What will happen to Christianity when we finally confirm ET?

originally posted by: Develo
The reality is that only American Christian fundies do

Do you mean people like the Amish and Quakers?

Leave them alone, they're not hurting anybody imo.

I have family in PA and there's one thing I've learned about going through Amish country...

If you see a man with his arm buried up to his elbow in a horses arse --that's a Mechanic!

originally posted by: Develo
God isn't a physical being

Sure.......but I'm not sure that's a prerequisite for an ET.

It's closer to an abstract concept. That's probably why a lot of people have a hard time understanding what is meant when people talk about god.

Incredibly abstract, almost to the point of being indistinguishable from not existing...

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Incredibly abstract, almost to the point of being indistinguishable from not existing...

Does time exist? Does love exist? Does beauty exist?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

From the ashes of disaster a new beginning will arise.

Out with the old failed civilization governed by greedy governments, in with the new civilization governed by those ET's.

Basically those ET's gave us over 6000 years to figure it out, we couldn't as a species do it, we failed.
Mostly because humans can't seem to learn from their ancestors mistakes. But the bible said we were never inteneded to rule ourselves. It was only because one particular ET challenged another ET to run an experiment, "see if they can do it on their own without your help", and all the other myriads of ET's wondered the same, "yes maybe this new biological creation can rule themselves independent of us?" That experiments time is very close to ending to save the planet itself, as the question has now been answered most decisively, and the one ET can justifiably say to all the other ET's "I told you so".

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Well then that's a shame god is going to kill all sea life because humans couldn't please him in 6000 years time. I imagine the land animals might not fair too well with the Sun scorching either. It's unfortunate how much of the planet has to suffer because we disappoint Father. Oh well. What can you do, right.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Plenty of Christians throughout ATS's history have claimed Genesis to be a literal account and not allegorical in nature....

This site is American. So you will find that protestant fundamentalist Christians are over-represented here.


Why do you think it's only in the US you have thing like creationism and all? It's typically American.

When I said "the Church" I meant the majority of Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant). And an overwhelming majority of Christians aren't fundamentalists, nor do they read Genesis literally. Christian fundamentalists make less than 10% of the Christians worldwide so their views are marginal.


If you based your vision of the world on the people posting in ATS, you might find it a bit biased.

Most modern Christian have zero problem reconciling their faith with modern discoveries. That fundies do is absolutely not an indication of what "Christians" believe. A Christian follows the teachings of Jesus. Genesis is a Jewish creation myth. Jesus never said "our creation myth is literally true".

Either we are specific and say we talk about fundamentalist Christian beliefs in this thread, either we remain vague using the term Christians but then we have to take into consideration the views of the majority.

And the majority of Christians have no issues with the idea of alien life (even if not actively searching for it), nor do they believe the earth was literally created in 6 days.





The question in the thread is clearly "What will happen to Christianity when we confirm alien life".

The answer is:

Not much since most Christians have no issues with the concept, and the Vatican (50% of Christians worldwide) is even actively looking for alien life.

There is really nothing else to add to answer the OP.

originally posted by: Develo
Does time exist? Does love exist? Does beauty exist?

Time is the movement of matter and both love and beauty could be described as tangible.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy
It was only because one particular ET challenged another ET to run an experiment, "see if they can do it on their own without your help", and all the other myriads of ET's wondered the same, "yes maybe this new biological creation can rule themselves independent of us?" That experiments time is very close to ending to save the planet itself, as the question has now been answered most decisively, and the one ET can justifiably say to all the other ET's "I told you so".

Did one of them win a dollar?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Actually if you read and understand the bible much of that in Revelation is symbolic, it's not literal, this time the purge will effect humans more than any other animals, the birds in particular do very well during this event. One particular ET has them doing something interesting to actually help clean up the earth faster. If you want to read what he has them doing you can read about it in Revelation 19: 17 & 18.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Develo
Does time exist? Does love exist? Does beauty exist?

Time is the movement of matter and both love and beauty could be described as tangible.

Nope, all these things are subjective and intangible.

God is the same thing.

People who claim to have "met" god usually describe it as a personal experience of a non-dual state. So basically what they mean is that god is the equivalent of a universal consciousness.

It will be hard or impossible to prove it exists, but there is nothing shocking regarding this idea from a scientific point of view.

a reply to: Prezbo369

I actually thought of Trading Places, when I wrote that post.
Yup, in a way it was the biggest universal cosmic bet ever, the winner got sovereignty over our planet, I think we know which ET lost.
But in his case he is going to lose even more, as in his life.
He has to pay that for making humanity suffer during his proposed experiment, but he knew that going in.

As in Trading Places those guys lose everything in the end, as does this ET.

a reply to: Develo

This site is American.

This site's content is user-driven and the member-base is international.

Why do you think it's only in the US you have thing like creationism and all? It's typically American.

I truly don't see that being the case...

