Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

a reply to: ketsuko

I only said those as counterpoints to consider. Again, this event wasn't meant to treat people's psychological problems. It is easier to just submit to the request and move on. Jazz hands or clapping. Who really cares? If a group of people feels more comfortable with one over the other, then fine I'll do that one. It's just a show of appreciation. Such things aren't locked in stone nor is changing them a mortal sin.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
Big things made of nothing, so they had a request some of the speakers had a request, it truly is distracting when people make a ton of noise in the middle of a speech, I hate it when public speaking myself.

So what, give up public speaking if you don't like it. Society pretty much everywhere uses applause to show appreciation and support. That isn't going to change anytime soon, even if the NUS Women tweet a request. Do you really think if the NUS Womens group had a free vote to bring 'jazz hands' in that they would get a majority? I don't, and until that democratic group have a free vote on it as a policy issue, clapping is still officially acceptable in that organisation.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: pfishy

Rot? The only rot I see is making fun of a group of people who decide to hold their meetings slightly differently than most people do.

OK I am assuming you are a man, and you see nothing wrong with the idea that entire groups of women are unable to feel safe in the presence of a man?

I'm a woman, and I see enormous problems with that statement.

Try taking out women and man and inserting various ethnic and religious groups. Go ahead. Have a ball, and then get back to us and whether or not we're just making fun of people holding their meetings differently. Think of the jazz hands bit as a mere distraction to the real problem.

There are underlying reasons why those particular women feel unsafe around men. Again, that's a medical issue, another disability which should be kept in it's proper context, that being, violence against women.

Ok, i made fun earlier, but this kinda makes sense. Applause sounds like a thousand woman all being struck across the face by their husbands. I could see where that would be unnerving.

originally posted by: Urantia1111

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: pfishy

Rot? The only rot I see is making fun of a group of people who decide to hold their meetings slightly differently than most people do.

OK I am assuming you are a man, and you see nothing wrong with the idea that entire groups of women are unable to feel safe in the presence of a man?

I'm a woman, and I see enormous problems with that statement.

Try taking out women and man and inserting various ethnic and religious groups. Go ahead. Have a ball, and then get back to us and whether or not we're just making fun of people holding their meetings differently. Think of the jazz hands bit as a mere distraction to the real problem.

There are underlying reasons why those particular women feel unsafe around men. Again, that's a medical issue, another disability which should be kept in it's proper context, that being, violence against women.

Ok, i made fun earlier, but this kinda makes sense. Applause sounds like a thousand woman all being struck across the face by their husbands. I could see where that would be unnerving.

Wow. Well, if we didn't get that you were joking earlier in an attempt to rile up the others on this thread, I'm sure we all do now.
Your parents must be very proud...

a reply to: pfishy

Yes. I've made such mistakes before too. It happens to everyone. I appreciate you owning up to it though. I always try to do the same.

And I agree, bigotry in all directions is wrong. I don't like to call myself a feminist because I feel that label can lead too much backlash in favor of women over men. I like the term humanist. I want equality for all no matter what, but in order to obtain that, currently, one has to side with MANY feminist ideals and desires. Cause, frankly women AREN'T equal yet.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: pfishy

Yes. I've made such mistakes before too. It happens to everyone. I appreciate you owning up to it though. I always try to do the same.

And I agree, bigotry in all directions is wrong. I don't like to call myself a feminist because I feel that label can lead too much backlash in favor of women over men. I like the term humanist. I want equality for all no matter what, but in order to obtain that, currently, one has to side with MANY feminist ideals and desires. Cause, frankly women AREN'T equal yet.

Neither are many racial, religious or gender/sexuality minorities. And while I truly believe this is thoroughly unjust, and will gladly stand with any member of them in the struggle to correct this, the people who make a living by always finding ways to identify anything they don't like by labeling it as discrimination are an absolute cancer. And I would confidently argue that they consistently set back the cause they claim to be fighting for by doing so.
Also, even though I am a heterosexual male, I gladly call myself a feminist, and am a vocal proponent of LGBT, minority and religious rights. I could tell you a couple of other things about myself, but I'm a bit worried I'd be labeled a liar, or people's heads would explode.

a reply to: pfishy

Wouldn't surprise me. I spend most of my time on these forums dispelling people's preconceived notions about my beliefs and positions. People like to assume things about you if you don't agree with them.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Feminists just want everyone to bow down to them. They are offended by pretty much everything and make themselves difficult to be around.

