Is God a Religious Nut or just an innocent creator being?

People need to stop seeing Satan as bad but necessary. Satan exists to test the will of man the negative that its needed. If there is a positive there must be a negative. But "god" embodies all these aspects and there always must be a balance. You either pass or fail Satan's many tests and become a better person for it. You must go through trials in your life or you will.never grow and mature. Remember we WERE child like until we gained the knowledge of good and evil. And people need to stop assuming it's god every time it's referred in the bible because it also means messenger and principalities aka angels or "our lords" god guided these angels which are mistakenly reffered to as god himself in the bible.

originally posted by: christophoros

christoporos:

People need to stop seeing Satan as bad but necessary. Satan exists to test the will of man the negative that its needed. If there is a positive there must be a negative. But "god" embodies all these aspects and there always must be a balance.

I see it as a teeder todder (a child's amusement ride) . Negative on one end, positive on the other the fulcrum is God Aspect balancing. I do not see [you say Satan I say Lucifer] as a bad thing as the negative influx of energy causes Chaos and positive growth. God is the creator of these things as you say and one cannot play a blame game with the progenitors because as I see it this is a 'progressive growth system'.

christoporos: You either pass or fail Satan's many tests and become a better person for it. You must go through trials in your life or you will never grow and mature. Remember we WERE child like until we gained the knowledge of good and evil.

Have to have the contrast; as the criminals get smarter so do the Cops by way of understanding how that mind works diabolically. Good vs Evil allows one to rise above the fray which is a totally different perspective; one becomes an observer, not a participant. I am not sure this Buddhist idea form is a good one either.

christoporos: And people need to stop assuming it's god every time it's referred in the bible because it also means messenger and principalities aka angels or "our lords" god guided these angels which are mistakenly refered to as god himself in the bible.

The bible is a subtle guide book for people living 1400 years ago; its not a 'procedural manual' for the current incorporation of how to live life in this modern period of time (NEED a more CURRANT EPISTLE). Why some think the messenger is God; would be explained if they understood they were also of the God particle experiment. Have you seen recent threads? I am God or I am the Anti-Christ; its crazy, where is this thought form coming from? Bleed through, everything compressing and the cause is revealed; everyone is God? You have me thinking Christoporos.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: vethumanbeing

galadofwarthethird: The answer to all that is simple. And its the same reason why we have ever done anything, its the reason why your typing in this tread which you created. Because we can. And if you could not, then you would not.

Besides who are you to question the time traveling ability of God

As you say: Because I Can; and can question my creator (if it exists then Prove IT). I am just a rambunctious spirit form in body that is somewhat skeptical regarding this whole earth/spirit form/physical incarnation MOVIE I am living within.

galadofwarthethird: Its obvious before time traveling that one must first create linear time, and so that's what happened, though it was omitted from my text due to briefness. So yes, God created humans, then god created liner time just so he could traveled back in time and created dinosaurs, and then return back to present time when he created humans.
Why you ask? Just because when your God you can do those sort of things. You know, mysterious ways and all that.

Linear Time and why it works on this world would be my first question to any physicist. It happens no where else; but conscious material beings have not been proven to exist at all (any where else in this galaxy or Universe) because they never will (the exception: EARTH), any ideas why this is the experimental planet? I am not God I am just as you a part and particle of its expression. Tell me MORE.

originally posted by: ipsedixit

ipsedixit: God is an innocent creative type who made the universe out of nothing but the physics was so complicated that it totally absorbed his thinking just trying to keep track of it all.

That is how I see IT; not a 'business man' just an idiot savant focused on creating something disregarding all costs as to what this might engender.

ipsedixit: He didn't have time to ride herd on man after the Old Testament days, so he put Satan in charge of disciplining man, but Satan couldn't control man, who basically ran them both out of town.
Then man started tinkering with physics and inaugurated the current carnival of war and crime that everyone knows so well.

God had other ideas somewhere else caught ITS attention. I can see Satan/Lucifer thought form being put in charge of this operation. I don't see it as a failure but a shining success (there is balance between good vs evil) and the point was to drive a positive through chaos. Natural systems are designed to succeed. This new Arab Spring, ISIS is meant to drive what? It seems so backwards in thinking (what is it to accomplish ultimately the division between Judeo/Christianity/Islam) or the destruction of major religions?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
What were the supposed good intentions?
1. God creates man and fallen angle/angel Satan boomerangs it with giving man free will.
2. Satan by giving man free will; man then creates religion/dogma to define God (or himself as a fixer).
3. God allows all sorts of religions (different areas to pop up) in order to give hope to these depressed areas.
4. God is totally innocent and had no idea of what was to come of this "enlightenment" experiment.
5. God knew exactly what IT was doing and allowed everything (WHY)?*
6. God needs to have something to define it (humans) otherwise cannot understand what it is.
7. IT wants to be king of the world and the yoke is religion first; (not science as this method will never prove it).
8. Its all based in FAITH of a higher being and God is testing the human.

I'll try to give this a go.

1. God creates man and angels and possibly other beings (elohim) all with free will.
2. Some of the elohim turn from God as well as some of the angels.
3. God does allow other religions but established His relationship with the Hebrews (before the Hebrews existed some of the peoples living knew Most High) *
4. He knew.
5. Don't know.*
6. God doesn't need anything to define Him*
7. Presumably the adversary is the god (king) of this world
8. Yes?

*3. The Hebrews or Israelites didn't only believe in one "God", nor did they always support polytheism (they did at times, look at Solomon). Many other systems of belief (living among & around the Hebrews) had the Hebrew's Most High at the top of their god list. God allows other systems of belief but doesn't promote/condone them.

*4./5. (could be seen by some as a cop out answer) Why? Don't know and I believe its for reasons we'll all see sometime. But why in general? I think because of community/love. He (and I say He because that's how I believe He has revealed Himself this doesn't need to dismiss His "feminine" qualities (both come from the Creator so in a sense His and Her are kind of irrelevant) has community within the trinity. This community was extended to all creation as a reflection of itself.
Trinity (community) begets creation to beget community vertically and horizontally.

