Putin's New "Protocols"

a reply to: Strawberry88

There are without a single doubt extremists in power in the Ukraine.

There are without doubts extremists in Ukraine. There are also extremists in Russia. In Ukraine, the extremists are not in power. If you wish to prove that they are, start another thread and post evidence.

BEFORE ANY OF THE RIOTING STARTED, THE EUROPEAN MEDIA was reporting on this

First attempt to derail thread. Yes, there were extremists in Ukraine, they were being reported, particularly in the media serving the Jewish community, because Jewish people found them frightening. Upshot: Jews were not supporting them.

Please DJ if you do ONE thing with your thread, then explain to me why MY LOCAL MEDIA was first telling me that extremist neo-nazis were involved in the new Ukraine regime

Second attempt to derail thread. Because there were three members of Svoboda, a right wing party, filling ministerial portfolios in the interim government. Three out of seventeen. After the election, when the Svoboda party failed to poll over 5%, these ministers resigned. Please explain how this is connected to the Jews financing the Nazis.

TO THEN DROP THAT LINE as soon as things turned out to be getting serious???

Third attempt to derail this thread. This point is irrelevant.

I'll tell you why, DJ, since I'm close enough to tell you, and care enough to at least give this one more attempt, on top of what other members have already tried but failed;

PROPAGANDA WORKS BOTH WAYS, INCLUDING BY NOT SAYING THINGS

Fourth attempt to derail thread. I agree. All sides use propaganda. Some propaganda is more malicious than others, however.

It is FACT that the west was engaged in destabilising Ukraine

Fifth attempt to derail thread. Not only irrelevant but false. Feel free to argue this point, with evidence, on one of the many relevant threads.

HOWEVER I am also certain that THIS was not their intended direction

Sixth attempt to derail thread. Irrelevant.

BUT now that SHTF they have chosen to play the blame game, LIKE CHILDREN.

Seventh attempt to derail the thread. Irrelevant.

"Let's play ball in the living room!"

Nobody intends to break a vase, but when it happens, EVERYONE BLAMES EACHOTHER

Eighth attempt to derail the thread. Specious analogy... and irrelevant.

If this is really hard to grasp for you, you, in all honesty, have no place on a board like ATS

Ninth attempt to derail the thread. Further ad hom attacks will be reported as a violation of T&C.

Denying ignorance is a ridiculous statement when you refuse to deny ALL ignorance. You're still ignorant as hell if you're going to choose to believe propaganda is something that gets pulled out every now and then by evil empires. YOU ARE THE PRODUCT OF PROPAGANDA. You likely never been to Russia, or Ukraine, so what the hell do you even know besides what MSM ALLOWS you to know and society CHOOSES to enrich itself with?

Please address the points I made in the OP. Why do you believe the Russian propaganda is the truth? Provide evidence, please.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Broad spacing is tactical; it eats up space, causing the "page" to turn faster. This is used by propagandists to "bury" posts they cannot refute; casual browsers will not go back a page to follow the whole thread, once they land on the last page after replying to the OP. Sneaky, but effective.

a reply to: Strawberry88

He freely admitted that there is Western propaganda at work in his reply to you. Do you not see it?

Your postings are derailing the thread. This is a thread about the supposition that Nazis are in control of Ukraine, and also somehow supported/fomented by the Jews. His assertion is that the supposition is false. Do you disagree? If so, provide evidence of Nazi control of the Ukraine government. Provide evidence of Jewish control of Ukraine.

You can argue propaganda all you want, but that is not what this discussion is about.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Broad spacing is tactical; it eats up space, causing the "page" to turn faster. This is used by propagandists to "bury" posts they cannot refute; casual browsers will not go back a page to follow the whole thread, once they land on the last page after replying to the OP. Sneaky, but effective.

HAHAHA!


I already replied to that, explaining that that is the way I like to read things and thus that is how I formulate them

But whatever, I'm a Russian shill I'm sure, so go ahead and just say it will you

a reply to: Strawberry88

Is that your new style of debate DJ?

Is what my new style of debate?

Not joining in on the fun though, sorry

No loss, if you refuse to stay on topic.

Good luck getting that removed for T&C, you're still ignorant if you think you're denying ignorance, by only admitting to russian propaganda

Getting what removed? I'm simply reminding you that if you want to play here, there are rules you need to follow: keep the eye on the ball, not on each other.

Where exactly did I state I believe Russian propaganda to be true?

When you said this:

It is FACT that the west was engaged in destabilising Ukraine

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I stand with this, even though it's "derailing the thread" like every opinion that is not part of your circle jerk

Language! (And way off topic, as usual.)

"Let's play ball in the living room!

Nobody intends to break a vase, but when it happens, EVERYONE BLAMES EACHOTHER

Please explain how this metaphor is relevant to Russia's use of Anti-Semitic tropes in Ukraine.

