose them to possibly sick people when they go get their vaccinations. But then we wouldn't need the vaccinations or the visit to go get the shot I suppose which will cause a financial loss to the medical and pharmacutical industries which compromise over twenty two percent of GNP for this country.

a reply to: JUhrman

#truth

even though I am also pretty sure they have been the catalyst for autism in some cases I believe those cases to be isolated and not part of the norm. I don't believe it was intentional, if it happened. People make mistakes. Perhaps they made the mistake of making some bad vaccines in the past--with innovation and progress comes lots of mistakes on the way. We are all only human.

Regardless of what may or may not be the truth regarding autism and vaccines (since none of us knows the whole story at this point) JUhrman is correct in remarking that saying "vaccines cause autism" is a fallacy. There isn't enough proof at all at this point. It might be biology causing autism. Genetics that collides badly with vaccines--is that the genes fault or the vaccine? Sounds like it's the genes--since they were possibly a variable that wasn't considered due to rarity or whatever. That's why they're doing the DNA databases too atm--probably to ensure the legitimacy, safety, and efficacy of vaccines and other medical help. It makes sense--one of my close friends is in med school right now and is becoming a doctor. He wants to help others--and I imagine the same is true for the vast majority of the medical community. But ofc there are bad eggs/doctors who are in big pharma's pocket, etc.

Yes, evil exists--and it's everywhere. But good people exist, too. And aren't as few as one might imagine at first. I guess what I'm trying to say is although I totally understand where people are coming from when they correlate autism with vaccines--I have to say that there isn't enough information currently to figure out whether or not these claims are accurate (even partially) or not. Because honestly the fact is, something ELSE might be causing autism. And by fixating on vaccinations (which, lets say hypothetically are NOT the culprit) we are doing the victims a total disservice. Until all of the facts are brought to light we shouldn't be hasty making flash judgements--as hard as that definitely is.


But hating on vaccines in general is just totally wrong. Again, think of all of the diseases we don't have to worry about any more. I, for one, am elated that I don't have to worry about dying from smallpox etc. If you know history, then you know the devastation that those (now curable/preventable) illnesses wreaked upon humanity until the advent of penicillin and vaccines and modern medicine.

www.fda.gov...

^that's what the FDA has to say. Obviously they have a bias. Even still, it's worth a read. At least to understand both sides of the debate imo


Also, I'd like to mention that when the HPV thing was huge and all my friends got it, my mom warned me against it and was the reason I said no. I'm so glad I didn't get it--I read something on here about how basically it's a bunk vaccine that doesn't really do anything it says it does. Which is terrifying. The side effects killed some people, I remember. My friends got horrible aches and pains. Scary stuff. So yeah, I'm by no means an advocate of over-vaccination/taking new vaccines whose efficacy is unknown due to a lack of 20 year + studies.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Autism is an allergic reaction? What is the mechanism? What is the allergen?

Clostridia toxins. Nothing to do with vaccines.

Seriously I'm surprised no one in the thread wants to dig this fresh info I'm sharing with you. It's like no one cares about the truth.

A child that was treated with a drug to make clostridia dormant saw its autistic symptoms disappear entirely.

The problem is clostridia is resistant to antibiotics so there is no permanent cure. This is exactly why antibiotics actually cause the clostridia invasion, by killing the good bacteria leaving room for a clostridia over-breeding.



That's why we should stop giving antibiotics to children if not absolutely necessary. And make sure they develop a good gut flora, not something you get from processed food obviously.

It certainly is an interesting theory--many bacterial toxins are neuropathic.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The funny thing is that people do not realize that we get a much bigger dose of formaldehyde and aluminum from our environment, from traffic, room air, from food and drinks.
Formaldehyde is one of the most used components in the beauty industry too, and not to forget toothpaste, shampoo.. Those items we use daily.

a reply to: rukia

Sorry I didn't read your long post because it sounds like MSM to me.

Why read your post when I can watch FOX

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: Aboveway

Dont waste your time. There's an army of trolls waiting to put down any attempt at the truth.

Lol yes I am seeing this for sure.

originally posted by: Aboveway
Sorry I didn't read your long post because it sounds like MSM to me.

Why read your post when I can watch FOX

You can't expect anymore respect from the people in this thread now that you basically confirmed to be to lazy to even read anything not comforting your beliefs.

Have fun in your little bubble of reality. Just don't expect to convince anyone with your one-way "discussions".


For example I'm particularly disappointed that you attacked my posts like I was defending vaccines (which I wasn't doing), while I was actually sharing very valuable info on how to prevent and fight autism in children.

Have a nice day.

a reply to: JUhrman

Look you are no doubt a smart man and it seems like your heart is in the right place unlike some people.

But you are missing the point and a logical argument. There are countless testimonies of parents seeing children and babies get fever after being vaccinated.

This fever Never is fatal and it goes away, and after that child changes into non active which is later diagnosed as Autism.

So your story line on antibiotics is lacking something.

Lacking something called a vaccine.