I want to be vaccinated, why can't you meet me half way.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Yes actually they do, it has been proven over and over and over that vaccines have a allergic reaction ratio of around 1.5%. That might not sound like a lot, but when your dealing in millions that number adds up quickly. Further, there are over 21 different vaccines on the USA vaccination schedule. Meaning every time you do a vaccine you run that risk of being 1.5% of the population. The his is why we have 1 in 58 kids(correcting the above), because the vaccines combined with all the # in the environment leads to damage.

Camain

An allergic reaction is not autism and the majority of those allergic reactions are self limited redness and swelling at the vaccination site--localized and temporary.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I spent over 150k working 3 jobs to get my daughter from non-verbal to high functioning, that includes also my ex wife putting MASSIVE time in research to do things to alleviate autism.

I'm a lucky one, I only had to change diapers till she was 8. That said, what about the kids that will never be somewhat normal? It costs over 1.5 million dollars to raise one child in the USA till 18, how about until there 80? There not going to give that kind of money out for these kids.

I do agree their needs to be a middle ground. But whom decides that? That's the issue? You realize that the anti vac movement isn't the poor in the USA? Most of the people in the anti vac movement are college educated. Who decides? Again it comes down to personal choice, whom will accept responsibility for the damage done.

MMR used to be the big hitter, but honestly, I think people miss the forest for the trees. Autism is caused by having nasty environmental variables impacting weak genetic traits that exacerbate allergic reactions. (In my opinion) . That's what I've seen in my experience anyway with parents like myself that have autistic children, because believe me, those first couple years after diagnosing you are scrutinizing everything, absolutely everything. The. You move from trying to figure out what caused it, to trying to treat it.

a reply to: rickymouse

What if it was you or your kid that was one of the one and a half percent. What if your kid had a severe reaction to vaccines, would you keep giving the vaccines to him/her?

Here's a story for you.

My neighbor's youngest daughter is one of those kids.

A Combination of symtoms brought on by vaccinations at 2, 4, 6, 8 and 12 month. What they call 'booster shots'. Everytime she had one, another symptom would occur, but the doctors never put two and two together until it was too late.

This can cause a cytokine storm for some people.

Pretty much what happened. Does he vaccinate his kids anymore? Not her, but the others never had any issues, they continue to take them as required ( which isn't very much).

Anecdotal evidence, is not a good measure of whether something is good or not. Especially not at low rates like 1.5%.

It's unfortunate, and yes it will continue to happen, regardless of the medicines we create. That does not mean that the 98.5% of us who benefit from vaccines, have to looked down upon because the 1.5% who are hurt.

~Tenth

a reply to: Aboveway

Nice to see you all in this thread, question does conviction equal abtuse and abbrassive if so your living up to the stereotype ..

a reply to: camain

I can't disagree with anything you said.

And it proves exactly what I'm saying that people who have suffered because of this, can still be very reasonable about what vaccines are good, and which ones should be taken out, or studied further before they are distributed en mass.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Aboveway
a reply to: tothetenthpower

I don't want to be disrespectful.

But having posted what you just posted, poisons while calling them not poisons. With FDA link.

I can not consider you as a trustworthy source for me personaly.

Ever drink a beer? What do you think it is metabolized into inside your body?

The NIH Report on Carcinogens, 12th Edition, profile on formaldehyde states that it is in the "air, soil, food, treated and bottled drinking water, surface water and groundwater". Our primary route of exposure is breathing it, indoors or outdoors. Much of this inhaled formaldehyde comes from car exhaust, tobacco smoke, power plants, forest fires and wood stoves. Outdoors, we are exposed to anywhere from 0 to 100 parts per billion (ppb) every day. Indoors, it can be as much as 500 to 2,000 ppb (temporary housing such as that used after hurricane Katrina measured from 3-590 ppb). To a smaller degree, we ingest it in our food and water (the average American diet contains about 10-20mg of formaldehyde from things like apples, carrots, pears, milk, etc.), as well as some exposure via cosmetics.