I think a lot can be understood when we understand that when the Bible talks about not having "any other god before me"/"there is no other God like Jehovah", it NEVER states no other god exists.

"Within the spiritual world, as in the human world, entities are differentiated by rank and power. Yahweh is an elohim, but no other elohim is Yahweh. This is what an orthodox Israelite believed about Yahweh. He was not one among equals; He was unique. The belief that Yahweh is utterly and eternally unique—that there is none like Him—is not contradicted by plural elohim in the OT." - MICHAEL S. HEISER

originally posted by: Avoiceinthewilderness
I have another spin on why God allows such insanity from man and the reason for evil.

Without going into detail, I should be dead from a head-on car wreck some 32 years ago. I had one of those white light experiences. This was part of that experience.

It is a completely different place than this universe. One of spirit and love that is not found here, we only live in the shadow of such things, not really knowing the fullness of love and unity. It goes past all time and space, weight and measurement. This universe fits in a fishbowl in Heaven both in all it's time and space. Those who choose to be a child of God, become huge with much of the very same powers God has by God wanting to share this with Heaven's children. There is no pain, threat, remorse or anything that is evil or produces negative results. Even the knowledge of evil or negative doesn't exist there, only here. When I was there it was if nothing bad ever happened to me, I didn't know what a bad day was, never had one. Again only here do we have any experience or knowledge of such.

We live in one grain of sand of love, knowledge, truth, understanding and life. I became one with a desert of such grains of sand but this grain wasn't there, the evil in it prevented it from being there. The question that always comes up concerning God is, why is there evil here.

In Heaven we all have a color, song, love, joy, personality, character and more that is one of a kind and unique to everyone else in Heaven. We are all priceless to God and to each other. We share our total selves with everyone there becoming one with each other but yet retaining our individuality. There is nothing like this in this world. With every new spirit that enters Heaven, a new wave of love and joy ripple through and another and another...

Because of the unity in Heaven, it is impossible to create such uniqueness there, you need an element not present there, negative or evil. Good and evil exist here in this universe. Every person's life and their choices between good and evil is totally different and unique through varied experiences. These choices through free will define our priceless and uniqueness that we are for an eternity. We one day pass from one existence to another leaving all the garbage behind. A new creature forged from love.

Only in faith that Heaven is our home and God is the one who loves us more than anyone or anything else can, will we choose the path there and choose love and unity over selfishness. In this world any value you have will be less than someone or something else. Only in Heaven can you become priceless and share being that valuable. There is only the best in Heaven and everyone is at the top. Looking forward to getting back there.

Man created religion using a mind to understand that which it was never designed to calculate. Knowledge gained from a brain is restricted to time, space, weight and measurement. Only faith can place God above man. Only in faith can you find your identity as an immortal being. Only in faith can you become part of something greater than yourself. God in a way is a victim of man's religion. Many who seek God relate and form an image of God from the knowledge of man and religion. In such an image is found all the short comings, good, evil, pride, self righteousness, fears, arrogance, ignorance, hate and just about everything that God isn't. No wonder why many people reject God. Only in faith that there is a God and seeking truth directly from God will a relationship be found. Seeking this relationship through man's knowledge will lead to religion.

There is truth and breadcrumbs from God found in the world. Many are found in religions who practice love and unity but the ones that make the greatest difference are the ones we find in ourselves. Those two voices in our head when faced with making a choice are breadcrumbs from both good and evil. They are there to help us make direct contact with God and find the path home or the opposite becoming your own God. Religion can be a barrier when treated as the truth instead of as a guide to truth. When anything other than love and unity is taught and a person believes it as truth, they will find themselves attached to the one grain of sand never making it to the desert.

Our life in the world is about making it to the next and developing a priceless being meant for Heaven or not. What happens here is about choices not about the obvious. We really don't get it. We need to give the one grain of sand and ownership of our lives to God in order to become part of something greater than ourselves, to become part of the desert.

God knows what is going on but it is for a reason past man's mind to grasp but faith will lead you there. And God doesn't care for religion since it is man made but he does care about those who are seeking such a love and relationship through religion.

This needed to be posted again; so here it is. It is a stunning revelation by a individualized spirit. God does know exactly what is going on. I have the sneaky feeling it just wants us to love it unconditionally regardless of what we endure as one of ITS humans. Is that the game? Surrender to something unknowable (ON PURPOSE); only shows its existence in the fact ourselves existing or our perfect ecosystem. I am noticing something 'funny is going on' who wins, is it winnable and to what point (the experiment). Is it to create a living library for future use by others if this one ceases to be profitable?

This is kinda my view in a way... and add some humor to the topic.

And maybe he left us in the oven too long when he put us in it.

originally posted by: neils
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

vhb: What were the supposed good intentions?
1. God creates man and fallen angle/angel Satan boomerangs it with giving man free will.
2. Satan by giving man free will; man then creates religion/dogma to define God (or himself as a fixer).
3. God allows all sorts of religions (different areas to pop up) in order to give hope to these depressed areas.
4. God is totally innocent and had no idea of what was to come of this "enlightenment" experiment.
5. God knew exactly what IT was doing and allowed everything (WHY)?*
6. God needs to have something to define it (humans) otherwise cannot understand what it is.
7. IT wants to be king of the world and the yoke is religion first; (not science as this method will never prove it).
8. Its all based in FAITH of a higher being and God is testing the human.

neils: I'll try to give this a go.

1. God creates man and angels and possibly other beings (elohim) all with free will.
2. Some of the elohim turn from God as well as some of the angels.

Free will already given to the elohim would surprise me, but as you suggest 'what if' that happened? Lucifer would not be the "enlightener" It thinks it is (his boss tricked him into thinking this only applied to the human).

neils: 3. God does allow other religions but established His relationship with the Hebrews (before the Hebrews existed some of the peoples living knew Most High)

The chosen ones; so one has to understand the Nibiru/Hibiru/Annunaki are possibly ordained as leaders of men by God.

neils: 4. He knew.
5. Don't know.6 God doesn't need anything to define Him
7. Presumably the adversary is the god (king) of this world
8. Yes?

