SURPRISE: Iran Rejects Obama’s 10-Year Nuke Deal

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Can someone tell me the threat that Iran faces to where they need nukes?

They don't at all, so begs the question why would they want them? (to aggressively use them as a threat against others).

I think that is a good point. Iran has no enemies other than who they say are their enemies. Don't take me the wrong way here, Iran would be a garden spot for tourism, the young want what all young want, a good happy life, the country doesn't lack in resources to be great, so why do they do as they do?

My personal opinion is they have leadership that one would say follow extremest views. To keep their views alive (and more importantly their power) they need to have a boogeyman, devil, evil to counter. It would be hard to keep control as they do without a bad guy to use as their reason to keep their extremest views. The young do not want this, they want an open nation, they want to travel and have others travel to them, they want success, but it will not happen as long as the 12 imams are dictating what is right or wrong.

There is zero reason to be as they are....zero, other than to create a Middle East totally controlled by Shia Islam. I really do not think the young progressive hold the same views, but there isn't much they can do unless they have an internal revolution, and I think that will happen before we see a Israel/Iran war.

I don't think there's a single topic which gives me a headache more quickly than the topic of this thread. It was being debated before I joined ATS and it'll be debated after I leave. I honestly don't know why everyone has to get their panties in such a twist over Iran's nuclear program. They have a right to nuclear energy for christ sakes. UN inspections never seem to find any evidence of a nuclear weapons program and yet critics of Iran are always spewing out fear mongering nonsense with no basis in reality.

Iran would have to be mentally retarded in the first place to use a nuclear weapon on another nation because they know they'd have 10x as many nukes come right back at them. Anyone paying attention can see that all of this is really just a power struggle between different nations. The U.S. and Israel will do anything to keep Iran from gaining any type of economic advantage, which results in a constant effort to slow down their nuclear activities, even if those activities have nothing to do with nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: TDawg61

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Can someone tell me the threat that Iran faces to where they need nukes?

Good question.Im sure some socialist,lets light up the crematoria again Ats member will be along about"the evil zionist plan"to answer that.

What does Israel have to gain? After the 1967 war they had all of Egypt's northern oil fields, a large area of Jordan, anything they wanted in Syria, but they gave it all back...hmmm and kept their little chunk of land with zero oil...

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder


Iran would have to be mentally retarded in the first place to use a nuclear weapon on another nation because they know they'd have 10x as many nukes come right back at them.

Many past governments have had mentally retarded leaders.

Iran would not be the first, nor would it be the last.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder


Iran would have to be mentally retarded in the first place to use a nuclear weapon on another nation because they know they'd have 10x as many nukes come right back at them.

Many past governments have had mentally retarded leaders.

Iran would not be the first, nor would it be the last.

Yes but if you're going to make that claim you need some sort of solid proof that they are attempting to build a nuclear weapon. So far all I see is fear mongering which has been going on for DECADES now. Iran always just happens to be around the corner from creating a nuclear weapon and there's always some plot by Israel and the U.S. to slow down their nuclear refinement project, but there's never any proof that Iran poses a real threat.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: TDawg61

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Can someone tell me the threat that Iran faces to where they need nukes?

Good question.Im sure some socialist,lets light up the crematoria again Ats member will be along about"the evil zionist plan"to answer that.

What does Israel have to gain? After the 1967 war they had all of Egypt's northern oil fields, a large area of Jordan, anything they wanted in Syria, but they gave it all back...hmmm and kept their little chunk of land with zero oil...

Actually I read somewhere the country of Israel was about the size of New Jersey.Not a very big state much less country.It would have been interesting to have seen the Israel graphic fit over NJ for comparison

a reply to: TDawg61

originally posted by: TDawg61
To begin.I mentioned the embassy seizure disputing your peaceful nation of iran dribble.

If you want to be truthful, you actually brought it up long before I entered the thread.

go back and look at page 1? while others were frothing at their rabid mouths over how evil Iran is, you jumped in with that gem

'' peaceful nation, took hostages for 18months '' nonsense.

Which is where i asked you what your experience was like under the Shah, because if you had some you would know that the Shah did horrible things to the Iranian people, was driven out of Iran and the USA gave him shelter. Which kicked off the anger that led to the hostages being taken.

