Is our moon artificial? The lesser known smoking gun fact

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: genma

We can also look at native American oral history where they discuss the fact there was a point in time where the moon was not present.

Just because someone looks cool in eagle feathers doesn't mean they aren't talking crap.

Creation myths are just that, myths, and "a time before the moon" is as nice a way as any of saying 'like, ages ago'.

funny 'cause the a priori assumptions in that statement make the conclusion ironic

occams razor says the ancients were telling it like it is

So, ants. crows, spiders and coyotes can talk?

Harte

pretty much, it's called communication [ex ants use pheromones]
you think crows and coyotes when acting like a coordinated group aren't communicating?

also humans being able to "speak" with animals is a common result of shamanic initiations, usualy in ther form of learning a new language.

also, in many traditions, it is known that when an animal seems to speak to one as if it were a human,
it is a sign, that one has crossed the lines of ordinary reality and should take note of everything that happens.

and that's not bringing up TP, Glossolalia[speaking in tongues], or empathy.

originally posted by: CrashUnderride
For the love of all that is holy. Sound doesn't travel in space, therefore the moon could not possibly ring!!!!!!!

wiki says you're mistaken,
en.wikipedia.org...

In physics, sound is a vibration that propagates as a typically audible mechanical wave of pressure and displacement, through a medium such as air or water. In physiology and psychology, sound is the reception of such waves and their perception by the brain.[1]
Sound can propagate through compressible media such as air, water and solids as longitudinal waves and also as a transverse waves in solids

a ringing vibration could be picked by astronauts through their contact with the ground.

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: Xcathdra

a reply to: genma



We can also look at native American oral history where they discuss the fact there was a point in time where the moon was not present.

Just because someone looks cool in eagle feathers doesn't mean they aren't talking crap.



Creation myths are just that, myths, and "a time before the moon" is as nice a way as any of saying 'like, ages ago'.

funny 'cause the a priori assumptions in that statement make the conclusion ironic



occams razor says the ancients were telling it like it is

So, ants. crows, spiders and coyotes can talk?



Harte

pretty much, it's called communication [ex ants use pheromones]

you think crows and coyotes when acting like a coordinated group aren't communicating?

Maybe, but do you think they are telling stories of ancient times?

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

also humans being able to "speak" with animals is a common result of shamanic initiations, usualy in ther form of learning a new language.

I believe you've not read much native American mythology.

Also, you would have a hard time communicating some of these stories through pheromones.

Harte

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
a ringing vibration could be picked by astronauts through their contact with the ground.

Unfortunately we don't hear with our feet.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
a ringing vibration could be picked by astronauts through their contact with the ground.

Unfortunately we don't hear with our feet.

really? never made a phone with 2 cans and some string?

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
a ringing vibration could be picked by astronauts through their contact with the ground.

Unfortunately we don't hear with our feet.

really? never made a phone with 2 cans and some string?

I doubt I would be able to hear the can-string telephone if I had my foot up against the open end of the can rather than my ear. There are plenty of vibrations I can hear if I put my ear to the floor (or other carrier of a vibration) that I cannot hear when I stand on the floor.


I think if an Apollo astronaut put the side of his helmet to the Moon's surface (like he would his ear) and had another astronaut stomp the ground next to him, there is a good chance that he may hear the sound of the stomping travel through the ground, to the helmet, through the air in the helmet, and to his eardrum...

...However, I doubt that same astronaut would hear his partner stomping on the ground if he was relying on the sound propagating to his eardrum through his feet.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: Xcathdra

a reply to: genma



We can also look at native American oral history where they discuss the fact there was a point in time where the moon was not present.

Just because someone looks cool in eagle feathers doesn't mean they aren't talking crap.



Creation myths are just that, myths, and "a time before the moon" is as nice a way as any of saying 'like, ages ago'.

funny 'cause the a priori assumptions in that statement make the conclusion ironic



occams razor says the ancients were telling it like it is

So, ants. crows, spiders and coyotes can talk?



Harte

pretty much, it's called communication [ex ants use pheromones]

you think crows and coyotes when acting like a coordinated group aren't communicating?

Maybe, but do you think they are telling stories of ancient times?

originally posted by: AdamuBureido

also humans being able to "speak" with animals is a common result of shamanic initiations, usualy in ther form of learning a new language.

I believe you've not read much native American mythology.

Also, you would have a hard time communicating some of these stories through pheromones.

Harte

never read comic books/graphic novels?

In many comic books, words that would be foreign to the narration but are displayed in translation for the reader are surrounded by angle brackets or chevrons .

Gilbert Hernandez's series about Palomar is written in English, but supposed to take place mainly in a Hispanic country. Thus, what's supposed to be representations of Spanish speech is written without brackets, but occasional actual English speech is written within brackets, to indicate that it is unintelligible to the main Hispanophone characters in the series.

Some comics will have the actual foreign language in the speech balloon, with the translation as a footnote; this is done with Latin aphorisms in Asterix.

Another convention is to put the foreign speech in a distinctive lettering style; for example, Asterix's Goths speak in blackletter.

Since the Japanese language uses two writing directionalities (vertical, which is the traditional direction; and horizontal, as most other languages), manga has a convention of representing translated foreign speech as horizontal text.

it's called a convention

y'know, like when non-asians are depicted with enlarged canines in Manga and Anime

no i don't really know much about native mythology, my stepmother, being 1/4 Mohawk explained that non-native researchers, no matter how well intentioned were looking from the outside in, thus their interpretations are flawed
one approaches the elders and learns from them, without a middleman.


how well read are you regarding voudoun or similar traditions?
devotees of Anansi [Guédé Zaranye], Baron Zaraguin, and Madame L'Airagnee, would vehemently disagree, regarding both your points.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

why are you twisting what i'm saying?
you've never felt a train or other approaching heavy vehicle before you saw it?

so if you don't use your ears it's not sound then?

sound IS vibration one could even say its the first of the senses.