What many people may not know is that our own bodies produce and use formaldehyde as a part of our normal metabolism (Final Report on Carcinogens Background Document for Formaldehyde [PDF], 2010). When we are exposed to methanol (e.g., via inhalation or ingestion of foods like citric fruits and juices, vegetables or fermented beverages), our bodies break it down into formaldehyde and other byproducts. Our bodies produce formaldehyde as a result of DNA demethylation (an important process for controlling gene expression, e.g., in developing embryos) and other biological processes. It is such a regular part of human metabolism, that our normal, naturally produced blood concentrations are generally about 2-3μg of formaldehyde per gram of blood (or about 2.12-3.18μg/mL)*. And it is actually a pretty important chemical; our bodies use formaldehyde to form DNA and amino acids (Toxicological Profile for Formaldehyde [PDF], ATSDR, 1999).

Everything is a potential poison, even the evil dihydrogen monoxide. What makes something a "poison" is dose and length of exposure.

Just because something has a scary sounding chemical name, does not automatically mean it's harmful.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Autism is an allergic reaction. One that causes brain swelling, neurological damage as well as brain damage. Look an compare autistic children to people who have over exposure to mercury, or lsd, or other things that impact the nervous system. There very similar.

I personally don't believe the vaccines are the cause, because but I do believe the are initiate the issue.

It's kinda like driving down the road at 200 miles an hr. Your speed, whether your going up hill or down hill, whether the road is curvy or straight all have an impact on the deer that you nail. Sometimes the deer will bounce off your hood and you have little car damage, other times, the deer is actually a moose and he decided he wants to sit in your back seat by means of the drivers seat.

All I'm saying is most people argue the vaccines left right and center. It's not just the vaccines. There are several other things that can lead to it.

a reply to: Aboveway

Dont waste your time. There's an army of trolls waiting to put down any attempt at the truth.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: NavyDoc

Autism is an allergic reaction. One that causes brain swelling, neurological damage as well as brain damage. Look an compare autistic children to people who have over exposure to mercury, or lsd, or other things that impact the nervous system. There very similar.

I personally don't believe the vaccines are the cause, because but I do believe the are initiate the issue.

It's kinda like driving down the road at 200 miles an hr. Your speed, whether your going up hill or down hill, whether the road is curvy or straight all have an impact on the deer that you nail. Sometimes the deer will bounce off your hood and you have little car damage, other times, the deer is actually a moose and he decided he wants to sit in your back seat by means of the drivers seat.

All I'm saying is most people argue the vaccines left right and center. It's not just the vaccines. There are several other things that can lead to it.

Autism is an allergic reaction? What is the mechanism? What is the allergen? How does an allergy create brain swelling? What cytokines are involved? Evidence of "swelling?" CT scans? Why does this "swelling" cause cognitive defects but no other neurological defects?

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The death rate from measles in 1960, before the Measles vaccine was licensed, was 1:100,000. I guess by your statistics, that's less than nothing. The death rate from Varicella (AKA chicken pox) is 100x lower.

Yet we have authoritarian dupes trying to allow the USG to force-hype babies? It's the height of ignorance. Selling the flesh of babies is wrong according to most value systems. How about yours?

Will you stand up and defend the integrity of the corporations that self-certify and produce these substances? A word of warning. If you dare to go there, I'll be back with an encyclopedia of proven fraud and brazen incompetence by the FDA.

a reply to: VoidHawk

One day you will join our troll ranks!

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I used that example lightly, I'm actually unfamiliar with the statistics, and I believe yours are correct.

I do believe some of those vaccines were pushed for other reasons. There's also (apparently) some compelling evidence the Polio vaccines weren't the main cause of it disappearing either, but I've only heard of that in passing and haven't researched it any.

Will you stand up and defend the integrity of the corporations that self-certify and produce these substances?

No I hate the FDA and big pharma for most of what they do, vaccinations being the least of their evils though if you ask me.

I'm not outright supporting vaccines or the FDA or big pharma, I'm just saying that a lot of what people think they know is based on a mountain of ignorance. On both sides I suppose.

~Tenth

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
That's a 98.5% success rate. I'd call that a win.

98,5% chance of maaaaybe being protected against non-deadly viruses that you might have NEVER caught in the first place exept if you we're in contact with those vaccinated while they are still contagious?

That's not a win, it's just not a complete failiure.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
There will ALWAYS be side effects to man made drugs.

A good way to excuse incompetance.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Here's the one from the FDA:

www.fda.gov...

But I guess you probably think they are all colluding with Big Pharma to make the population all sick or something.

Are you living under a rock? the FDA is CLEARLY siding with corporate profits ahead of our health.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Some things, MUST be mandated for the safety of the general populous. Maybe not the MMR Vaccine if we are talking about that, but the basic stuff, not much can be found to argue against the benefits.