God needs the human to define It, otherwise wouldn't take the trouble to create us. Sometimes I think God is an adversary.

neils: *3. The Hebrews or Israelites didn't only believe in one "God", nor did they always support polytheism (they did at times, look at Solomon). Many other systems of belief (living among & around the Hebrews) had the Hebrew's Most High at the top of their god list. God allows other systems of belief but doesn't promote/condone them.

Being in the right place at the right time seems to confirm this as civilizations go (uplifting that specie with some hope in a particular area). Still cannot figure out what went wrong with Maya; other than not worth salvation.

neils: *4./5. (could be seen by some as a cop out answer) Why? Don't know and I believe its for reasons we'll all see sometime. But why in general? I think because of community/love. He (and I say He because that's how I believe He has revealed Himself this doesn't need to dismiss His "feminine" qualities (both come from the Creator so in a sense His and Her are kind of irrelevant) has community within the trinity. This community was extended to all creation as a reflection of itself. Trinity (community) begets creation to beget community vertically and horizontally.

Succession through a positive (love). Growth can happen out of destruction but the cost is very high. Not a cop out at all neils. It, he, subjective. We are a reflection of exactly what is going on outside of this heavy material existence. The Trinity represents 'community' to you; that is interesting.

neils: I think a lot can be understood when we understand that when the Bible talks about not having "any other god before me"/"there is no other God like Jehovah", it NEVER states no other god exists.

Good point. God created all, so must have created the others as well (for what purpose) to confuse?

neils: "Within the spiritual world, as in the human world, entities are differentiated by rank and power. Yahweh is an elohim, but no other elohim is Yahweh. This is what an orthodox Israelite believed about Yahweh. He was not one among equals; He was unique. The belief that Yahweh is utterly and eternally unique—that there is none like Him—is not contradicted by plural elohim in the OT." - MICHAEL S. HEISER

I dislike the rank and power element; I do not know what it means (progression of the soul?). I had not heard Yahweh was an elohim; if so there are many resembling it [this one had some power apparently]. Nice insights; thank you neils.

originally posted by: Vault40
This is kinda my view in a way... and add some humor to the topic.

And maybe he left us in the oven too long when he put us in it.

YES! or forgot the baking soda/yeast; any leavening process that would let us "RISE" (above/below) the bungling of the life recipe (shouldn't have added that last flavoring) resulting in Jerk[ed] meat.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

As you say: Because I Can; and can question my creator (if it exists then Prove IT). I am just a rambunctious spirit form in body that is somewhat skeptical regarding this whole earth/spirit form/physical incarnation MOVIE I am living within.

OK dude. But truly, there is no God, and there is no afterlife or anything. When you die, that is all, and that will be all, you will cease to exist and God never existed to begin with, in time every one of us will die, and that will be that. And in a longer time humanity itself will be no more, and that will be that. And this ball called earth will be just another one of countless other lifeless planets floating in a void of nothingness. Maybe one day another species will rise to sapiens but its not likely, and that will be that.

Linear Time and why it works on this world would be my first question to any physicist. It happens no where else; but conscious material beings have not been proven to exist at all (any where else in this galaxy or Universe) because they never will (the exception: EARTH), any ideas why this is the experimental planet? I am not God I am just as you a part and particle of its expression. Tell me MORE.

Does it matter. You will live, you will die. That is all. There needs to be nothing else in reality and in this existence, no rhyme no reason. But that of what people make of things during there brief stint in this thing called life.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: vethumanbeing

vhb:
As you say: Because I Can; and can question my creator (if it exists then Prove IT). I am just a rambunctious spirit form in body that is somewhat skeptical regarding this whole earth/spirit form/physical incarnation MOVIE I am living within.

galadofwarthethird: OK dude. But truly, there is no God, and there is no afterlife or anything. When you die, that is all, and that will be all, you will cease to exist and God never existed to begin with, in time every one of us will die, and that will be that. And in a longer time humanity itself will be no more, and that will be that. And this ball called earth will be just another one of countless other lifeless planets floating in a void of nothingness. Maybe one day another species will rise to sapiens but its not likely, and that will be that.

Thanks for responding galadof. I have questioned the existence of God. You say "there is no afterlife or anything". How do you know this? Evolutionists (in the same vein of thinking) see it as just specie replicating themselves. How do you know as a certainty? Just as someone such as myself has the hope there is something to this life other than meaningless drivel. There are no other planets such as this yet discovered; never will be as this is the only one (living library) so perfect in its construction (describing how the differing specie interact). Perfection so exact that is not random but some hand manipulated it. I am not speaking of mankind's invention of 'religious dogma' but what is right in front of your eyes (bees that pollenate to produce food sources)..the delicate balances of nature [flora/fauna] before humans arrived cannot be accidental. Science is beginning to prove this; its impossible on this grand scale to not have a PLANNED EVENT called Earths seemingly perfect ecosystem; something constructed the design and implemented it. Humans have tried; "Biosphere" in Arizona and failed.

vhb:
Linear Time and why it works on this world would be my first question to any physicist. It happens no where else; but conscious material beings have not been proven to exist at all (any where else in this galaxy or Universe) because they never will (the exception: EARTH), any ideas why this is the experimental planet? I am not God I am just as you a part and particle of its expression. Tell me MORE.

Galadof

oes it matter. You will live, you will die. That is all. There needs to be nothing else in reality and in this existence, no rhyme no reason. But that of what people make of things during there brief stint in this thing called life.

