Russia lifts ban on delivering missile-defence system to Iran

Its always the ones no one takes seriously that kill you. This is a rope a dope game and the world is playing into it like clockwork. When the best stuff comes out its going to totally demoralize them all.

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Yeah, you're right stealth is stupid. The US should just disband its air force now since it's useless. There's no point in even trying against Russian systems since they're the best in the world.

There is nothing stupid about stealth tech.

but here is the thing : you make a move , we make a move .

you make stealth tech , we make VHF and X band stealth-detecting radars . we make PESA and AESA .

so no hard feelings when F-35s start dropping like flies outta sky . and no hard feelings either when they bomb the shizzam outta our forces .

Don't think the US defense department is worried about these magical Russian air defense systems . In fact ilk bet when Israelis go into Iran and takes them out I'll say they lose 1 or 2 aircraft. The Israelis have the best countermeasures on the world.That's why they are insisting on having there avionics package added to the f35.

a reply to: dragonridr

Obama Threatened Netanyahu That He Will Order U.S. Forces To Shoot Down Israeli Jet Fighters Headed To Destroy Iran’s Nuclear Reactors.

Not had lana online for a while now (or I'd post those links), but there was significant chatter three or four years ago on the reuters back channels that Isreal had already lost several planes inside Iran trying to do exactly that.

That link says: Israel plan to Strike Iran from Azerbaijan in 2012. -> but that the covert strategy was leaked by the Obama administration.
At the time it was that Turkey had reported the planes incoming to Iran, and Iran "may" have shot down several unidentified planes north of Tehran.
There was also all that junk with the protest ship around that time.


Given that was followed shortly after by the start of US negotiations with them. I would assume Iran and the US both agreed to "ignore" it. And Isreal never declares their loses anyway.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Yeah, you're right stealth is stupid. The US should just disband its air force now since it's useless. There's no point in even trying against Russian systems since they're the best in the world.

There is nothing stupid about stealth tech.

but here is the thing : you make a move , we make a move .

you make stealth tech , we make VHF and X band stealth-detecting radars . we make PESA and AESA .

so no hard feelings when F-35s start dropping like flies outta sky . and no hard feelings either when they bomb the shizzam outta our forces .

Don't think the US defense department is worried about these magical Russian air defense systems . In fact ilk bet when Israelis go into Iran and takes them out I'll say they lose 1 or 2 aircraft. The Israelis have the best countermeasures on the world.That's why they are insisting on having there avionics package added to the f35.

Russia is ahead of US in airdefense tech. by leaps and bounds .

Comparing Patriot PAC3 with even S-300PMU1 is merely a ridiculous notion . let alone PMU2 or S-400 .

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Yeah, you're right stealth is stupid. The US should just disband its air force now since it's useless. There's no point in even trying against Russian systems since they're the best in the world.

There is nothing stupid about stealth tech.

but here is the thing : you make a move , we make a move .

you make stealth tech , we make VHF and X band stealth-detecting radars . we make PESA and AESA .

so no hard feelings when F-35s start dropping like flies outta sky . and no hard feelings either when they bomb the shizzam outta our forces .

Don't think the US defense department is worried about these magical Russian air defense systems . In fact ilk bet when Israelis go into Iran and takes them out I'll say they lose 1 or 2 aircraft. The Israelis have the best countermeasures on the world.That's why they are insisting on having there avionics package added to the f35.

Russia is ahead of US in airdefense tech. by leaps and bounds .

Comparing Patriot PAC3 with even S-300PMU1 is merely a ridiculous notion . let alone PMU2 or S-400 .

Quite that you think so. First there is the meads system. Next patriots were upgraded again they red is inedible the missile made it smaller and faster quadrupled the range of its coverage . As for the meads system can do something Russian air defense wishes it could do it can fire on the move. Can literally follow behind troops no setup and gives 360 degree coverage again Russia is behind.

a reply to: mSparks43

Obama always fails to make good on his threats against proper countries. Remember the russian red line?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: mSparks43

Obama always fails to make good on his threats against proper countries. Remember the russian red line?

I agree and he wonders why other countries don't take him seriously any more. He has no foreign policy. Think it's time for a woman in the white house to jack slap some sense into all these world leaders lol.

a reply to: dragonridr
ok
can they shoot down an f35 or f22?

or

more importantly

an su37 (which. unlike the f35 or f22 is actually already being mass produced)

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr
ok
can they shoot down an f35 or f22?

or

more importantly

an su37 (which. unlike the f35 or f22 is actually already being mass produced)

Can they shoot down an Su 22 well they have a shot but again the advantage is to the pilot. Can an battery with integrated systems like meads yes. Pilot would have 5 missiles from 5 directions all launched to meet the target at the same time. And the F22 are already done producrion. The defense dept didn't order more thought with the Soviet Union gone no need for fighter Jets. Bet now they order more that Russia started all thus stuff with its neighbors. the F35 is currently on production so not sure what your talking about in fact Australia's shipment should be coming up this summer.

a reply to: dragonridr

for example. India already has 200 of the Russian 5th gen stealth aircraft.

god knows how many the Chinese have. thousands?

can the patriot shoot them down?