Maybe not the MMR vaccine? So you are also aware that something's not clicking right...why are you promoting vaccines then?

I'm pretty sure that vaccines might not be the prime suspect in autism but I don't BELIEVE that they are overally beneficial to our immune systems in the long run and I KNOW that we shouldn't force everyone or ridicule anyone who doesn't want to vaccine their OWN children. My opinion shouldn't stop does that want to be vaccinated, that's their choice but the OP isn't that far off in wanting to have safer vaccines.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

It should be 1.5/100 kids get the issues, since the science shows a 1.5% allergic reaction ratio.

~Tenth

In a population of 250 million thats 3,750,000 allergic reactions. So....how many died from the flu last year? How many died from measles or any of the other illnesses that they vaccinate for?
If you want to be ruled by numbers then the numbers clearly show its safer to avoid the vaccine.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Aboveway
a reply to: tothetenthpower

I don't want to be disrespectful.

But having posted what you just posted, poisons while calling them not poisons. With FDA link.

I can not consider you as a trustworthy source for me personaly.

If vaccines truly caused autism, you would get the same prevalence rate worldwide.

.

Actually this is not true, as not every country have the same compulsory vaccines. In france for exemple the only compulsory vaccinations are against :

diphtheria
Tetanus
poliomyelitis

Which are given in "primo vaccinations" at 2 months, recall at 4 months and recall at 11 months, that's all (and yellow fever is compulsory if you live in Guyane

Then you have recommended vaccins which you can choose to take or not

a reply to: VoidHawk

In a population of 250 million thats 3,750,000 allergic reactions.

Not quite. You'd have to figure out what percentage of that 1.5 actually develop something long lasting, as opposed to the ones who only get localized swelling and a little fever for 24hrs.

I don't consider a rash, swelling or a fever to be reason enough to claim that vaccines are bad.

How many died from measles or any of the other illnesses that they vaccinate for?

More than the ones who died from vaccinations.

If you want to be ruled by numbers then the numbers clearly show its safer to avoid the vaccine.

Not in this case.

~Tenth

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: VoidHawk

One day you will join our troll ranks!

I will not be assimilated.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: VoidHawk

In a population of 250 million thats 3,750,000 allergic reactions.

Not quite. You'd have to figure out what percentage of that 1.5 actually develop something long lasting, as opposed to the ones who only get localized swelling and a little fever for 24hrs.

I don't consider a rash, swelling or a fever to be reason enough to claim that vaccines are bad.

How many died from measles or any of the other illnesses that they vaccinate for?

More than the ones who died from vaccinations.

If you want to be ruled by numbers then the numbers clearly show its safer to avoid the vaccine.

Not in this case.

~Tenth

So how many died from the wicked illnesses?

Slightly on topic.
I heard just a few days ago on bbc radio (so cant link source) that the cdc had announced that in 2014 one hundred and six thousand people died from rections to prescribed drugs in the usa.
106,000!!! Thats a lot of deaths!
Who cares...

a reply to: NavyDoc

The mechanism is the bodies inability to filter out the crap. The allergen that creates it is something in the vaccine COMBINED with genetic and environmental variables. No 2 people are the same. All my statements have been the body reacts to something or a combination of something's including the vaccine. I don't believe that vaccines cause autism, BUT they do help it. And as to my research, yea, every autism thread has deniers saying prove it, or what not. I could, but honestly even if I listed the evidence would you read it, let alone change your point of view? I doubt it, just as you won't change my opinion of what I think it is. You have whatever you want to believe, and I have my personal experience and what I believe. The autism debate is a lot like is there a god or should a woman be allowed abortion. There are 2 strong opposing sides that just aren't going to agree.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: NavyDoc

The mechanism is the bodies inability to filter out the crap. The allergen that creates it is something in the vaccine COMBINED with genetic and environmental variables. No 2 people are the same. All my statements have been the body reacts to something or a combination of something's including the vaccine. I don't believe that vaccines cause autism, BUT they do help it. And as to my research, yea, every autism thread has deniers saying prove it, or what not. I could, but honestly even if I listed the evidence would you read it, let alone change your point of view? I doubt it, just as you won't change my opinion of what I think it is. You have whatever you want to believe, and I have my personal experience and what I believe. The autism debate is a lot like is there a god or should a woman be allowed abortion. There are 2 strong opposing sides that just aren't going to agree.

But that's not how an allergy works.