Don't bait me with that anti-us thread derailing nonsense. I asked you a straight up question, you couldn't face it.

the truth of the matter is, your no different to the republican maniacs who invited the Israeli PM to speak at congress. you don't care about facts, deaths, suffering.. all you see is a big pot of gold with Iran standing in the way.

Iran have had biological and chemical weapons for decades. Their ally NKorea has nuclear weapons. If Iran was psychotic they would have used these munitions and had a go at Israel, but they haven't. Why? because that's not what they intend on doing. They want a nuclear weapon so Israel and the USA wont be able to dictate how the middle east is run.

...dude!

First of all, it’s apparent that facts serve no purpose in this thread. We don’t want no stinking facts clouding our issues. In the world of 2015 facts are kinda like a hot, lead enema to acceptable, vigorous political discourse. So, screw it. I’m not going to argue Obama policy issues around here or try to change anyone’s mind. Just let the Haters keep on hatin’, and the Losers keep on losin’...

The Boehner/Netenyahu Iranian Hatefest went as scheduled. This ugly, misguided effort to use scare tactics to play on the colossal ignorance raging here in America may have worked for the GOP under George Dubya, but we’re much more ignorant now, and we’ll have none of it. I think ol’ Benny Boy’s welfare package from America merits further review. Perhaps a slight reduction in funds would be appropriate for that back-stabber. And while they’re at it, a salary review for John “Benedict Arnold” Boehner would also be in order. Personally, I think Boehner should be escorted from Capitol Hill in shackles. But, there I go dreaming again...

The blatant hypocrisy being peddled tics me off as much as anything else. For instance,

1 - If Iran is a terror-supporting state for dictating some of Syria’s policies, then why not drag Russia down into
the toilet with them? I didn’t hear Netanyahu blast Russia for being a terror-supporting state.

2 - Someone needs to tell Netanyahu to stop worrying about Iran developing an “Islamic bomb”. Pakistan already beat ‘em to it.
Why isn’t Netanyahu whining about Pakistan? Must have missed it.

3 - Netanyahu wants Iran’s nuclear capability removed, and yet Israel still hasn’t joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
That, alone, negates Netanyahu’s argument and credit with me.

4 - Netanyahu condemns Iran for not being “democratic” enough and for it’s record on human rights violations. If it really
concerns him that much, then why isn’t he harping on Saudi Arabia, as well? In Saudi Arabia they chop off the
hands and feet of thieves, and its laws permit the execution of homosexuals. None the less, it’s considered "pro-Western.”.
At least in Iran women can drive and participate in elections held for parliament and the presidency.

I could go on and on, but I’ll spare us all (me included). Obviously I have no use for Netanyahu, Boehner, et al. They whine a lot, tell lie after lie, and don’t really give a hoot about the destruction left in their wake. They are self-serving, narcissistic, hateful, ruthless sociopaths IMO. They’ll be delighted if the circus they just braodcast to the world ends up sabotaging the talks in Tehran. It’s a shame they can’t be prosecuted for it. While these jokers celebrate their assault on diplomacy and their success in planting the seeds of paranoia and doubt, I’d bet they don’t even acknowledge the fact that they’ve offered no solutions, but instead have made the world just a little more dangerous than it was the day before.

IMO Boehner is a petty old fool with a bad tan. And Netanyahu would be lost without someone to persecute him and his underlings. Somehow I can easily picture Netanyahu and his evil Dominatrix celebrating after such a speech.

And now for a moment of unchallenged patriotism and heart-felt appreciation:
“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the sovereign State of Israel, and to the parliamentary democracy for which it
stands...”

originally posted by: TDawg61
Actually I read somewhere the country of Israel was about the size of New Jersey.Not a very big state much less country.It would have been interesting to have seen the Israel graphic fit over NJ for comparison

a reply to: Xtrozero
So,
Massachusetts would be a better comparison.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder


Iran would have to be mentally retarded in the first place to use a nuclear weapon on another nation because they know they'd have 10x as many nukes come right back at them.

Many past governments have had mentally retarded leaders.

Iran would not be the first, nor would it be the last.

