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Russia lifts ban on delivering missile-defence system to Iran

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posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:26 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

satelites take several hours between being over an area. and give a feed that lasts a short period of time.

if they could rely on sat data they wouldn't need the recon drones and AWACS.

without AWACS and recon drones. pilots flying low are flying blind.

it's rare for a pilot to die from a sam.

it's rare for a pilot to survive aaa.

further, sam is not much use without an airforce.

it's not one or the other.
edit on 25-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 04:34 AM
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a reply to: mSparks43

Planes fly low without AWACS and recon UAVs all the time. AWACS tells them if there are airborne targets near them that's all.

Pilots study their routes for days ahead of a mission.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: mSparks43

Thats why you make them able to SYNCH to stay above that location.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

And where exactly do you think those routes come from?



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: mSparks43

Satellite photos and Intel sources. The routes are picked out well in advance of launching a mission.

All a UAV is going to do is confirm them. At low level a SAM is going to have a couple seconds to find, target, and fire on an incoming aircraft. They'll bypass as many sites as they hit.

AWACS is only going to tell them if aircraft are launched while they're inbound and only cover a couple hundred miles of their route.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

satelites can't give you the location of sams and aaa.

for that you need high resolution imaging and rf emissions and by the minute movement of hardware.

satelite imagery takes months just to find a building that shouldn't be there. let alone a cluster of camouflaged mobile installations that changes its position every 6 hours. and is guaranteed to move the moment you embark on a mission.

and no.
s300 has the entire mission to target and engage (only obviously better to hit them before they hit the target)

the missiles themselves will usually get at least 20 minutes to get themselves into an optimum intercept location once a kill decision has been made.

they then get a minute or so window to actually launch.

Intel sources = AWACS and other high altitude spy planes.
edit on 25-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: mSparks43

Routes are planned to give you the best ways in and out. That means terrain to hide behind. You plan your routes based on that. A B-1 at near mach 1, flying low behind hills is going to have a two or three second area of vulnerability as it avoids terrain, or going from behind one piece of terrain to another.

That's not enough time to find, identify, lock and shoot. UAVs and other sources are used to refine threats along the route, but they're only good for a small portion of it. They can't go all the way along the route. At a certain point the aircraft is on its own anyway.

Funny though that a few pages ago you were saying that satellites could use IR to see through walls, now their IR sensors take months to even find a building.
edit on 4/25/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

aside from the fact that doesn't hide you from an s300 passive radar. let alone any of the new stuff.

flying like that is a great way to get a plane and it's pilot shredded by aaa.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: Zaphod58

aside from the fact that doesn't hide you from an s300 passive radar. let alone any of the new stuff.

flying like that is a great way to get a plane and it's pilot shredded by aaa.


Passive radar isn't nwe and definately not effective see it let's you know something is in the area. But you stull need to power up the radar to get lock. Alot of passive radars are not much diffrent for example Russia likes to use fm signals. By the way stealth easily blocks these. VHF they don't but easy to scramble. Again the pilot has all the advantages. If your relying on Sams to keep an airspace you already lost.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: mSparks43

Yes it does. EM doesn't travel through rock, nor does it curve around it. Once it starts to go into solid earth, the ground absorbs it. That's why terrain blocks radar to begin with.


Most electromagnetic waves will be absorbed by the surface of the solid earth or, if high frequency enough by turning solid into liquid and plasma long before it can reach any metastable point in the tectonic plates to trigger an earthquake. The electromagnetic interaction with matter is too strong. It is the extremely low frequency, ELF waves that the video talks about that can penetrate without transmitting their energy into heat in the first meters. Part of their energy is turned into vibration of matter, as also seen in the video.

physics.stackexchange.com...

You're not going to even see an incoming aircraft at mach 1 before it's a couple seconds out. You have to see it, identify it, target it, and fire before it passes overhead. It would require a super computer to do it.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Funny part was Obama and his response to the sale. He was like well I'm surprised they hadn't done it already. And than said if we want to we could one penetrate thier air defenses. Israelis are pissed at the Obama administration because they think the US iSnr supporting them. When I think in truth if they asked for help they would probably get sypport. But Bebe wouldn't do that now lol. I think part of ot is the US has access to the S300 knows what it does and how it works Israelis do not.
edit on 4/25/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The S300 is a good system, but nowhere near as dangerous as claimed in this thread. Passive radar has come a long way and will ALMOST let you shoot without an active component until the missile goes active, but won't be there for another generation or two.

The S400 is far more deadly, but even that isn't unbeatable. I can think is two interesting systems that are white world that will make being a SAM crew member exciting.



