It amaze me

Beautiful. . I like how you laid the reasoning out.

A loving God, who wants sacrifices, who opens by saying "Ye shall not worship any gods before me", one who would ever THINK of damnation of his Children (Those who do not follow).

I'm just going to say; religion and their scriptures what ever it may be, is a compete mind F*. The followers I admire for their commitment, loyalty, and passion of what they belive. .. if.only they were.not conformed to believe and had free will to find truth.

Indoctrination, dogma, hierarchy, wealth, killing/wars...religion isn't worth it IMO. Freedom of thought, belief, and exercise of free will is the most amazing gift a."god" gave us.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
From my point of view Jesus taught works instead of faith in an idol of himself. Paul taught Idolize Jesus as a charm/mantra and you are automatically saved.

Matthew 25:31-46 Parable of sheep and goats. Jesus clearly state that people who do not do works and say they are following him without works are cursed. So faith without works is dead and works without faith, is the people in the parable who do good without knowing they are doing what Jesus wanted.

And Jesus is the way the truth and the light. You have to believe in Him to go further. Works without faith are also dead.

In short it takes both, but faith leads to works you can't have faith without works. It just doesn't work. Not true faith because if you have faith then you also believe in what Christ taught and strive to follow his teachings which lead you to do works. You also feel a need to do what you should ... and "tah-dah!" works is a part of that urge.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
I would pray for you servant if it actually reached someone. You are arguing your interpretations of the bible as fact and the way you were taught as fact. Please stop being this kind of religious person.

You need to get to the point instead of fanciful sentences that can be summed up in lesser words.

For all people that believe in Christianity as a religion (believing in god is different) please search deuteronomy 18:22. If you still believe in the religion after reading that there is no "salvation" for you unfortunately

a reply to: rossacus

I would pray for you servant if it actually reached someone. You are arguing your interpretations of the bible as fact and the way you were taught as fact.

Is it your opinion that all interpretations are equally valid? Again I have already said that when you take the Bible as a whole, you get the picture meant to be portrayed and it coincides perfectly. I let the Bible interpret itself, but you seem to think it would be better for us all to just make up our own ideas and consider them all equally valid . Thats not how language works.

For all people that believe in Christianity as a religion (believing in god is different) please search deuteronomy 18:22. If you still believe in the religion after reading that there is no "salvation" for you unfortunately

I can quote deut from heart because its a verse Christians often share with Mormons. Please tell me what has prophecy in the Bible has been proven to be false. I have seen the list of all the failed prophecies and I am willing to be I have done a more indepth study on all of them than you. So please enlighten me.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Text Its not that they are exclusive friend. Its because you seem to have a misunderstanding on the nature of Truth. Truth is exclusive. That is what makes it stand out for everything that is false. If contradictions are made then either one side is true and the other is not, or neither are true. So the point is exclusivity comes from the nature of truth. 

In science maybe. In religion and faith I think you are as right as muslim and buddhist and most of the religions. They have their books too you know. The guy came 2000 years ago, give me a break about knowing exactely what he meant and how it would be now. Just listen to the same event on different TV chanel, often very different stories. Now rewing 2000 years ago and put metaphore and faith stuff in it: you think the message is to be taken litteraly? No way.

I'm sad you believe you destined to go to hell. But I thank you for this discussion: I understand better why faith get people to do insane stuff, in the name or their vengeful god, in fear of their version of hell. Gee this stuff should be Rated 18 at least!

Jeff

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

In science maybe. In religion and faith I think you are as right as muslim and buddhist and most of the religions.

Then you believe that at points in time the laws of logic, such as the law of noncontradiction do not hold. This world view is by its very definition irrational. If both I and a Muslim have truth logic falls apart, because the muslim and I contradict. The Buddhist and I contradict as well. You see you don't understand the nature of truth. Truth doesn't change whether your talking about science or philosophy.

They have their books too you know.

I am aware, and they don't stand up next to the 66 documents of the Bible.

The guy came 2000 years ago, give me a break about knowing exactely what he meant and how it would be now.

Your argument shows your ignorance of how we construct our history. A document is considered easier to recreate based of the manuscripts available as well as the relation in time to the events it is describing. The NT documents in particular demolish any document from antiquity when it comes to both of these aspects. To say we don't know what Jesus said, is to say we cannot know anything for antiquity ever.

