Can someone show me evidence of man being created from dirt?

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

"Creation of life through electricity" (2009) Dini J.
"Andrew Crosse: early nineteenth-century amateur of electrical science" (1993) Popock RF
"Andrew Crosse: Electrical Pioneer" (1934) Alexander J.

STILL no verifiable sources.

It was recreated recently^^, I just don't have access to the full articles to see their results (Although the title "creation of life through electricity" does seem to imply a successful result). For now, the drum-roll continues.

Oh, now we're getting to the issue. "I just googled 'electricity' and 'life' and assumed this paper meant what I wanted it to". So you haven't even verified your own sources?

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

"Creation of life through electricity" (2009) Dini J.
"Andrew Crosse: early nineteenth-century amateur of electrical science" (1993) Popock RF
"Andrew Crosse: Electrical Pioneer" (1934) Alexander J.

STILL no verifiable sources.

It was recreated recently^^, I just don't have access to the full articles to see their results (Although the title "creation of life through electricity" does seem to imply a successful result). For now, the drum-roll continues.

Oh, now we're getting to the issue. "I just googled 'electricity' and 'life' and assumed this paper meant what I wanted it to". So you haven't even verified your own sources?

I wasn't using them as a source, simply stating that it has been replicated this century. The only one I had access to was from the 19th century, which was from a verifiable source (London Electrical Society). No reason to be hostile, greedy publishers want you to pay 50$ to see 5 pages of paper, I'm not feeding that tomfoolery.

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

"Creation of life through electricity" (2009) Dini J.
"Andrew Crosse: early nineteenth-century amateur of electrical science" (1993) Popock RF
"Andrew Crosse: Electrical Pioneer" (1934) Alexander J.

It was recreated recently^^, I just don't have access to the full articles to see their results (Although the title "creation of life through electricity" does seem to imply a successful result). For now, the drum-roll continues.

I have access to every journal. There's nothing in the literature about a recent repeat experiment that confirmed the original outcome.

The article by Popock is about Crosse and young electrical engineers. Doesn't have anything to do with the experiment.
"Andrew Crosse, the Squire of Broomfield in Somerset, was born in 1784 and died in 1855. His time was spent mainly in the ordinary duties of his estate, but his chief interest was electrical study and experimentation. He achieved national notoriety for a short time, about 1836, when it was asserted that he created living insects during one of this experiments. The author investigates Crosse's scientific career as an example of the amateur experimenters of the period. Electrical study was then in transition from a dilettante hobby to the life-work of professionals."

The article by J. Dini isn't in any of the literature. So I assume it was an article in a local or some non-scientific publication.

If the experiment was repeated, then it would come up in my search engine. There's nothing there.

a reply to: Phantom423

Dini, J. from The Journal "Plating and Surface Finishing

"Andrew Crosse, a scientist, believed that crystalline mineral deposits could be generated by electric discharges. He set up an experiment where he passed a current from a voltaic cell through a solution of potassium silicate and hydrochloric acid that was set dripping over a porous stone of red iron oxide. The stone was kept electrified by platinum wires coupled to a small voltaic battery. Crosse observed a few small whitish specks clustered around the middle of the electrified stone on the fourteenth day. The specks had doubled in size and had struck out six or eight fine filaments around each speck after four days. He observed on 26th day that the objects had assumed the form of perfect insects, standing erect on the bristles which they were growing, and on the 28th day, the objects were moving their legs. Several experimentalists attempted to duplicate Crosse's work such as Stanley Miller- Harold Urey experiment recreated the chemical conditions of the primitive Earth in the laboratory using water, methane, ammonia, hydrogen and electricity"
(I don't have access to the full text, only the abstract)

Do you have access to this one by any chance?
"Bugs and blasphemy: Andrew Crosse and the Acarus electricus" in the Journal 'Medical Instrumentation'? by Roth, N. (1979)

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

Dini, J. from The Journal "Plating and Surface Finishing

"Andrew Crosse, a scientist, believed that crystalline mineral deposits could be generated by electric discharges. He set up an experiment where he passed a current from a voltaic cell through a solution of potassium silicate and hydrochloric acid that was set dripping over a porous stone of red iron oxide. The stone was kept electrified by platinum wires coupled to a small voltaic battery. Crosse observed a few small whitish specks clustered around the middle of the electrified stone on the fourteenth day. The specks had doubled in size and had struck out six or eight fine filaments around each speck after four days. He observed on 26th day that the objects had assumed the form of perfect insects, standing erect on the bristles which they were growing, and on the 28th day, the objects were moving their legs. Several experimentalists attempted to duplicate Crosse's work such as Stanley Miller- Harold Urey experiment recreated the chemical conditions of the primitive Earth in the laboratory using water, methane, ammonia, hydrogen and electricity"
(I don't have access to the full text, only the abstract)

Do you have access to this one by any chance?
"Bugs and blasphemy: Andrew Crosse and the Acarus electricus" in the Journal 'Medical Instrumentation'? by Roth, N. (1979)

That's not a scientific journal article. It's just an article stating the author's research. I'm referring to research articles that include methods, experimentation and results.

a reply to: cooperton

Here's an article that recently appeared in Scientific American. The topic is similar, but very far away from Crosse's experiment.