When I said "the Church" I meant the majority of Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant). And an overwhelming majority of Christians aren't fundamentalists, nor do they read Genesis literally. Christian fundamentalists make less than 10% of the Christians worldwide so their views are marginal.

Was that 10% towards fundamentalists in general or specifically towards belief Genesis is allegorical? Those two could very well be differing statistics.

10% of Christians is still roughly 218,000,000.

My years of experience on ATS most definitely hasn't been 10% or less. Which is again from Christians around the globe.

If you based your vision of the world on the people posting in ATS, you might find it a bit biased

Of course I don't. I base it on any and every possible way I could have interacted with a Christian and their beliefs. In person, or online.

Most modern Christian have zero problem reconciling their faith with modern discoveries.

I agree. Although I would disagree the reconciliation is of sound mind.

Jesus never said "our creation myth is literally true".

Jesus made mention of Jonah living inside the Whale for three days as literally true. So I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus endorsed the literalness 'Creationism'.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Actually if you read and understand the bible much of that in Revelation is symbolic, it's not literal, this time the purge will effect humans more than any other animals, the birds in particular do very well during this event.

Well it said all sea life dies and the Sun sets people aflame [obviously animals too]. So this purge is most definitely affecting animals just as much...

So wait the descriptions towards the birds is literal but the ones I posted concerning sea life and the scorching sun is allegorical? Why is that? On that note can you inform me. I mean break down Revelations and tell me which parts I should take literally and which parts I should not. Sounds like you have that answer.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I don't know why but I have the feeling you are trying to be right at all cost. If you seriously believe most Christians worldwide are in any way similar to the fundies posting on ATS, I feel sorry for you and encourage you to travel more.


If you honestly want to discuss the topic in the OP, I'll paste my answer again:

The question in the thread is clearly "What will happen to Christianity when we confirm alien life".

The answer is:

Not much since most Christians have no issues with the concept, and the Vatican (representing the hierarchy of 50% of Christians worldwide) is even actively looking for alien life.

Most modern Christians have zero problem reconciling their faith with modern discoveries. That fundies do is absolutely not an indication of what "Christians" believe. A Christian follows the teachings of Jesus. Genesis is the Jewish creation myth. Jesus never said "our creation myth is literally true".

Either we are specific and say we talk about fundamentalist Christian beliefs in this thread, either we remain vague using the term Christians but then we have to take into consideration the views of the majority.

And the majority of Christians have no issues with the idea of alien life (even if not actively searching for it), nor do they believe the earth was literally created in 6 days.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
My years of experience on ATS most definitely hasn't been 10% or less. Which is again from Christians around the globe.

Either you are trying to be a sophist, either you don't understand how statistics work.

If you seriously claim ATS is a representative sample of the whole world, I have the regret to inform you you are wrong.

originally posted by: Develo
Nope, all these things are subjective and intangible.

Well I would disagree.

God is the same thing.

I would agree that gods definitely are subjective, in fact I'd argue that every single person that hold such a belief, no matter the religion or denomination, believes in their own personal subjective self-cultivated god.

People who claim to have "met" god usually describe it as a personal experience of a non-dual state. So basically what they mean is that god is the equivalent of a universal consciousness.

I'm not sure you could substantiate such a claim, the vague scriptures these religions are based on lead to a plethora of interpretations.

It will be hard or impossible to prove it exists, but there is nothing shocking regarding this idea from a scientific point of view.

An abstract concept will never get past the hypothesis stage without some form of evidence, and that's not forthcoming.

As I said, there's little to no difference between such a concept and something that doesn't exist.

a reply to: Develo

If you seriously claim ATS is a representative sample of the whole world, I have the regret to inform you you are wrong.

Of course it's a sample of the Christians in the World. I am merely saying that on ATS specifically that random sampling of international people from differing denominations was much higher than 10%. I didn't claim that would extend elsewhere. However it has also been my experience in other forums, FB groups, Youtube, etc etc.

I never said the Christians here represented all of Christendom. You're the one that's making allusions to Catholicism being the dominate voice when in fact it's only half. You're the one that suggested, quite inaccurately, that ATS is an 'American site'; and did so hoping to support your view this site's Christian base is primarily fundamentalists as to not conflict with your assertion most Christians view Genesis allegorically.

I don't know why but I have the feeling you are trying to be right at all cost.

Show me, don't tell me. I showed you where you were wrong.

The answer is:

Not much since most Christians have no issues with the concept, and the Vatican (50% of Christians worldwide) is even actively looking for alien life.

What are you basing that 'most' on?? If it's indeed that 50% then in your words "Either you are trying to be a sophist, or you don't understand how statistics work."

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I mean break down Revelations and tell me which parts I should take literally and which parts I should not. Sounds like you have that answer.

That is the challenge of the book of Revelation, what is literal and what is symbolic.
I will give you one that I think you might understand more easily.
Revelation 20:14 & 15

Death and hell were thrown into the fiery lake. (The fiery lake is the second death.) 15Those whose names were not found in the Book of Life were thrown into the fiery lake.