It matters; as I refuse to think my incarnation as 'human' is an accident; if not so, why not be born a blood worm or a leaf on an oak tree; sparrow or a giant granite boulder. I understand I have a lifespan; but born to purpose, some would call this the expectation of the soul in progression to realize a path has to be taken toward enlightenment to gain God Aspect (your final destination). This has nothing to do with dogmatic belief systems. What makes you think this is reality; this is a gigantic sound stage movie set we all live within. How do you explain sentience, self awareness; and that innate idea form of a larger creator being other than our parents. What brings you to your conclusions; you understand this systems growth is based in positive outcomes; some have failed and been destroyed for a reason (not profitable). I suppose I wonder as to why you seem so negative and how that will manifest in your own life (never a good thing). IT DOES MATTER BTW.

a reply to: vethumanbeing
OK OK dude! I was lying, there is a god because you people made one. Everything else you create will manifest in one way or another, the only consistent thing in that is that it will never manifest in exactly the way you want it to.

As for the after life, there are many. But all of it does not necessarily matter. Think of it like this, imagine all the toys and things you though were important when you were young, all of them are likely to be forgotten in some dusty room somewhere when you reach your teen years. Now think of all the things which were so super important when you were a teen? Now how important are those things when your an adult.

Life and existence is like that. All of this is supper important, but when you wake up, its not, it may be an experience, but even that is just data stored away on a long lost page of the cosmos which will never come up again most likely. It may be you, and may be part of you now, but its ever going and ever moving, like a river everything eventually gets washed away.

It matters; as I refuse to think my incarnation as 'human' is an accident; if not so, why not be born a blood worm or a leaf on an oak tree; sparrow or a giant granite boulder.

Leafs and boulders even worms are likely just as important in this habitat called earth. I really dont think the universe and God distinguished between any of them. Oh they may be aware they exist, kind of like how you are aware that your TV screen is made up of many many fine dots and pixels to make an image. But do the pixels matter to you? Are you going to go down to there pixel level and comfort them when one of them blows out, or are you just going to change your whole TV out for a new one?

As above, so bellow you know.

I understand I have a lifespan; but born to purpose, some would call this the expectation of the soul in progression to realize a path has to be taken toward enlightenment to gain God Aspect (your final destination). This has nothing to do with dogmatic belief systems. What makes you think this is reality; this is a gigantic sound stage movie set we all live within.

When your in it, its your reality and everything is real. When your outside it? Its not your reality and nothing in here is real or of import. So yes this place called earth while it may not be the only reality, for now it is your reality and it is very real and quite capable of reminding you of that most times this reality will remind you that its real in a very blunt and straightforward way. Whether you chose to be here or not, does not matter up and till the time your out of here going to whatever pie in the sky you choose.

How do you explain sentience, self awareness; and that innate idea form of a larger creator being other than our parents (we are not born dumb animals).

The cat thinks doing cat things is the most important thing in the world. The crow thinks doing crow things is the whole sum of existence, and it thinks that its the cleverest bird in the world as well. The eagle thinks the heights are the most important thing in the world and they are the most majestic thing in all creation.

Each and every creature things there world is the only world and likely that they are the center of it. Humans think that they are just so supper important and whats even more silly that they can think in abstract thoughts or use a cellphone or created some technology which lets them go to space makes them the masters of things.

But really. So does everybody else and every other creature on this planet or that's alive in this vibration of matter. And in time and if they survive the eons they are all proven how wrong they are. So basically what I am saying is sentience, self awareness, and that innate idea form of a larger creator being other than our parents are really just a matter of opinion, in fact to somebody else or to something else it just may not matter at all kind of how crows eating worms does not matter to us and does not impress us humans that much.

We are all, after all, the center of our own universe. Its the predisposition of life, if it were not so we would be some bot like gelatinous hive mind blob roaming this planet. And even the gelatinous hive mind blobs roaming other planets think they are the best thing ever. We are the pixels which make up this universe.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: vethumanbeing

galadof: OK OK dude! I was lying, there is a god because you people made one. Everything else you create will manifest in one way or another, the only consistent thing in that is that it will never manifest in exactly the way you want it to.
As for the after life, there are many. But all of it does not necessarily matter. Think of it like this, imagine all the toys and things you though were important when you were young, all of them are likely to be forgotten in some dusty room somewhere when you reach your teen years. Now think of all the things which were so super important when you were a teen? Now how important are those things when your an adult.

I agree; the human manifests its version of a God (I think that was the whole creation point of) because GOD needs verification. I understand that other manifestations will include 'distortion aspect' and will not quite turn out the way one may expect. I like the toy analogy; all things degrade and succumb to decay (sad but true) and to see those toys (idea forms) exposed again in daylight/years later as an adult, the dry rot etc. is heartbreaking.

galadof: Life and existence is like that. All of this is supper important, but when you wake up, its not, it may be an experience, but even that is just data stored away on a long lost page of the cosmos which will never come up again most likely. It may be you, and may be part of you now, but its ever going and ever moving, like a river everything eventually gets washed away.

Life here is not easy; I would not recommend it to any new soul attempting to incarnate (because there is no procedural manual given at birth). You chose to incarnate and take on what this life/existence was to teach you. Where did you loose that important page in the data? It is ever moving (with or without you) but you have built yourself an open boat with oars?

vhb:
It matters; as I refuse to think my incarnation as 'human' is an accident; if not so, why not be born a blood worm or a leaf on an oak tree; sparrow or a giant granite boulder.

Galadof:Leafs and boulders even worms are likely just as important in this habitat called earth. I really dont think the universe and God distinguished between any of them. Oh they may be aware they exist, kind of like how you are aware that your TV screen is made up of many many fine dots and pixels to make an image. But do the pixels matter to you? Are you going to go down to there pixel level and comfort them when one of them blows out, or are you just going to change your whole TV out for a new one?
As above, so below you know.

All things on this planet have sentience, conscious awareness; some more than others. I could be pixel and aware that I am a part of greater thing in a screen (for instance). Modern robotics (auto plant welders) have through repetitive motion gained a very primitive sentience. Here is another, the automobile decides to kill its occupant (that whole brake pedal vs the accelerator pedal, Toyota product)? Big fan of 'The Book of Law".

vhb:
I understand I have a lifespan; but born to purpose, some would call this the expectation of the soul in progression to realize a path has to be taken toward enlightenment to gain God Aspect (your final destination). This has nothing to do with dogmatic belief systems. What makes you think this is reality; this is a gigantic sound stage movie set we all live within.