New Steps Shown toward Creation of Life by Electric Charge
Simulating a famous experiment to produce life's building blocks by jolting molecules with electricity, scientists may have found a strange new intermediate state

September 18, 2014 |By Patrick Walter and ChemistryWorld



Researchers propose that short-range, localized electric fields on the surface of minerals may have played a part in directing the chemistry that led to the molecules of life.
Credit: GunnerVV via flickr
Quantum mechanical simulations of the famous Miller experiment, in which simple molecules are exposed to an electrical discharge to produce amino acids, as may have happened on the early Earth as a precursor to life, suggest that a previously unseen intermediate, formamide, may play a key role in the chemical pathways.
The researchers, A Marco Saitta of UPMC in Paris, France, and Franz Saija of the Institute for Chemical and Physical Processes in Messina, Italy, also suggest that localized electrical fields on the surface of minerals may have had a bigger part in prebiotic chemistry than has been appreciated.
Saitta and Saija used newly developed quantum mechanical computations that can simulate the behaviour of atoms and electrons in a strong electric field to ‘observe’ the chain of events during the reactions. ‘We are doing this on a picosecond timescale, looking at the very early steps of Miller-like reactions,’ says Saitta.
The simulations identified formic acid and formamide as early, short-lived intermediates in the reaction, something that has not been seen before. Saitta suggests that a potentially important aspect of electricity as a source of energy is its ‘directionality’ – that it can align atomic and molecular species within the electric field and promote chemical reactions in a way that is different from other sources of energy such as simple heating. The researchers propose that short-range, localized electric fields on the surface of minerals may have played a part in directing the chemistry that led to the molecules of life. ‘My feeling is that an electric field gives something else besides energy,’ says Saitta.
Other researchers in prebiotic chemistry are not entirely convinced by the findings. Jeffrey Bada of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in the US, a pioneer in the field, says: ‘This paper might be an advance in water-based ab initio molecular dynamic calculations, but this does not in my opinion advance the field of prebiotic chemistry in a major way. At best the synthesis pathway proposed in this paper would be only a minor contributor to the overall amino acid yield.’
Nir Goldman, of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the US, says that the work does provide ‘new insights into the idea that electrical discharges, for example lightning, could have played a role in the formation of prebiotic molecules on early Earth’. Goldman adds, however: ‘One criticism is that the authors chose to use a somewhat reduced or hydrogen-rich mixture in their study, whereas the atmosphere on early Earth is thought to have been carbon dioxide rich, which could entail very different chemistry in the presence of an electric field. Similar studies on a more realistic prebiotic mixture could yield interesting predictions for future experiments.’
This article is reproduced with permission from Chemistry World. The article was first published on September 16, 2014.

a reply to: Phantom423

Interesting. In terms of electrical directionality, I heard that organisms in the northern hemisphere have the opposite chirality as southern hemisphere organisms, but I do not know exactly to what extent, I only read it in passing in the book "Body Electric".

In terms of this acarus electricus, let me know if you find a contemporary recreation, regardless of the result.

a reply to: cooperton

I never read that book. I know that life on earth is strictly left-handed, even though any random solution of amino acids will have a distribution of about 50/50. This is also true of amino acids found in meteorites from outer space - the amino acids found in space have a distribution of about 50/50. It's really a mystery why our life form only recognizes left-handed molecules. Humans cannot even metabolize right-handed molecules. Tocopherol (vitamin E) is an example. It's difficult to even synthesize it in the lab.

I think you might have misinterpreted what you read in the book. If animals were enantiomerically distributed between north and south we would have to eat different foods, virtually everything in our environment would have to change. It would also mean that an animal from the north would be able to superimpose a paw on the same animal in the south i.e. it would not be a mirror image (think of your hands - they are enantiomeric and not superimposable).

Read the chapter again - it must be something else they're referring to.

If I find anything on the Crosse experiment, I will post it here. But as I said, a literature search turned up nothing except general articles.

originally posted by: cooperton

Ok...

simply stating that it has been replicated this century.

These two statements are contradictory.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You made a good point here.

Although the "dirt" thing is from Ash Wesnesday in Christianity , to remind us that our body is mortal and will go back to dust, it does have another important meaning.

The good point that you made is that we are made of the material from our planet. Our blood and fluid (water), bones (calcium and other earth minerals), lungs and breathing system (air), body temperature (fire).

If our planet was of a gaseous nature , we would probably be transparent and formless; be able to have sex with dozens of people at the same time by just travelling "through" their subtle bodies; no need to eat or go to the toilet. Sorry just food for thought.

Seriously, if scientists could open their minds( unfortunately, they cannot because locked into small boxes), we would be all be taking our wives and kids around the galaxy in the weekend without the need to build space vehicles.