I'm sad you believe you destined to go to hell. But I thank you for this discussion:

I believe you sorely misunderstood me, but it seems English is not your first language so I will cut you some slack.

I understand better why faith get people to do insane stuff, in the name or their vengeful god, in fear of their version of hell.

At what point in time have I said anything about accepting Christ out of fear of Hell?

So where are these 100 different heavens and hells? Has anyone located this place? Wake up from the dream. God created one man and one woman? Then they went on to create so many different races. But evolution doe not exist. But they changed magically somehow.The earth is only 100,000 years old and dinosaurs are not real. Open your eyes and your mind. Step out of the stone age. Time to stop worship the sun, rocks ect.. It is only engineered to control the masses. a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

So where are these 100 different heavens and hells? Has anyone located this place? Wake up from the dream. God created one man and one woman? Then they went on to create so many different races. But evolution doe not exist. But they changed magically somehow.The earth is only 100,000 years old and dinosaurs are not real. Open your eyes and your mind. Step out of the stone age. Time to stop worship the sun, rocks ect.. It is only engineered to control the masses. a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

a reply to: roth1

God created one man and one woman? Then they went on to create so many different races. But evolution doe not exist. But they changed magically somehow.The earth is only 100,000 years old and dinosaurs are not real.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is 100,000 years. It doesn't teach that dinosaurs are not real. It doesn't teach that humans magically changed.....you have no idea what your talking about......maybe its you who should open their eyes and quite worshipping ignorance.

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

That's a great question, and our finite minds can only guess.

The Garden of Eden was in the cradle of civilization, which is in Iran if I'm not mistaken. The people there today have the same souls, the same life-giving source, and the same Creator. One thing that's hard to understand is that God's wisdom is greater than Anything we can comprehend. We were created in the image of God, but not with the wisdom and power. Imagine our own intelligence and wisdom times 1 billion. Then you might have one brain cell compared to God. So we cannot speak for God other than what He says in His Word. God is the one Judge, ultimately. What happens to Muslims, or Christians, when they die, is ultimately up to God. I wish I had the answers to this and a lot of questions, but I don't.

Trying to rationalize everything and create a scientific jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces fall into place just isn't going to work. The pieces will never fit perfectly, in our dimension. However, in another dimension they may be a perfect picture.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

One thing that's hard to understand is that God's wisdom is greater than Anything we can comprehend.

Yet the writings in the Bible allegedly inspired by God are simple, barbaric, and wholly anthropomorphized. While I agree if there was a creator god its intelligence and wisdom would be so beyond ours as to be incomprehensible; there is nothing incomprehensible about the Bible. Most people can intellectualize whats said in scripture, yet how many of us would be absolutely lost in a physics conference? God might exist, but to think his thoughts and wishes were captured in that book is antithetical to the understanding such a being would be immeasurably beyond us in intellect and knowledge.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

It doesn't teach that humans magically changed.....you have no idea what your talking about..

It doesn't? What was the Biblical reasoning for the change from 1000 year lifespans of early humans and the lifespans we have now?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Fair enough it doesn't mention a point in which God limits our life spans.

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

not all sects of christains believe in hell .
i dont lol
Hell is a jewish word pronounced sheol wich mean to be seperate from god forever
that got translated into greek and became hades in the greek bible then got translated to english
And became the word hell ..it means to be seperated from god destroyed you dont exist any more god is the only thing that can create energy an destroy it

a reply to: sweets777

I would agree with your definition of hell. The only thing I wouldn't be willing to back up completely is that God destroy's their consciousness. He may, but I can't think of anything I have read that would make me think he does.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

i took physics for a couple years and chemistry had too ........but i stay in touch with the field and all the best in thier field
are going to the bible finally for answers

To the big bang

The finite universe

And the infinite implosion of the atom

It is in the bible go read it for yourself dont look for god there or anything or watch the worlds best theroetical physisis
on you tube all the major ? s are answered in the bible .....so yes i can hold a theology conversation from the bible and
jump in the relm of physics with the bible

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

no its all in genesis go ask any physics major they are finally coming around lol .............
physics says all things are held together by sound and with sound you can change salt into granite
quarts into organic matter but we are all held together by a sound frequency
In the beginning was the word (sound) and the word was with god and the word was god (god is the frequency sound that holds us all together.