Galadof: When your in it, its your reality and everything is real. When your outside it? Its not your reality and nothing in here is real or of import. So yes this place called earth while it may not be the only reality, for now it is your reality and it is very real and quite capable of reminding you of that most times this reality will remind you that its real in a very blunt and straightforward way. Whether you chose to be here or not, does not matter up and till the time your out of here going to whatever pie in the sky you choose.

Apparently I chose to be living within this unreality vs reality and to make determinations about its validity. I don't believe anything regarding it is "REAL" I can only gauge it against out of body experiences I have (I am not as solid a body mass) but is the same in terms of everything else. Eat, drink, hurt oneself physically. I have traveled the higher realms. I see this reality no different than the one I experience now sitting before you. You are completely correct on this: you will chose your destiny (afterlife) as a gifted imaginative creature are able to do this. Better to create a good one than a potential hell.

vhb:
How do you explain sentience, self awareness; and that innate idea form of a larger creator being other than our parents (we are not born dumb animals).

Galadof: The cat thinks doing cat things is the most important thing in the world. The crow thinks doing crow things is the whole sum of existence, and it thinks that its the cleverest bird in the world as well. The eagle thinks the heights are the most important thing in the world and they are the most majestic thing in all creation.
Each and every creature things there world is the only world and likely that they are the center of it. Humans think that they are just so supper important and whats even more silly that they can think in abstract thoughts or use a cellphone or created some technology which lets them go to space makes them the masters of things.

Cat cares only for mice, a dairy farm, small birds to be available. Crow likes shiny aluminum, as part of the Jay family (tool users) is one of the smartest birds on earth.

Galadof: But really. So does everybody else and every other creature on this planet or that's alive in this vibration of matter. And in time and if they survive the eons they are all proven how wrong they are. So basically what I am saying is sentience, self awareness, and that innate idea form of a larger creator being other than our parents are really just a matter of opinion, in fact to somebody else or to something else it just may not matter at all kind of how crows eating worms does not matter to us and does not impress us humans that much.

I am impressed with the complexity of the system; how millions of specie on one planet can co-exist, from mammals to birds/ reptiles/ insects/all flora/ micro organisms (a miracle).

galadof: We are all, after all, the center of our own universe. Its the predisposition of life, if it were not so we would be some bot like gelatinous hive mind blob roaming this planet. And even the gelatinous hive mind blobs roaming other planets think they are the best thing ever. We are the pixels which make up this universe.

We are the center of our universe (conscious mind) but we happen to live in an animated body form that is designed to be individualized; not of a hive think or gelatinous mucus making up another idea form BEING (well, you could tell one of the 3 trillion cells, lung, liver or heart; that make up your body; the same thing) and that cell most likely would not believe you; that it was part of a greater thinking being. Some friendly advice to all: tell your body a 'head honcho' IS in charge and not cause runaway 'Dis-Ease'.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
What were the supposed good intentions?

To create another (one of many/infinite worlds) world for god/particle expression, to express itself, by learning and experiencing…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
1. God creates man and fallen angle/angel Satan boomerangs it with giving man free will.

Satan gave man freewill…hmmm…the story is just an expression of man/god aspect, knowing it’s Devine connection to God, but having the free will to follow it’s own way, i.e. by forgetting it’s Devine connection to God, which in turn results in learning evil…without both options though, freewill wouldn’t be present…

In other words God + Satan = freewill…how one choses to use it, is another question entirely…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
2. Satan by giving man free will; man then creates religion/dogma to define God (or himself as a fixer).

Yes man, following his lower aspect, and lacking complete knowledge and understanding of God, creates Religion(s) and doctrine(s)…and yes, brings in rules and guidelines, to help try and fix itself…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
3. God allows all sorts of religions (different areas to pop up) in order to give hope to these depressed areas.

Actually, God the Father doesn’t allow all religions; it’s people’s lack of knowledge of God, which creates the Religions; all religions have some elements of Gods truth in them though, but most get distorted by mans carnal knowledge…

Jesus came to do away with the Religion of the day IMO…men just misunderstood the true meanings of His teachings. Christianity today is essentially Jesus teachings, combined with men's traditions and Old Testament Pharisitical beliefs about God, most of which, I believe Jesus came to do away with…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
4. God is totally innocent and had no idea of what was to come of this "enlightenment" experiment.

Yeah, maybe God is totally innocent, as you put it…if this world is just one of many rungs, up or down the ladder, that soul development must travel, in order to decide whether they/it/we go up or down spiritually (or come back here) in our/their next journey….then Yeah, innocent is the word!

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
5. God knew exactly what IT was doing and allowed everything (WHY)?

God knew what it was creating exactly, in terms of this world, but cannot predict God/particle aspects of itself i.e. us. It can only draw and help direct us towards the truth; either our Serpent aspects of our selves win out, and they/we spiral down spiritually to the next realm…or our higher God aspect and truth wins out, and we go onwards and upwards…towards a Higher Heavenly Kingdom…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
6. God needs to have something to define it (humans) otherwise cannot understand what it is.

True True, although sometimes God aspect desires to be free, and sometimes to forget (true freedom IMO) with all that that entails…and sometimes to remember again, when returning back to it’s higher self…IMO

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
7. IT wants to be king of the world and the yoke is religion first; (not science as this method will never prove it).

God the Father just wants the truth to reign on the Earth; Religion only helps when people begin to see the lies and discrepancies within it, but this can only be seen, when one begins to asks oneself the right questions…which is the real seeking and the knocking on the door that Jesus spoke about IMO…

Everyone is on their own individualistic spiritual journey, to find the truth and get closer to God…And there’s nothing wrong with not searching either, depends what you came here to learn…as the saying goes, “when the student is ready the teacher will arrive…”

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
8. Its all based in FAITH of a higher being and God is testing the human.