This is the typical demand of equal rights by lobbying for special conditions. GLBT groups pull crap like this all the time. "I just want to be treated like everyone else so here is a list of special treatment I would like that is specific to my gender or orientation"

Don't forget Christians. They pull the same stuff too and are offended by pretty much everything as well and make themselves difficult to be around also.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I couldn't resist this one… I knew there must be a Richard Simmons jazz hands picture! Tweeted this ridiculous story with this:

Hmmm... Well I guess as long at the site owner thinks it's funny...

Facts Schmachts Amiright?

a reply to: burdman30ott6


Actually "jazz hands" in the air up by your head is the American Sign Language for clapping so I guess we can say the feminists stole it from them.

a reply to: grainofsand

The hand waving is not a sign per se. It is to show appreciation visually to the deaf speakers/performers.

Both Americans and British people do the same.

The real sign for applause in ASL and BSL are the same - clapping of hands.

I can think of one place where I'd prefer jazz hands to clapping: the State of the Union Address.

Instead of being an opportunity to address the state of the Union, it's become more like a pep rally. The President speaks a sentence - clapping for 30 seconds. Another sentence - pause for another round of clapping. If Congress used jazz hands instead, the President could get through the whole speech a lot sooner.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
I can think of one place where I'd prefer jazz hands to clapping: the State of the Union Address.

Instead of being an opportunity to address the state of the Union, it's become more like a pep rally. The President speaks a sentence - clapping for 30 seconds. Another sentence - pause for another round of clapping. If Congress used jazz hands instead, the President could get through the whole speech a lot sooner.

He might even have time to work one or two significant bit of information into it.

a reply to: Deaf Alien
Yep, I got that off my deaf mate earlier. I asked for clarification and he texted me again saying it is a rare thing in his deaf social circles and considers it a ridiculous US import, not a British thing.
I was only replying really to another member who suggested it was an ASL sign which was relevant to a British student union request on behalf of some delegates who may suffer distress if people clapped in support of them while public speaking.
Again though, the NUS Womens group is a democratic organisation and they would need an all-member free vote to change/create any policy regarding clapping at conference. They have not done that so clapping is still an officially acceptable method of showing support at their meetings.
The whole thing over a single tweet is a bit of a lame story in my opinion.

Live and let live. Those that actually attend and listen to the speakers can waggle as they choose, should any speakers actually deserve applause or finger waving. This group is living in their own reality and have their own culture much like the Trekkies, Furries, and Comicon superhero people at their conventions. Klingon pain sticks for speakers that displease and especially for any large synthetic fur bearers or people wearing tights and capes.
Actually, I find many speakers are hand wavers to begin with so an auditorium of hand wavers should make these folks feel that they are surrounded by kindred spirits and not trigger any anxieties.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Wait BH, how does this compare? In your case you asked for permission to deal with your issue YOURSELF. You did not ask ATS to change their ads, nor did you demand that the site change itself in any way to accommodate you... YOU made the change. In this case, those demanding special accommodations are looking at everyone around them to change to accommodate the few.

I asked ATS to do something... to allow me to break T&C to accommodate my needs. THEY complied. Of course it's not exactly the same thing and you're always going to be able to find differences between two analogous situations, so you can draw a line and justify your position. But since when is ASKING (I didn't see any "demands) for something a reason to attack someone so vigorously? I just don't get it. Is it because you sense weakness?

Maybe it's my problem. Maybe I'm just too "soft". Too compassionate. I understand what it's like to be scared out of my mind. I understand what it's like to have life experiences so traumatic that certain things set me off and I have NO control over my response. I understand what it's like to be afraid of most men. I have worked on it for a lifetime and I've made great progress, but I'm still not where I want to be. But over those years, I asked for accommodations from other people (and sometimes demanded it). Fortunately, the people in my life were understanding and compassionate and didn't mind doing what they could to help me along.

Obviously these women ARE working on their issues, but they're not "there" yet, either. They have a huge fear of public speaking, but are facing it head on and asking for a little help in doing that. I just don't see that as something that should be shamed, as SO MANY here are doing... I know I would be more than happy to use "jazz hands" instead of applauding to help them out. How does it put me out? How does granting "special treatment" to these women to help them get through something affect me? It doesn't.

I just don't get the fury, man. I don't understand it. So someone asks for help... WTF? Maybe you can tell me what I'm missing - why I should be furious and hate on these women...

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: burdman30ott6

They also ban photography at events as it may intimidate delegates from overseas, so our photo is a suggestion of what the delegates might look like.

Now I see why they're angry.

Feminists or just wannabe punks? Difficult to see.

Jude11

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I wonder if they would be mindful of my request for an ice chest full of beer when I attend?

a reply to: ItCameFromOuterSpace
I wonder how pissed the blind are going to be with this request?

I would give some applause.....