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

for example. India already has 200 of the Russian 5th gen stealth aircraft.

can the patriot shoot them down?

No they don't they are developing a 5th generation fighter. In fact 2 of them one with Russia and one independently. But I think they are seriously considering dropping the Russian fighter off the list. They think they can build their own. So on other words sure they can shoot down imaginary planes.

a reply to: dragonridr

that was the prototypes.

mass production of the various export variants (which all have different designations) started some 4 or 5 years ago.

all equipped with supercruise. very low RCS and radar capable of taking down an f22.

all of which are field upgraded as new tech is developed.

a reply to: mSparks43

Bull. Russia just cut its order for the initial batch to 12. The T-50 is far from production. India has already cut its order to 144 and isn't pleased with how development has gone. Production was supposed to start this year.

They hadn't even worked out the problems with the non-export version. There's no way the export versions would be produced and shipped.

a reply to: Zaphod58

that's one specific variant. in all there is at least 50 different variants. (unlike the f35 which tries to be a one size fits all)

all russian planes from the 90s have had vectored thrust.
low RCS started around 2005
the networked passive radar to target other fgfa started about 2010
final upgrade path ends at the start of 2016.

all that is "as standard" in russian planes based on the su30 airframe.

(in this I am definately not an expert, just my understanding of what they are producing)

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: Zaphod58

that's one specific variant. in all there is at least 50 different variants. (unlike the f35 which tries to be a one size fits all)

all russian planes from the 90s have had vectored thrust.
low RCS started around 2005
the networked passive radar to target other fgfa started about 2010
final upgrade path ends at the start of 2016.

all that is "as standard" in russian planes based on the su30 airframe.

(in this I am definately not an expert, just my understanding of what they are producing)

Indias PAk fa-t-50 variant.

Its In development and has not went into production past the few test beds. Right there in black and white with no russian flavor added.

a reply to: mSparks43

Um, you have no clue. The Su-30 variants aren't fifth generation. They don't have low RCS or super cruise. The first Russian super cruise engine is just now in development and is still a year from entering into service if development goes well. Russian engines have a lot of reliability issues. That's first hand from Russian pilots. They're better, but still have a lot of room for improvement.

The T-50 isn't related to the Su-30 or any other aircraft. It's their first fifth generation aircraft. The Su-30 family is 4.5+. You can reduce the RCS, but you can't make a fourth generation fighter stealthy.

As for the radar detecting F-22s, they've never gone up against an F-22 in combat.

a reply to: yuppa
From 2011.

in.rbth.com...

The upgraded fighters will have a new cockpit, an improved radar and stealth technology, making them more difficult for the enemy’s radars to detect. Currently, India’s Air Force has about 100 such fighters, arranged in five squadrons. Eventually, India will have over 230 aircraft of this type (13 squadrons).
India’s aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is producing the Su-30MKI under licence, at its plant in Bangalore. “Not only will the fighters currently deployed by India’s Air Force be modernised but also those to be produced under licence or directly supplied from Russia”, Fyodorov added. Most important, the plane will become a platform for deployment of heavy weapons, including BraMos supersonic cruise missiles”, he stressed.

Unlike the US, which went for a whole new plane.
Russian design retrofits the upgrades to the su30 airframe.
su37 proved the concepts (su37 is fgfa, but it uses an su30 airframe)

now the countries are buying the upgrades whenever they want.

T-50 is just one of the many, many variants in production, out there, and already in use, which will take the tech on them "to the next level" (decades ahead of the f35).

probably end up being another prototype.
only producing one or two prototypes is not news. its standard practice.

a reply to: mSparks43

The T-50 is NOT a variant, it's an entirely new aircraft. It has absolutely nothing to do with al any previous aircraft except that it's made by Sukhoi.

The Su-30 upgrade is similar to the F-15SE. It can reduce the RCS somewhat, but it can't be made stealthy.

a reply to: mSparks43

I gave you current information not from 2011. Dont BS me i can at least read.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If you look at the su30


you can see, for example you don't have to remove the front fins to get a T-50



It's just a different skin/shell on the same airframe. which is cheaply retrofitted to old planes.