In a way yes, God is testing the Human with RELIGION, in a strange ironic twist of fate, type of way (“dam drat, if only I knew“ lol)…although perhaps on a higher level, that’s the way it was designed…i.e. to test the heart of the Individual…


Think I’ll play myself out with this….




Peace be with you…


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing

vhb:
What were the supposed good intentions?

Joecroft: To create another (one of many/infinite worlds) world for god/particle expression, to express itself, by learning and experiencing.

I agree completely.

vhb:

1. God creates man and fallen angle/angel Satan boomerangs it with giving man free will.

JC: Satan gave man freewill…hmmm…the story is just an expression of man/god aspect, knowing it’s Devine connection to God, but having the free will to follow it’s own way, i.e. by forgetting it’s Devine connection to God, which in turn results in learning evil…without both options though, freewill wouldn’t be present;

In other words God + Satan = freewill…how one choses to use it, is another question entirely.

How would that angel/angle forget its place or connection to God; how was it corrupted ultimately, or the evil learning curve obtained. It rebelled within/against the goodness it was to impart?

vhb:

2. Satan by giving man free will; man then creates religion/dogma to define God (or himself as a fixer).

JC: Yes man, following his lower aspect, and lacking complete knowledge and understanding of God, creates Religion(s) and doctrine(s)…and yes, brings in rules and guidelines, to help try and fix itself.

By inventing SOMETHING; even if it always existed as self evident.

vhb:

3. God allows all sorts of religions (different areas to pop up) in order to give hope to these depressed areas.

JC: Actually, God the Father doesn’t allow all religions; it’s people’s lack of knowledge of God, which creates the Religions; all religions have some elements of Gods truth in them though, but most get distorted by mans carnal knowledge…
Jesus came to do away with the Religion of the day IMO…men just misunderstood the true meanings of His teachings. Christianity today is essentially Jesus teachings, combined with men's traditions and Old Testament Pharisitical beliefs about God, most of which, I believe Jesus came to do away with.

I am in agreement here; JC insert was to temper the outrageous out of control political paganism of the Roman Empire (probably the Judaic as well) but that did not happen, as was accidently absorbed as the foundation of Christianity. All religions YES have some elements of God; but as you say man (highly inventive and imaginative) can and will distort any/all meanings to suit itself.

vhb:
4. God is totally innocent and had no idea of what was to come of this "enlightenment" experiment.

JC: Yeah, maybe God is totally innocent, as you put it…if this world is just one of many rungs, up or down the ladder, that soul development must travel, in order to decide whether they/it/we go up or down spiritually (or come back here) in our/their next journey….then Yeah, innocent is the word!

If I perceive myself as an 'innocent' God must also be perceived so.

vhb:
5. God knew exactly what IT was doing and allowed everything (WHY)?

JC: God knew what it was creating exactly, in terms of this world, but cannot predict God/particle aspects of itself i.e. us. It can only draw and help direct us towards the truth; either our Serpent aspects of our selves win out, and they/we spiral down spiritually to the next realm…or our higher God aspect and truth wins out, and we go onwards and upwards…towards a Higher Heavenly Kingdom.

You mean allowing for anything to happen regarding its creation, if up or down its still okay? This is how I see it. A failure? make it spectacular. If a success; share it with others. I trust the being that allows me to describe ITSELF in all of my individuality.

vhb:

6. God needs to have something to define it (humans) otherwise cannot understand what it is.

JC: True True, although sometimes God aspect desires to be free, and sometimes to forget (true freedom IMO) with all that that entails…and sometimes to remember again, when returning back to it’s higher self…IMO

That would be us though; as its adjutant creations (without knowing attempting to return our source creator).

vhb:

7. IT wants to be king of the world and the yoke is religion first; (not science as this method will never prove it).

JC: God the Father just wants the truth to reign on the Earth; Religion only helps when people begin to see the lies and discrepancies within it, but this can only be seen, when one begins to asks oneself the right questions…which is the real seeking and the knocking on the door that Jesus spoke about IMO…
Everyone is on their own individualistic spiritual journey, to find the truth and get closer to God…And there’s nothing wrong with not searching either, depends what you came here to learn…as the saying goes, “when the student is ready the teacher will arrive…”

So, the whole point is to see the deception within mans dogma (religion)? I've always seen this quest as entirely personal not involving structured ideology as it can easily be corrupted.

vhb:

8. Its all based in FAITH of a higher being and God is testing the human.

JC: In a way yes, God is testing the Human with RELIGION, in a strange ironic twist of fate, type of way (“dam drat, if only I knew“ lol)…although perhaps on a higher level, that’s the way it was designed…i.e. to test the heart of the Individual…
Think I’ll play myself out with this….

It is ironic that God through Jesus would test in this way (reject the conformation to a random belief system) but it makes sense. He was the only prophet that said "Thanks, but NO THANKS to any sort of Deification". Vid fun now to see/hear, its "the rock" who composed the music? Antonio Pinto?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
How would that angel/angle forget its place or connection to God; how was it corrupted ultimately, or the evil learning curve obtained. It rebelled within/against the goodness it was to impart?

I believe key parts of the story are inverted; opposites created ect…in Frueds dream analysis everything in dreams/visions tends to have the opposite meaning…I think the same applies to Moses vision/story of Adam and Eve…

But to keep it simple, when you’re following that lower serpent aspect, you’re turning away from god; and you begin spiralling downwards…away from Gods remembrance/knowledge etc…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
By inventing SOMETHING; even if it always existed as self evident.

The Human specie has a big imagination….

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I am in agreement here; JC insert was to temper the outrageous out of control political paganism of the Roman Empire (probably the Judaic as well) but that did not happen, as was accidently absorbed as the foundation of Christianity. All religions YES have some elements of God; but as you say man (highly inventive and imaginative) can and will distort any/all meanings to suit itself.