Seriously, the way some people are attempting to "debunk" the so called ringing one would think you were actually there manning the experiment.

you weren't


This is known as a clue


a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
you are nitpicking...

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

why are you twisting what i'm saying?
you've never felt a train or other approaching heavy vehicle before you saw it?

so if you don't use your ears it's not sound then?

sound IS vibration one could even say its the first of the senses.

A sound is a vibration, but not every vibration is a sound.

The seismometers on the moon picked up long-lasting vibrations that (due to the length of time the vibrations continued to propogate) can be described as "ringing like a bell" or "vibrating like a tuning fork". However, there was no audible sound associated with it -- just vibrations on a seismograph.

A seismograph on Earth may pick up a vibration, but the person standing next to that seismograph may never hear an audible sound.

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
Seriously, the way some people are attempting to "debunk" the so called ringing one would think you were actually there manning the experiment.

you weren't...

Well, here are the facts of the experiment that prompted someone to say "it rang like a bell".

- Seismometers were set up by Apollo 12 in November 1969.

- In April 1970, the SIV-B booster rocket from Apollo13 was intentionally crashed into the moon 85 miles from those seismometers in order to find out information about lunar geology.

- That crash vibrated the seismographs longer than expected, which caused geologists on Earth to say that it "rang like a bell", meaning that the reverberations lasted longer than they thought they would.

- It is thought that this longer-than-expect vibration (and moonquakes in general) lasted longer than earthquakes because the Earth is more cracked due to weathering while the Moon is more solid and less cracked.

So if the Moon is like a bell, then the Earth is like a cracked bell.

Sources:
er.jsc.nasa.gov...
www.nasa.gov...

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
Seriously, the way some people are attempting to "debunk" the so called ringing one would think you were actually there manning the experiment.

you weren't


This is known as a clue

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
you are nitpicking...

And the way some people use the qoute "rang like a bell" to try to insinuate the moon is hollow is quite pathetic.

Take a solid metal or rock sphere and hit it with a hammer. It will resonate. Like a bell.

Now stop being ignorant.

originally posted by: PheonixReborn

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
Seriously, the way some people are attempting to "debunk" the so called ringing one would think you were actually there manning the experiment.

you weren't


This is known as a clue

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
you are nitpicking...

And the way some people use the qoute "rang like a bell" to try to insinuate the moon is hollow is quite pathetic.

Take a solid metal or rock sphere and hit it with a hammer. It will resonate. Like a bell.

Now stop being ignorant.

no, you
please link to were I said such a thing
and while you're doing that

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

please make up your mind...

originally posted by: AdamuBureido
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

please make up your mind...

Between what and what? I thought my responses have been relatively consistent.

I suppose I'm confused about your position on this. I'm saying that the phrase "rang like a bell" was used more as an expression than a literal description. The Moon did vibrate, but the only thing bell-like about that vibration is that it reverberated for an extended period of time. However, that vibration was not a ringing. Whether it was a long duration vibration or a short duration vibration, the actual vibration was not literally a "ringing", just like short duration earthquake vibration on earth is not literally a "ringing".

It was a vibration from a crashed spent rocket engine hitting the Moon 85 miles away that was picked up by seismometers. If an astronaut was standing next to the seismometer, he almost certainly would not have heard any sound being produced by the vibration (although that's a moot point, because there were no astronauts on the Moon at the time), just like seismographs on Earth may be registering vibrations that cannot he heard.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
If an astronaut was standing next to the seismometer, he almost certainly would not have heard any sound being produced by the vibration (although that's a moot point, because there were no astronauts on the Moon at the time), just like seismographs on Earth may be registering vibrations that cannot he heard.

If an astronaut was standing next to a giant ringing bell on the Moon, he wouldn't hear that either.

The people in this thread that want this to be an audible "ringing" need to think about what medium is required for sound to travel, as well as what range of vibrations are actually audible.

Can any of these bell ringers see in microwaves? That would be a similar claim.

Harte

a reply to: bananashooter

I think you are correct. I came across this same topic a few days ago and the "ring" was, indeed, described as more of a vibration than an audible sound. The "ring" of the moon went on much, much longer than a solid core should have allowed for. Don't remember exactly where I saw this article, unfortunately, otherwise I'd link it.

originally posted by: ufomg
... The "ring" of the moon went on much, much longer than a solid core should have allowed for....

Actually, it's almost the opposite that is thought to be the reason for the extended vibration (sort of).

It's true that moonquakes and such vibrate for a longer time on the Moon than earthquakes on Earth, but that is thought to be due to the moon's crust being more monolithic and less cracked than the Earth.

Vibrations on Earth, such as earthquakes, dampen quickly. This is due to weathering and water infiltration, which causes the Earth's crust to be more cracked than the moon. The cracked Earth dampens vibrations much more quickly, just like a cracked bell or a broken tuning fork would not vibrate as long as a non-cracked bell of tuning fork


This article explains it:
Moonquakes

Excerpt:

On Earth, vibrations from quakes usually die away in only half a minute. The reason has to do with chemical weathering, Neal explains: "Water weakens stone, expanding the structure of different minerals. When energy propagates across such a compressible structure, it acts like a foam sponge--it deadens the vibrations." Even the biggest earthquakes stop shaking in less than 2 minutes.

The moon, however, is dry, cool and mostly rigid, like a chunk of stone or iron. So moonquakes set it vibrating like a tuning fork. Even if a moonquake isn't intense, "it just keeps going and going," Neal says. And for a lunar habitat, that persistence could be more significant than a moonquake's magnitude.