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

The S300 is a good system, but nowhere near as dangerous as claimed in this thread. Passive radar has come a long way and will ALMOST let you shoot without an active component until the missile goes active, but won't be there for another generation or two.

The S400 is far more deadly, but even that isn't unbeatable. I can think is two interesting systems that are white world that will make being a SAM crew member exciting.


Laser systems like Israelis iron beam?? Russia hasn't even seen the truly high tech stuff like the laws systems they really have no clue how behind they are.[
Can you imagine if they go after Iran and they send out their boats and suddenly they all stop working lol.
edit on 4/25/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2015 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

HPM, UAV swarms, electric laser.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 04:54 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

em doesn't travel through rock.
true enough.
it is reflected.
and by that reflection travels round it.

which gives you a complete picture of the entire battle space of any movement above 25m from ground level all the way up to some 125km.

and most of that lower limit is because of things like buildings and trees which make processing the reflections too complicated. and flying suicidal.

a single missile has a range radius of 125km
at mach 1. - 600ms. gives you 200 plus seconds to launch if the aircraft is heading straight for your position before it flies over head.

s300 is a system.
so the missiles will have their target designated by the command vehicle long before it enters the range of an individual truck that launches the missiles.

at greater disadvantage is the pilot. who's threat detection system will give them about 1 to 2 seconds warning before the missile impacts their plane. up until that final impact the entire s300 is complete stealth. with the only em to detect being the commands being relayed between vehicles and relay stations.

the best of the s range sam missiles can turn at some 10g.

what's the best an f35 can do?
edit on 26-4-2015 by mSparks43 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 05:32 AM
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originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: Zaphod58

em doesn't travel through rock.
true enough.
it is reflected.
and by that reflection travels round it.

which gives you a complete picture of the entire battle space of any movement above 25m from ground level all the way up to some 125km.

and most of that lower limit is because of things like buildings and trees which make processing the reflections too complicated. and flying suicidal.

a single missile has a range radius of 125km
at mach 1. - 600ms. gives you 200 plus seconds to launch if the aircraft is heading straight for your position before it flies over head.

s300 is a system.
so the missiles will have their target designated by the command vehicle long before it enters the range of an individual truck that launches the missiles.

at greater disadvantage is the pilot. who's threat detection system will give them about 1 to 2 seconds warning before the missile impacts their plane. up until that final impact the entire s300 is complete stealth. with the only em to detect being the commands being relayed between vehicles and relay stations.

the best of the s range sam missiles can turn at some 10g.

what's the best an f35 can do?


Wow gone to rewriting physics now have we you are good. No EM does not bounce off the ground see in physics em radiation excites atoms in other words passes energy along to them. And the rate of turn of a missile is controlled by something called centrifugal force. A missile making a 10 g turn really it tear itself apart if it tried to turm to sharp they can go up to 40 or more but they have a bigger turn radious.Now as we said Iran isn't going to have a game changer here you do realize were talking about 6 systems don't you. And the s300 isn't a threat thw US knows it's detection capabilities. But you can believe this to be some sort of super weopon if you like. But I'll make a bet here if Russia gives them these systems. They will be knocked out within 6 months. Probably sooner and it will peobably be done by droans really slow ones that can fly in extremely low.. Don't think the Israelis are just going to set back here they wont. If they perceive something as a threat they remove it.

Though YOU Might Want To READ THIS
defenseissues.wordpress.com...


edit on 4/26/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: mSparks43

The back side of a mountain is a blank spot. You can't bend a radar beam to see on the back side. That's why it's called "terrain masking". There is no physical way to bend an EM signal to see the back side of terrain and get it to a radar antenna. EM travels in a straight line. It doesn't bend.

You'd have to have multiple antennas looking at both sides of the mountain to see everything. Then they'd have to talk to each other. That link would be vulnerable to jamming or homing on.
edit on 4/26/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

you are talking about active radar systems like the Americans and British use.

the s300 is a passive multi receiver system and has no such limitations.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: mSparks43

It doesn't matter. EM is EM. It's going to act the same way. You can't bounce it to see the back side of a mountain whether it's a cell signal, a television signal, or an active radar signal. It travels in a straight line, period.



posted on Apr, 26 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

you are completely misunderstanding the way the em is being processed.

they are not. in any way shape or form measuring the bounce.

they take the phase and other differences of all the recievers of background radiation - sat transmissions. tv radio etc and use that to construct a 3 dimensional representation of the airflow.

best analogy I can think of is like knowing a ship is sailing on the sea from an aeroplane because you can see the waves it leaves behind.



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