The PAST? Iran's Ahmadinejab is right up there with North Korea's Kim Jong Un and Russia's Alexander Putin. The three most insane regimes in the world are bald headed step brothers. The most dangerous "The Three Stooges" ever not to be financed as a SURE HIT potential 'dark' television comedy series by MGM Studios; ("includes all spectrums of subjugation of the human spirit" exhibiting the best of Mans capacity to inflict beastly inhumane acts upon the Mankind within its reaches).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Don't forget Kim Jong (mentally) IL

a reply to: xuenchen

He's dead. Right?

originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: vethumanbeingoriginally posted by: Xtrozero

Can someone tell me the threat that Iran faces to where they need nukes?

Veteranhumanbeing: They don't at all, so begs the question why would they want them? (to aggressively use them as a threat against others).

Xtrozero: I think that is a good point. Iran has no enemies other than who they say are their enemies. Don't take me the wrong way here, Iran would be a garden spot for tourism, the young want what all young want, a good happy life, the country doesn't lack in resources to be great, so why do they do as they do? My personal opinion is they have leadership that one would say follow extremest views. To keep their views alive (and more importantly their power) they need to have a boogeyman, devil, evil to counter. It would be hard to keep control as they do without a bad guy to use as their reason to keep their extremest views. The young do not want this, they want an open nation, they want to travel and have others travel to them, they want success, but it will not happen as long as the 12 imams are dictating what is right or wrong. There is zero reason to be as they are....zero, other than to create a Middle East totally controlled by Shia Islam. I really do not think the young progressive hold the same views, but there isn't much they can do unless they have an internal revolution, and I think that will happen before we see a Israel/Iran war.

Can we wait for natural entropy in that system to occur, also called attrition, (natural deaths by the old guard). One would hope so with western ideology leaking through. What young reasonably intelligent forward thinking 20th century Muslim wants to live in an Islamic 'sharia law' Medieval world circa 700AD? It depends on as you say; how many young progressives will come forward to cause a democratric change that is centuries deep in religious dogmatic obedience and custom. I don't see it happening anytime within the next century. It would be similar to attempting to convince the Chinese to accept a God (forfeit communism) and that god will be Allah.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: xuenchen

He's dead. Right?

Pretty sure, his son took over the reign (only 22 years old).

I would like to see what kind of extortion they were expected to agree to. I bet no one could blame them for rejecting it if they could read the details. With Israel always threatening them, that is enough reason. Unless protection was promised publicly.

a reply to: xuenchen

Why shouldn't Iran reject it. Who is the US to determine who is and who is not a suitable nation to have Nuclear weapons? Do you think Israhell is.

The US has invaded 37 countries in the last 100 years and Iran has invaded none. Why Should not Iran not have nuclear power like India does or soon will. Did India ask for permission from the US or Israhell to get nuc capability??

a reply to: hillbilly4rent



What I meant by peaceful is Iran have not started a war on over 200 years.... Compared to some nations that have almost been in a perpetual state of war since there creation.


purp..

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Flatfish
Maybe we should offer them something real and tangible like forcing Israel to dismantle their undeclared nukes, including verification by international inspectors.

I wonder what ole Netanyahu would think of that.

Nuclear weapons are IMO, the most counter-productive venture ever taken on by humanity and the only real answer is to rid the earth of their existence, totally & completely.

Anything else is just the "pot calling the kettle black."

Just think of the good that could be done with those resources.

I wonder why Jordan, Egypt and Israel were not included in these closed door talks; as they are bordering nations. I wonder why the American people and their representatives (the US congress) were not informed of the details of this 'contract' before 'negotiations' began (what is being hidden here).

With respect to Jordan & Egypt, maybe Iran doesn't feel the need to negotiate with nations that don't even have the ability to stop them in the first place.

When it comes to Isreal, they're already guilty of exactly what we're attempting to prevent in Iran, which is producing and possessing undeclared nuclear weapons.

When it comes to informing Congress and the American populace of what's in the contract, well I feel certain that day will come, when there's an actual "contract" to inform them about.

As someone who has negotiated numerous contracts, I can definitively inform you of the fact that there is no contract until negotiations have concluded. That's the whole purpose of negotiations, to secure an agreed upon contract between opposing parties. Prior to agreement, all there is are proposals.

Besides, who needs to have an idiot explain the terms and conditions, (much less the repercussions) of a non-existent contract when we've got a liar like Netanyahu volunteering for the job?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I wonder why Jordan, Egypt and Israel were not included in these closed door talks; as they are bordering nations.

Seriously dude buy a map. None of those nations share a border with Iran. Also since when does America need to answer to or get permission from those piss ant nations to do anything?