Spirituality is the only way out of "the Matrix"

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I said it before, suffering aside, how do you interact with this reality? Is it not a fleshy part of you that presses keys?

originally posted by: johndeere2020
a reply to: Profusion

The way out is knowledge, we are in a prison where the chains and bars are made of ignorance.

Knowledge is like the words that appear on the page.
The importance of the page is overlooked.
The illusory chains are caused by ignoring what you really are.

Be all-knowing, make your own hypothesis, conclusions about life. Have independent thoughts.

Thoughts arise and are being known without it being realized - what you are is 'just knowing' - you are the witness but not the controller of what is appearing to be known.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I said it before, suffering aside, how do you interact with this reality? Is it not a fleshy part of you that presses keys?

The movie is moving - there appears to be fingers pressing keys but I AM NOT DOING IT!!!!!
What is happening is just happening but you seem to think that I am doing it - you think you are doing it - there is no one doing anything - it just seams that way.

Life is simply happening. These words are just happening, typing is happening.

There is only what is happening and that gets split into 'what's happening' and a 'me that is doing it or a 'me' that it is happening to. That separate me is an illusion. There is just what is happening and typing happens, reading happens but no one is doing it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
The movie is moving - there appears to be fingers pressing keys but I AM NOT DOING IT!!!!!

Ok, well it isn't me doing it either. I'll own all of mine, guess you have a patsy.

a reply to: daskakik
The individual thinks he is doing life and it can be a heavy burden.
It may be realized that all is DONE on earth as it is in heaven.
When this is realized then life is light.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
That is all good but don't use your fleshy parts, ever?

I have to think that you, do even if it's just to reply to me.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Itisnowagain
That is all good but don't use your fleshy parts, ever?

You seem to be missing the point somewhat.
Never mind.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
You seem to be missing the point somewhat.

Honestly your point is the same thing you go on about in most of your posts. In that video you posted, Peter Brown called it the primary fact. Fine I can roll with that but now I'm asking about other facts and you, as you usually do, fall right back into the looped answers.

You mentioned reincarnation. Someone asked about that in the video and Brown said before one can discuss reincarnation one must understand what incarnation is. He never really gives an answer. "If you are asleep and dream that you are in New York talking to people..."

That assumes that the sleeping/dreaming you is more real than the you in the dream but he then goes on to ask how one can be sure that the waking you is any more real than the dreamed you. Great point, but not really an answer to what incarnation is.

a reply to: daskakik
The character Peter Brown invites you to notice that you are the dreamer - that is the prime fact. The dream is not separate from what you are but what you really are never actually appears 'in'' the dream - the dream appears in/on you. So you are the entire dream - not just an small aspect in the dream, not just contained in what appears to be a body.
Shakespeare said 'We are such stuff that dreams are made of'.
There is no flesh - it is a dream.
The dreamer and dream are one - there is just dreaming.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
So you are the entire dream - not just an small aspect in the dream, not just contained in what appears to be a body.

I understand the idea but he and you never really got around to what incarnation is.

Also, you might be wrong. Then what?

a reply to: daskakik
There is no incarnation really.
There is just dreaming.

If you believe you are in a body, you will be hoping to be alive after the body dies but when you realize yourself as the entire dreaming (the dreamer and the dream) who can die?

There is no flesh - it is a dream.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
If you believe you are in a body, you will be hoping to be alive after the body dies but when you realize yourself as the entire dreaming (the dreamer and the dream) who can die?

That whole thing sets up a bit of a problem. Am I just a figment of your imagination in your dream or are you just a figment of mine in my dream.

There is incarnation or else you could not interact in this world. It isn't something you can dismiss with Brown's thought experiment.

originally posted by: daskakik
There is incarnation or else you could not interact in this world.

Can anything appear outside of the dream that you are dreaming? Peter Brown and other characters appearing in the dream are just pointing you to see that there is nothing separate from what you are - you are the dreamer dreaming the dream.
You do not appear IN the dream - there is just dreaming.
There is no one to reincarnate - life is the dream and there is nothing else.

It isn't something you can dismiss with Brown's thought experiment.

Of course not. But if one entertains what Peter Brown or Roger Castillo says, one might start to view life from a different perspective to what is considered normal, then one might find that things are not quite what they seemed.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Can anything appear outside of the dream that you are dreaming? Peter Brown and other characters appearing in the dream are just pointing you to see that there is nothing separate from what you are - you are the dreamer dreaming the dream.
You do not appear IN the dream - there is just dreaming.
There is no one to reincarnate - life is the dream and there is nothing else.

I just pointed out where the Brown's thought excersise breaks down. Instead of just repeating it, because I understand it, why not make a logical argument why the thought experiment is sound?

I asked a simple question, am I dreaming you or are you dreaming me? Can you answer this or will you admit that it is a logical flaw in Brown's example?

Of course not. But if one entertains what Peter Brown or Roger Castillo says, one might start to view life from a different perspective to what is considered normal, then one might find that things are not quite what they seemed.

I've had OBEs so my world view is not "normal" but this has aslo given me an idea of what incarnation means.

You're argument always boils down to "there is nothing". Even if the primary fact is that there is no thing, and even that doesn't make sense because someone went to the trouble of setting up this reality, that has no bearing on the fact that when one steps into this holographic movie (the Matrix) you incarnate.

Digging on Brown or Castillo and feeling that you get the primary fact doesn't mean that you can stop attending the physical.

a reply to: daskakik
The physical is never not where you are.
But instead of seeing hearing and tasting what there is - one can imagine something else - something other than what there actually is.
THIS is what there is and This constantly appears different.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Right back into the stock answers. Care to discuss the points I brought up, maybe answer the questions?

a reply to: daskakik
There is NO ONE dreaming.
This is dreaming.
It is a living dream.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: daskakik
There is NO ONE dreaming.
This is dreaming.
It is a living dream.

That isn't what Brown said.

I thought you said it was a holographic movie? I guess we can ask, what is dreaming? I'm pretty sure I will get no answer just like I have yet to see you explain what incarnation is.

To further use the movie analogy, I'm asking you about the plot of a movie on a DVD and you continue to say that the DVD only contains pits and lands. While that is true, it isn't what I'm asking about.

a reply to: daskakik
What is a dream if it isn't a holographic movie?