Yeah, the Pagan and Judaic ideas were partly kept along side Jesus teachings producing an amalgamation of those religions into one i.e. Christianity…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
If I perceive myself as an 'innocent' God must also be perceived so.

”innocent” hey, only God knows that one…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You mean allowing for anything to happen regarding its creation, if up or down its still okay? This is how I see it. A failure? make it spectacular. If a success; share it with others. I trust the being that allows me to describe ITSELF in all of my individuality.

“if up or down still ok”, hmmm, Not quite…not so fast there buddy lol…going up is the ideal, and is good for us/we/them spiritually…but sometimes you gota learn, by going to the right place; so if that means going down a peg or two, then yeah, it’s the right thing to happen for them…but ultimately it’s not exactly ok, because it’s not ideal…but is ideal in terms of their learning journey, but not ideal ultimately, as they need to be moving in a higher spiritual direction… I know, it's a paradox....

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
So, the whole point is to see the deception within mans dogma (religion)? I've always seen this quest as entirely personal not involving structured ideology as it can easily be corrupted.

Yes, it’s very personal, and it’s been a longer journey than just this one life time…so it’s REALLY personal…

And yes, see the deception in religion, but also see the parts that are true, and let your heart and spirit of truth lead the rest of the way…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
It is ironic that God through Jesus would test in this way (reject the conformation to a random belief system) but it makes sense. He was the only prophet that said "Thanks, but NO THANKS to any sort of Deification". Vid fun now to see/hear, its "the rock" who composed the music? Antonio Pinto?

Actually there’s a lot of Wisdom too it and by Wisdom I mean the process one goes through in finding the lies and the truth within it…because those that are genuinely searching, with all heart soul and mind, will see the truth for what it is…Jesus knew the word of god would become corrupted by men, in his parable about the wheat and the tares…etc…

Antonio Pinto is the composer…thought you might like the music…very soothing…

Peace


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing

vhb:
How would that angel/angle forget its place or connection to God; how was it corrupted ultimately, or the evil learning curve obtained. It rebelled within/against the goodness it was to impart?

JC:I believe key parts of the story are inverted; opposites created ect…in Frueds dream analysis everything in dreams/visions tends to have the opposite meaning…I think the same applies to Moses vision/story of Adam and Eve…

But to keep it simple, when you’re following that lower serpent aspect, you’re turning away from god; and you begin spiralling downwards…away from Gods remembrance/knowledge etc.

It is so tricky; Down is up; Up is Down. I understand the maze enlightenment is not supposed to be easily earned; despite scripture, or trust/faith it is for the bravest only (because the truth is not easy) and will not be laid upon your lap unless earned.

vhb:

By inventing SOMETHING; even if it always existed as self evident.

JC: The Human specie has a big imagination.

No idea as to how large but is equal to an infinity exponent.

vhb:
I am in agreement here; Jesus Christ insert was to temper the outrageous out of control political paganism of the Roman Empire (probably the Judaic as well) but that did not happen, as was accidently absorbed as the foundation of Christianity. All religions YES have some elements of God; but as you say man (highly imaginative/intellegent) can and will distort any/all meanings to suit itself.

JC: Yeah, the Pagan and Judaic ideas were partly kept along side Jesus teachings producing an amalgamation of those religions into one i.e. Christianity.

Not sure I like that realization at all (short changed somehow).

vhb:

If I perceive myself as an 'innocent' God must also be perceived so.

JC: ”innocent” hey, only God knows that one.

But I trust (within its heart) IT does because it knows me.

vhb:
You mean allowing for anything to happen regarding its creation, if up or down its still okay? This is how I see it. A failure? make it spectacular. If a success; share it with others. I trust the being that allows me to describe ITSELF in all of my individuality.

vhb:

So, the whole point is to see the deception within mans dogma (religion)? I've always seen this quest as entirely personal not involving structured ideology as it can easily be corrupted.

JC: Yes, it’s very personal, and it’s been a longer journey than just this one life time…so it’s REALLY personal…

And yes, see the deception in religion, but also see the parts that are true, and let your heart and spirit of truth lead the rest of the way.

You as a Christian think of yourself as having been other lives lived before?

vhb:

It is ironic that God through Jesus would test in this way (reject the conformation to a random belief system) but it makes sense. He was the only prophet that said "Thanks, but NO THANKS to any sort of Deification". Vid fun now to see/hear, its "the rock" who composed the music? Antonio Pinto?

JC: Actually there’s a lot of Wisdom too it and by Wisdom I mean the process one goes through in finding the lies and the truth within it…because those that are genuinely searching, with all heart soul and mind, will see the truth for what it is…Jesus knew the word of god would become corrupted by men, in his parable about the wheat and the tares…etc…
Antonio Pinto is the composer…thought you might like the music…very soothing…

I look for truth is all. Jesus knew the fallibility of man (expected and recognized it even within his own disciples and forgave their ignorance). I like the music. Have you listened to Boniver? The First CD of theirs.. It is similar in textural tones. Angelic actually; some say it hurts their ears to listen to "Calgary". Funny.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Apparently I chose to be living within this unreality vs reality and to make determinations about its validity. I don't believe anything regarding it is "REAL" I can only gauge it against out of body experiences I have (I am not as solid a body mass) but is the same in terms of everything else. Eat, drink, hurt oneself physically. I have traveled the higher realms. I see this reality no different than the one I experience now sitting before you. You are completely correct on this: you will chose your destiny (afterlife) as a gifted imaginative creature are able to do this. Better to create a good one than a potential hell.

Well that makes sense, but none of us are always that smart. And thing are generally much more complicated then we envision them or even manifest them.

I am impressed with the complexity of the system; how millions of specie on one planet can co-exist, from mammals to birds/ reptiles/ insects/all flora/ micro organisms (a miracle).

Depends on your definition of co-exist. There have been countless species which have gone extinct, and just as many have taken there place or come into the picture. So its more like just existing instead of co-existing or at least not in the warm fuzzy felling way, that was just a piece of memetic software we installed into ourselfs to not have to look at the reality of things as its much more grim.