Bye DJ

Be seeing you!

a reply to: Strawberry88

So, using whatever format you wish, please refute my OP instead of dragging things off topic.

Stop asking for sources when you already know you're going to claim the source is invalid


Thanks in advance from all people who do not function within (western)MSM boundaries. My news does not need to be approved by Reuters

None of you probably even live near the Ukraine. The news you all get is worlds apart from the news I get
But yep, I'm responsible for the fact that no "valid" sources are available in English



Blame your goddamn MSM for keeping you in the dark.
I get it, attacking other random people is a tactic to deal with your own frustrations, we do it all the time, me too, but it's f*cking pathetic.

a reply to: Strawberry88

All I'm asking for is a source that doesn't link back to the Kremlin, or a source with good annotations to further research that I can do on my own to verify the claims. To be clear, I actually LIKE RT when it comes to general news. They report on things the US usually ignores. But when it comes to matters of Ukraine, RT is in full-on propaganda spin mode. The West certainly engages in propaganda of it's own as well. All I'm asking for is a single source that I can independently verify.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Strawberry88

Where exactly did I state I believe Russian propaganda to be true?

When you said this:

It is FACT that the west was engaged in destabilising Ukraine

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wow, that's "me stating Russian propaganda as true" now? Agreeing with one of their talking points? Yeah, good talking to you, reminds me how indoctrinated some people really are.


Where I live politicians and journalists alike have no problems admitting that the West was involved in destabilisation.


I guess that's because we actually live close enough and are aware enough to realise all actions have consequences, even when we DONT like them



But I'm really not going to continue "derailing" your thread, since it's obvious where this is going.


Facts are irrelevant in this day and age, that much is certain For both sides, I'm sure

a reply to: Strawberry88

In order to prove that the Ukraine government is filled with Nazis, all you have to do is post links to biographical materials, speeches and so forth. To prove that Jews are behind them, all you have to do is find documentation... photographs of stolen documents and wiretaps might be acceptable if they can be verified. You do not have to limit yourself to "Western Main Stream Media," but you do need to provide a variety of different sources that corroborate the claim. Blog posts, unless they are credible, first person accounts accompanied by photographs and/or video, cannot be considered anything more than opinion, rumor, or even fabrication, whether the blogger is an American, a Russian, a Ukrainian or an extraterrestrial time traveler from the future. Yes, there are such blogs here in the West so I hope you can understand why we are so skeptical here.

a reply to: Strawberry88

Wow, that's "me stating Russian propaganda as true" now? Agreeing with one of their talking points?

Not only agreeing with the talking point, but cleaving to their prescribed terminology.

Yeah, good talking to you, reminds me how indoctrinated some people really are.

And the usual ad hom, for good effect.

Where I live politicians and journalists alike have no problems admitting that the West was involved in destabilisation

But do they emphasize the role the Kremlin played in "destabilizing" Ukraine? In any event, this is irrelevant. I have explained how you can begin to chip away at the OP, if that is really your intent.

Israel supports EU sanctions against Russia to help Ukraine and take control of it....

www.haaretz.com...

Opps...my bad. Israel, the biggest den of Jews on earth, has NOT done a damn thing to help Ukraine against Russia annexing parts and killings Ukrainians.

I'm starting to think Russian propaganda isn't fitting with reality!

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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Thank you. Hopefully we can now return to the actual topic of this thread in a spirit of equanimity.

I invite people who believe that Jews are supporting the Nazis to provide evidence. Since you seem reticent, I will broaden the sort of evidence that will be acceptable to me. How about any item from the Main Stream Russian Media that presents a claim of Jewish support for the Nazis in Ukraine? There are still a handful of outlets, ITAR-TASS, Kommersant, to a limited extent now, Sputnik and a few other privately owned TV stations. If one of them presents the claim in a fashion that shows that, in their opinion as impartial journalists, the claim is true, I will take it seriously.

Let me clarify: what makes these media outlets credible is that they are vested in retaining their credibility. Unlike media intended for domestic consumption, which they know will not be fact checked, certain media concerns know that what the publish will be regarded with a skeptical eye by foreign academics, statesmen and businessmen. If they lose their credibility over any single issue, it potentially throws all of Russia's real accomplishments into doubt. If ITAR-TASS is caught lying outright about Ukraine, scientists might not believe them when they announce that a crewed Russian spacecraft is on the way to the Moon. Diplomats might not believe that a Russian politician has the authority to negotiate the way the press reports. Businessmen might not want to invest in a venture that ITAR-TASS may have puffed up.

As I have explained elsewhere, a handful of brave (or perhaps self-interested) outlets continue to use proper journalistic style: they make it clear who made a given statement, and what the context and background of that statement, and the person making it, are. There is a world of difference between "alleged," "convicted," and "self-confessed," for example.

Find me a reputable Russian source that has absolute confidence in their own source, and I will be contented.

I found it!

Evidence the Jews are taking over Ukraine!

www.texemarrs.com...