To answer the OP, it is symbolic and found in all religions. The proof is all around us.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You made a good point here.

Although the "dirt" thing is from Ash Wesnesday in Christianity , to remind us that our body is mortal and will go back to dust, it does have another important meaning.

The good point that you made is that we are made of the material from our planet. Our blood and fluid (water), bones (calcium and other earth minerals), lungs and breathing system (air), body temperature (fire).

If our planet was of a gaseous nature , we would probably be transparent and formless; be able to have sex with dozens of people at the same time by just travelling "through" their subtle bodies; no need to eat or go to the toilet. Sorry just food for thought.

Seriously, if scientists could open their minds( unfortunately, they cannot because locked into small boxes), we would be all be taking our wives and kids around the galaxy in the weekend without the need to build space vehicles.

To answer the OP, it is symbolic and found in all religions. The proof is all around us.

So what's stopping you from being a scientist?? You seem to have an opinion that scientists know nothing and that your opinion should rule. Well, why not do a role reversal. You be the scientist and let us relax for a change. I would love to fly around the galaxy in a space vehicle. So when are you starting work? I'll sign on as an advisor.

originally posted by: Phantom423


So what's stopping you from being a scientist?? You seem to have an opinion that scientists know nothing and that your opinion should rule. Well, why not do a role reversal. You be the scientist and let us relax for a change. I would love to fly around the galaxy in a space vehicle. So when are you starting work? I'll sign on as an advisor.

I would not want to be a scientist as it has a pre-requisite of closing offf the right side of the brain entirely.

If you read my post, I am suggesting no space craft and instead travelling by other means.

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: Phantom423


So what's stopping you from being a scientist?? You seem to have an opinion that scientists know nothing and that your opinion should rule. Well, why not do a role reversal. You be the scientist and let us relax for a change. I would love to fly around the galaxy in a space vehicle. So when are you starting work? I'll sign on as an advisor.

I would not want to be a scientist as it has a pre-requisite of closing offf the right side of the brain entirely.

If you read my post, I am suggesting no space craft and instead travelling by other means.

I'll suggest that we change the requirements for admission to the graduate program to include "closing off the right side of your brain". I'm sure that will go over big time.

web.mit.edu...

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: Phantom423


So what's stopping you from being a scientist?? You seem to have an opinion that scientists know nothing and that your opinion should rule. Well, why not do a role reversal. You be the scientist and let us relax for a change. I would love to fly around the galaxy in a space vehicle. So when are you starting work? I'll sign on as an advisor.

I would not want to be a scientist as it has a pre-requisite of closing offf the right side of the brain entirely.

If you read my post, I am suggesting no space craft and instead travelling by other means.

I'll suggest that we change the requirements for admission to the graduate program to include "closing off the right side of your brain". I'm sure that will go over big time.

web.mit.edu...

OMG MIT?!

Can someone show me evidence of man being created from dirt?

Question: what do the bodies of men turn into after they die?

Question: What happens to the body upon cremation?

Case closed.

beyond that... You and also believers need to be real careful when examining the bible as if were originally in English. The word in the original MSS still in the British Museum of Antiquities had many meanings. It does not just mean dirt or clay and even if it did it can have figurative or metaphorical meanings.

By extension it can mean material (any material living or dead.) also the Hebrew word used for the English word "rib" in Genesis actually means curve or helix. That kind of opens a new can of worms, doesn't it?

a reply to: stormbringer1701

Question: what do the bodies of men turn into after they die?

60 to 90 percent back into water up to 18% carbon 3% nitrogen about 1.5% calcium about 1.2% to 1.5% of your body consists of phosphorus 0.2% to 0.35% potassium 0.20% to 0.25% sulfer 0.10% to 0.15% sodium and about 0.05% magneseum. There are trace elements like aluminum as well the keyword is trace.

Question: What happens to the body upon cremation?

You get bone fragments and ash Phosphate 47.5% Calcium 25.3% Sulfate (Sulphate) 11.00% Potassium 3.69% Sodium 1.12% Chloride 1.00% Silica 0.9% Aluminum Oxide 0.72% Magnesium 0.418% Iron Oxide 0.118% Zinc 0.0342% Titanium Oxide 0.0260% Barium 0.0066% Antimony 0.0035% Chromium 0.0018% Copper 0.0017% Manganese 0.0013% Lead 0.0008% Tin 0.0005% Vanadium 0.0002% Beryllium

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The narrative showing how Adam was designed from ochre clay: It's how we design motor cars today:

Clay => Industrial plasticine => en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Grimpachi

that kind of sounds like dirt to me. LOL...just to play advocate

a reply to: Grimpachi

But added some rainwater (or other types of distilled water) with some stirring, and later added some fats and some boiling and labour: Soap! And if you quit the process early— lye, and even before that, quite a few interesting fertilisers that would react with the soil to boost cellular growth.

It reminds me how the Hebrew name for Genesis sounds exactly like «Only Dirt» or «Just Dirt» in some Norwegian dialects, like me own.

Mods: please delete this one, Made it by accident