We are the center of our universe (conscious mind) but we happen to live in an animated body form that is designed to be individualized; not of a hive think or gelatinous mucus making up another idea form BEING (well, you could tell one of the 3 trillion cells, lung, liver or heart; that make up your body; the same thing) and that cell most likely would not believe you; that it was part of a greater thinking being. Some friendly advice to all: tell your body a 'head honcho' IS in charge and not cause runaway 'Dis-Ease'.

To ease your ease.

Funny now how a small tiny thing you cant even see will knock even the mightiest of there pedestal. But I was saying in more terms then biology, as life literally needs that separation in both space and time and even though between its many finite parts to exist. The space between things, is what life is.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: vethumanbeing

vhb:
Apparently I chose to be living within this unreality vs reality and to make determinations about its validity. I don't believe anything regarding it is "REAL" I can only gauge it against out of body experiences I have (I am not as solid a body mass) but is the same in terms of everything else. Eat, drink, hurt oneself physically. I have traveled the higher realms. I see this reality no different than the one I experience now sitting before you. You are completely correct on this: you will chose your destiny (afterlife) as a gifted imaginative creature are able to do this. Better to create a good one than a potential hell.

galadofwarthethird: Well that makes sense, but none of us are always that smart. And things are generally much more complicated then we envision them or even manifest them.

Try the 'smart thinking thing' it may work for some (there is always the complex stuff we never thought of to consider). I would hate to manifest something I could not overpower, or convince it cannot be eaten. Hit the moose accidently with a bull dozer and claim it as road kill.

vhb:
I am impressed with the complexity of the system; how millions of specie on one planet can co-exist, from mammals to birds/ reptiles/ insects/all flora/ micro organisms (a miracle).

galadof: Depends on your definition of co-exist. There have been countless species which have gone extinct, and just as many have taken there place or come into the picture. So its more like just existing instead of co-existing or at least not in the warm fuzzy felling way, that was just a piece of memetic software we installed into ourselfs to not have to look at the reality of things as its much more grim.

The extinction may have been perceived as backwards; they are just emerging species not yet (numbers wise) counted for. Yes many specie seem to have failed (dinosaurs ate the flora into both resulting extinctions; the flora should have fought back but had no teeth). As you say others have taken the place of those lost. Co-existing is a primal thing of balance within co-creation (it defines itself ultimately). Meme software installed; buffering device to avoid the grim reality?

vhb:
We are the center of our universe (conscious mind) but we happen to live in an animated body form that is designed to be individualized; not of a hive think or gelatinous mucus making up another idea form BEING (well, you could tell one of the 3 trillion cells, lung, liver or heart; that make up your body; the same thing) and that cell most likely would not believe you; that it was part of a greater thinking being. Some friendly advice to all: tell your body a 'head honcho' IS in charge and not cause runaway 'Dis-Ease'.

Galadof: To ease your ease.
Funny now how a small tiny thing you cant even see will knock even the mightiest of there pedestal. But I was saying in more terms then biology, as life literally needs that separation in both space and time and even though between its many finite parts to exist. The space between things, is what life is.

It will and exists; that tiny space is HUGE, what is missing is the communication between those bodies of matter or elements. SHOUT as loud as one can: YOU ARE NOT ALONE! (don't do anything without asking about procedures first).
Life is what you have to do to exist *too busy*, and miss the other opportunities that exist between those thought forms (insidious) to not explore. I understand the basis of monastic living (simplified); one can concentrate on their relationship with a higher being. We are too distracted to even contemplate such a thing.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Free will already given to the elohim would surprise me, but as you suggest 'what if' that happened? Lucifer would not be the "enlightener" It thinks it is (his boss tricked him into thinking this only applied to the human).

The Bible doesn't completely suggest that Lucifer was the "enlightener" (serpent in the Garden) (ancient Hebrew oral tradition has the serpent as a bipedal creature (methinks a reptilian type of thing perhaps made by the elohim) ... we need to remember (if we're basing this convo on Biblical accounts plus understanding of other accounts) that we don't know how long God was spending time in "Heaven" w/ the angels and elohim before this, I think all of His creations "above" the current state of the animal kingdom, have free will.

The chosen ones; so one has to understand the Nibiru/Hibiru/Annunaki are possibly ordained as leaders of men by God.

Yes. I think the Annunaki and others mentioned are the elohim mentioned so many times in the bible, that have rebelled. Read Psalm 82.

God needs the human to define It, otherwise wouldn't take the trouble to create us. Sometimes I think God is an adversary.

I disagree. I think He took joy in creating as an extension of Himself. I think everyone at some point think He's an adversary to our desires, wills, etc. But that's another convo

Being in the right place at the right time seems to confirm this as civilizations go (uplifting that specie with some hope in a particular area). Still cannot figure out what went wrong with Maya; other than not worth salvation.

I think salvation has been and is extended to all. As to why choose to start/manifest His relationship in the Middle East, don't know, but if it were in Mesoamerica then some would say why not the Chaldeans?

Good point. God created all, so must have created the others as well (for what purpose) to confuse?

To confuse, I think no. Take a look at Psalm 82 again.

I dislike the rank and power element; I do not know what it means (progression of the soul?). I had not heard Yahweh was an elohim; if so there are many resembling it [this one had some power apparently]. Nice insights; thank you neils.

I think most, to a certain extent dislike any rank and power element. But in the sense of a Creator, He would assume the top spot and everything else below. I don't know Hebrew but I've seen a couple of articles that differentiate Elohim (singular) and b'nai elohim (plural). Both are used in the Bible when referring to God. The problemo is that most Bible teachers are super scared to explore the fact that other gods (elohim) exist. As this usurps their idea (that they got from a misreading of scripture) that only one God exists. So their teachings permeate the sheep that follow them and continues to spread.

Thanks for posting these questions (this is my 3rd post ever, but I've been visiting ATS for a while).
Peace!