And read genesis for yourself before making such a bold statement there is more mystery and answers to whats going on in the world right now than you think in genesis

In the beginning the universe was nothing void not even empty space ANd god said (again sound) let there be light
And Bang there was not only light but everything it does say this if you read it for yourself
And the best in their field all the way backi to einstien say the universe is finite wich means it has an end and the best in the physics fie;ld will tell you that as far as they can tell nothing has any begininng the lighter in you hand has atoms that make up atoms that make up atoms ect.... so far that for all purposes they dont know why its held together but (sound)
And the universe has an end in theory but we cant see it lol or it has no end

Well here is your answer I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING OF EVERYTHING.

IN THE LAWS OF PHYSICS THAT MAKES SENSE PERFECT SENSE AND NOTHING BUT GOD CAN MAKE THAT CLAIM
And if there is a beginning or end to ANYTHING we havnt found it .

Now the Higgs Boson partical they thought they found the partical that makes up the particals of an atom and instead of finding like a double helix code they were hoping for they found 1s and os thats right binary in the physics world it was like expecting an answer finally but no you get a giant book of more ? ..............

Any way read that book for yourself there is really neat stuff in there not just im your god obey or else but some genuine mysteries aliens nephlim angels giants pyramids temples floods fireballs .....hell yea

a reply to: sweets777

I own many Bibles. I do read the Bible. I also watch religious debates. I also watch religious courses from The Teaching Company which come from professors.

The more I read, the less I believe.

The Bible is incompatible with science. At least Genesis is. Since you're bringing up physics and all that. I can redirect you to another thread where I elaborate. I've been repeating those arguments too much lately and I am sure I'm becoming tedious.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Then you believe that at points in time the laws of logic, such as the law of noncontradiction do not hold. This world view is by its very definition irrational. If both I and a Muslim have truth logic falls apart, because the muslim and I contradict.

Gee. Maybe English is not my native language but open mind isn't yours also. Metaphors. In all the 'bibles' there is metaphors. When John in 4:14 said :

"Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

You don't believe that in that guy there will ACTUALLY be a well? No, metaphor. So they are as right as you using metaphors.

I am aware, and they don't stand up next to the 66 documents of the Bible.

That I can't tell. You lead by a vast margin. But surely there are muslim or buddhist around. Anyone?

Your argument shows your ignorance of how we construct our history.

In all history there is a part of bull. If you think you could write anything you want in the past I suggest you learn about Copernic vs Church about heliocentrism.

I believe you sorely misunderstood me, but it seems English is not your first language so I will cut you some slack.

Please don't, but show compassion and clarify.


You see, I'm no enemy. We debate/exchange. I could say you're stubborn as a freaking mule or arrogant as hell to think you possess the truth but I simply don't think so. I learned something from you and what I surely learned in this earthly life, is that the best place to find God is in the heart of all my brothers and sisters of all faith color or gender.

Be well,

Jeff

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

sounds like you are where i was once i mean what the hell do we believe aliens reptilains in the bible
i mean the list goes on and on and on how did they build this why does it say that ect...
I dont know what your looking for there are you looking for god in the bible or are you looking for god to scientifically prove himself to you from the bible i dunno why the more you read the less you believe the more i see what we can do with our technology today the more i believe it was done in ancient days but there are lots of physicist out there talking about
the big bang and genesis being the same look on you tube Martin Reese is a good one
But these scientist are taking a look at hebrew scribes not just the kjv and finding god and the big bang one in the same
And how can you not see this as the same thing ............in the beginning was nothing void and god said let there be light .bang there was light and in the hebrew it goes on to say the form of matter the things we see and the things so small we cant see .....atoms ect.....it is really interesting stuff makes you wonder go look into it for your self im not trying to make you believe in god ...............i dont care if you do or not ill never meet you what do i care ....im mean like that but if you want ot be open minded go research yourself and see what these scientist are saying but in short thing are infintally small and the universe is infinate big there is no beginning or ending to anything but ..................

I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING OF EVERYTHING ............GOD SAID THAT lol
THE I AM JAHOVAH YHWH