So for centuries people thought "Hell" was a literal place people went into if they were bad, and were still conscious, a literal place. But how does "Hell" get thrown into the lake of fire which is also Hell to Christian dogma. Simple it's not literal but all symbolic. Hell=Common Grave for all humans good and bad, and Lake of Fire=NO longer exists permanently. Really how can "death" and "hell" themselves experience a "second death" ?
They were never alive. And yet people still will die, this is talking about Adamic death, the death that allows people to come back is now gone.
So in the future Hell no longer exists because nobody who dies can go there anymore, as that was a place all humans went to when they died regardless of belief structure and life pattern. Hell is an English word mistranslated from Sheol and Hades. At that point anybody who dies after "Hell" is symbolically thrown into the "lake of Fire" goes directly to the lake of fire, as in they just don't exist anymore. But this is happens way in the future, as this "Hell" is thrown into the lake of fire after a thousand year rule.

And that is just one point from Revelation, there are dozens more.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Of course it's a sample of the Christians in the World.

I said representative.

This site is anything but representative. It's obvious that among the posters here the US are over-represented VS their real proportion on earth. So, likewise, ATS is a good sample to describe what Americans believe. But certainly not to extrapolate to the whole world.

It's really not that hard to understand.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
What are you basing that 'most' on?? If it's indeed that 50% then in your words "Either you are trying to be a sophist, or you don't understand how statistics work."

Christian fundamentalism (those who read Genesis and the whole Bible literally) exist almost exclusively among Protestant, and in the US. It's a modern stance, no older than the 19th century.

Fundamentalism as a movement arose in the United States, starting among conservative Presbyterian theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the late 19th century. It soon spread to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations around 1910 to 1920. The movement's purpose was to reaffirm key theological tenets and defend them against the challenges of liberal theology and higher criticism.

The US represent 300 millions people. Let's add Australia, South Africa and UK in the mix to extend our sample to most anglo-saxons worldwide, just to be generous. 300M + 23M + 52M + 64M = 439 millions people.

Among then, lets consider 50% are protestants, which is a VERY generous figure, again. Then let say, 100% of these protestants are fundamentalists, which is obviously completely untrue.

That leaves US with potentially 220 millions Christian fundamentalists worldwide, which is of course hugely exaggerated given my hypothesis, but anyway.


There are 2.2 billions Christians worldwide.


So at the very most, with all the very generous estimate I used, Christian fundies cannot represent more than 10% of the Christians worldwide, but the figure is probably much less and below 5 %, because of course not all protestants are fundamentalists.


I hope this clears out things for you.

Now despite all this, if you still want to claim:

- this site represents well the opinion of Christians in general
- many Christians read the Bible literally like fundies

it's your choice but I won't argue with you anymore because your last posts have lacked critical judgement and mathematical rigor, so not much can come out of it.



The fact that Christian fundies are visible to you online can be very easily explained:
- they are mostly Anglo-Saxon, and most interantional forums/boards are frequented in majority by anglo saxons
- they are the most motivated in their preaching, it's normal since they are the most passionate about their faith. In comparison most Christian worldwide will be considered "lukewarm", calling themselves Christians more because it's their culture and values than because they go to Church every sunday.
- they consider proselytism is one of their mission

That you considered they were representative of Christians in general is sad though.

originally posted by: ParasuvO


You cannot be Christian, and think that the book you follow has led to anything valid.

How can you not see just how incredibly lost and sad that really is.

CHRISTIANITY, is even WORSE than the Bible, it does not even follow the meanderings within very closely at all!!

Not sure why you would be CHRISTIAN and think for yourself, are you one of the NEW NEW NEW ones who are constantly making it up as they go and actually convincing themselves the core tenets you do not even see can be questioned ??

Being CHRISTIAN, means you are NOT openminded.

You cannot be something that does not even really exist lol!

That's what YOU say. I don't consider myself NEW NEW or anything funny. I consider myself Christian. Period, end of discussion. You should be allowed to have a brain and be Christian. Man, himself, may not like it, but I'm sure Jesus and God will be ok with it. If not, I will be sure to ask when I get there.

a reply to: Akragon

I don't see anything in the discovery of alien life that is antithetical to Christianity. There's an odd fear by some that the discovery of alien life would somehow prove evolution, but given how we know that life evolving on Earth is incredibly unlikely, it seems to me that (by and large) the discovery of life on another planet ought to strengthen belief in a Creator, not undermine it.

Intelligent alien life would be trickier, but I don't see how that would be an insurmountable hurdle for Christian belief. Certainly nothing in the Bible contradicts it explicitly.

To be clear, there is no real reason to believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe. That would be really cool, but I haven't seen any reason to think it exists. As far as ET life and Christianity goes, I'm sure that would be a very interesting and, at least for me, fun time for the church, but I see no reason for it to undermine Christian faith.