Ukraine............Preparing for full scale war..............

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: anticitizen
so what do the rebels try to achieve?
do they want a certain part of ukraine to be russian then i'm fine with it.
ukraine will have no gain from that corner of their country anyway in the near future.

but if the rebels goal is to make whole ukraine a part of russia then we have a serious problem.

That's funny! So it's ok to carve off Crimea and some land the size of Texas from Ukraine, but not more! Ok, I'm calling the Canadian government right now. The new rules allow us to carve off Alaska without any interference so we'll do that. I'm sure the Russian will back that, we'll just give them more of the Arctic.

Sounds crazy when your logic gets applied around the world doesn't it? I hope it does at least!

California gets Baja Mexico!

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Greathouse

the original point was that Ukraine was somehow a slave state to Russia, a slave state that never provided anything, just leeched off Russia for decades.

I agree Ukraine was a Russian surf. They kept them under boot with Russian gass. Whenever they got out of line Russia cut them off or raised the prices. It also restricted trade from Ulraine to Russia but Ukraine wasn't allowed to do that because Russia would threaten them. Russia entire trade relations was threats and intimidation.we saw it when Russia played the games with Ukraine.They infiltrated there government there spy agencies. It was so bad that the SBU had to be entirely vetted. The Russians where getting information from them before Kiev.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: anticitizen
so what do the rebels try to achieve?
do they want a certain part of ukraine to be russian then i'm fine with it.
ukraine will have no gain from that corner of their country anyway in the near future.

but if the rebels goal is to make whole ukraine a part of russia then we have a serious problem.

That's funny! So it's ok to carve off Crimea and some land the size of Texas from Ukraine, but not more! Ok, I'm calling the Canadian government right now. The new rules allow us to carve off Alaska without any interference so we'll do that. I'm sure the Russian will back that, we'll just give them more of the Arctic.

Sounds crazy when your logic gets applied around the world doesn't it? I hope it does at least!

California gets Baja Mexico!

I'm thinking gulf property would be better nicer for vacations don't you think?? Maybe we should move a naval base to one of the Mexican resorts we could annex it like Russia and claim were protecting the rights of English speaking tourists. Lol

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Greathouse

the original point was that Ukraine was somehow a slave state to Russia, a slave state that never provided anything, just leeched off Russia for decades.

And so when Ukraine finally wanted to get its # in order and try to make some money with the EU, Russia had a fit!

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: anticitizen
so what do the rebels try to achieve?
do they want a certain part of ukraine to be russian then i'm fine with it.
ukraine will have no gain from that corner of their country anyway in the near future.

but if the rebels goal is to make whole ukraine a part of russia then we have a serious problem.

That's funny! So it's ok to carve off Crimea and some land the size of Texas from Ukraine, but not more! Ok, I'm calling the Canadian government right now. The new rules allow us to carve off Alaska without any interference so we'll do that. I'm sure the Russian will back that, we'll just give them more of the Arctic.

Sounds crazy when your logic gets applied around the world doesn't it? I hope it does at least!

California gets Baja Mexico!

Germany gets Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad.

Ah I remember Koenigsberg from somewhere....wasn't there a big Messhershmidt plant there once?
Perhaps I digress....

The Second world war part deux will continue in a few decades and .....................were back.....

Ukraine is the home of Chernobyl I think.....youd figurte Russia at least owed them something for that fiasco.....
They were nice enough to give back their atomic weapons.....
I said when they signed them away for useless guarantees of integrity that the Reds would be back....and here they are, little green men in my own lifetime.....

Where the hell are the signatories of the Budapest treaty now?
Cowering....hardly trying to drag Russia into a conflict that's for sure.....
Obama is on the 18th hole at some expensive(on our tab) godamn golf course, and the Vice presidents son is running a Ukrainian gas fracking company......
The bloody banksters have us jumping to all the wrong conclusions for maybe the right reasons maybe not......
Meantimes they are raking in the dough from every angle...insider trading....to split second buying and selling ahead of the curve....to derivatives that are the most worthless pieces of trash on the market...fixing the Libor and that other one (Sibor?) whatever....the big money is an engine unto itself now....
It neither sows nor does it reap,,,yet Solomon in all his glory, was never arrayed as such as these....
Capitalism is like a pyramid scheme.....
Socialism is simply another power ladder.....

Seems all this stuff going on has one root cause....MONEY.....
Eliminate that one factor......and there ya go....no more reasons for killing the neighbours and burning their house down.....

Yet the reptilian inside all of us still only knows how to rip and tear......
Truth is none of this is worth even one childs life or mothers grief.....

Looking at the unity side , the humanity in all of us must cringe from the shock of so much death ....like a # tsumnami
engulfing us all......

Technologically humans can feed the hungry...clothe the naked and cure the sick....provide homes and cater to each others interests.....without involving money.....

And without harming each other....

originally posted by: stirling
Ah I remember Koenigsberg from somewhere....wasn't there a big Messhershmidt plant there once?
Perhaps I digress....

lol yeah... It is currently called Kaliningrad and Russia currently occupies it. At the end of WWII Stalin forcibly evicted all germans from that land and resettled russians there. Pretty much like what he did in Ukraine and Crimea.

People use the argument that Russia has historical "claims" to crimea. If they are going to use that logic then Germany has every right to Kaliningrad.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Greathouse

the original point was that Ukraine was somehow a slave state to Russia, a slave state that never provided anything, just leeched off Russia for decades.

I agree Ukraine was a Russian surf. They kept them under boot with Russian gass. Whenever they got out of line Russia cut them off or raised the prices. It also restricted trade from Ulraine to Russia but Ukraine wasn't allowed to do that because Russia would threaten them. Russia entire trade relations was threats and intimidation.we saw it when Russia played the games with Ukraine.They infiltrated there government there spy agencies. It was so bad that the SBU had to be entirely vetted. The Russians where getting information from them before Kiev.

Not only then, even now with threats to cut Europe off in the process.

rt.com...

a reply to: Bearack

Russians are never good at negotiations. They tend to use threats and intimidation mire often than not. And when they do negotiate they usually get screwed over like the deal they did with China.

a reply to: dragonridr

Indeed. Russia's negotating strategy is #.

They had a perfect opportunity with the new government in Ukraine. Let's make a deal.

a) you sign over Crimea. We let you use your bases there.
b) You're completely broke. We give you cheap gas and economic freedom.
c) you don't complain or join NATO.
d) we don't invade
e) you can join EU commercially but not politically

Ukraine would take the deal. Both sides get what they need.

But Russia thinks of Ukraine* like a colony, not a country. Which is why most of Ukraine doesn't want them.

* and Georgia, Baltics, Poland, Armenia, etc

originally posted by: mbkennel
a reply to: dragonridr

Indeed. Russia's negotating strategy is #.

They had a perfect opportunity with the new government in Ukraine. Let's make a deal.

a) you sign over Crimea. We let you use your bases there.
b) You're completely broke. We give you cheap gas and economic freedom.
c) you don't complain or join NATO.
d) we don't invade
e) you can join EU commercially but not politically

Ukraine would take the deal. Both sides get what they need.

But Russia thinks of Ukraine* like a colony, not a country. Which is why most of Ukraine doesn't want them.

* and Georgia, Baltics, Poland, Armenia, etc

I agree Ukraine would have taken that offer and ran with it.