Ukraine............Preparing for full scale war..............

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I read them. And while I would agree that I wouldn't believe any source 100%,I will not believe anything I hear out of Kiev at all.

Cool thx been lurking for a while I found a pretty intersting article

www.alaskapublic.org...

Perhaps you can post it. Its pretty much saying NATO allies are preparing for artic warfare. Nato Vs Russia in my opinion.

a reply to: iSeeIn4D

Before you know it you have 20 posts and can do it yourself.

Pick a few of these kinds of threads to say something in and you`re quickly there...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: earthling42

both the UK and USA but also Russia guaranteed the integrity of the borders of Ukraine if it would be invaded.

No one guaranteed anything. What mentioned was......"in the event territorial integrity of Ukraine becomes a question under certain circumstances, then US, UK, France, Russia and others would come into consultations to solve the problem". US/NATO are NOT obliged, like in Article V of alliance, to jump into any war where Ukraine is involved.

Now what about Russia's obligations to Ukraine?

When Ukraine is making moves that are tantamount to a "pre-emptive" attack on Russia itself, then Kremlin will have to conduct matters to solve that problem. In other words, Ukraine making moves to join NATO and encircle Russia and so on and so forth...........would invite Russian moves in economic, political and military areas.

MOTHERf*****RS in Kiev are sooooooo in love with "Dreams of Free Dollars on Trees" in EU that they are willing to sacrifice good 10 to 20,000 KILLED in battles and another 20,000+ wounded and maimed for life.

AND STILL THESE EVIL CANNIBALS IN JUNTA HAVE IGNORED THE PLIGHT OF COMMON FAMILIES WHO'S SONS AND FATHERS THEY FORCEFULLY PLUCK OUT OF THE HOUSE AND SEND TO WAR TO BE SHOT UP AND KIA.

Very highly likely another coup is brewing in Kiev.............most probably from Right Sector type elements. That would give Kremlin a full green light to put its boot on Kiev in few weeks...............then round up good 10,000 of Right Sector elements and commit war crimes..........WW II style.

In WWII 50 Million Human Beings were killed over all because of fascist Nazi ideology. Such EXTREME ideologies like Nazi, ISIS etc. need to be nipped in the bud.........before they become the main reason for a global or even regional wars.

a reply to: victor7

I'm glad you said that. Ideologies kill people. Or to be more precise, blindly following ideologies makes killers out of people.

originally posted by: rickymouse
A new government takes over and puts the people in jeopardy of being killed then they want others to join in to share the blame of killing their citizens. This way nobody who joined in with their effort can judge their actions.

The losers are the Ukrainian people here and the ones who pay for this war. Russia did not start this war, the ones who took over Ukraine did. There is no reason they had to sever all ties with Russia. They could have been at peace with everyone.

Why is it that they always want or force the people to choose sides?

I think you may find this quote insighfull;


Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: Paul Craig Roberts

a reply to: learnatic

In mid 1990s, there was an intelligence warning that US should be careful of the new Cold War.............Europe dominated by Russia vrs the US-UK-Canada-Australia-NZ.

Guess US administrations have been working on that warning and throwing attempts to make it go away by trying to finish Russia off. That won't happen!!

US should not push any further, 'cause that can unleash bad energies on the humanity. Lots of progress has been made since WWII and lets keep on it !!

a reply to: Dimithae

Kiev is possibly a notch up from RT, which means it's almost all worthless propaganda.

originally posted by: victor7
Now what about Russia's obligations to Ukraine?

Russia has no obligations to Ukraine and visa versa. There are deep historical links but both nations are independent.

When Ukraine is making moves that are tantamount to a "pre-emptive" attack on Russia itself, then Kremlin will have to conduct matters to solve that problem. In other words, Ukraine making moves to join NATO and encircle Russia and so on and so forth...........would invite Russian moves in economic, political and military areas.

All Ukraine was doing was attempting to move closer to the West economically as the experiment with Russia has ensured Ukrainian's GDP has been stifled. As a sovereign nation they can chose what they like. Russia has to border others and cannot expect a buffer zone of second class nations who just supply cheap labour into Russia. Russia is not being encircled by NATO, that's a ludicrous statement - suggest getting an atlas?

MOTHERf*****RS in Kiev are sooooooo in love with "Dreams of Free Dollars on Trees" in EU that they are willing to sacrifice...

Well, the fact is that Ukraine has watched some of the old Soviet states that have joined the West get richer, while they have stagnated. Greece, if anything, disproves your "free dollars" quip. Ukrainians are sick of corruption and being held back.

Very highly likely another coup is brewing in Kiev.............most probably from Right Sector type elements.

Wishful thinking, just to keep your worldview alive. The vast majority of Ukraine is peaceful and looking forward and not fixated on WW2, Nazi's or the Soviet genocide etc...
Regards

a reply to: paraphi

Ukrainians are sick of corruption and being held back.

So who is to blame for that? Russians?

Russia gave $200B worth of energy subsidies to Ukraine since 1991. This alone speaks volumes as to how much Russia tried to coddle Ukes. What has EU given to Ukraine since the war crisis? Few billions as loans with interest to be paid off down the road.

Ukraine was known as the Brothel of Europe and it lived up to its name by trying to become an "official prostitute" of the west, even at the cost of 20K soldiers killed and higher number injured.

Except for Poland (that too at very mediocre levels), no Eastern European country has shown any major upliftment in economics and standards of living. The only charm of EU is for new members to go west directions and do menial jobs and try to send few hundred dollars back each month.

A winner nation will be a winner with or without EU.

As far as USNATO "encircling" Russia, I don't remember the West going 'all in' after the USSR collapse. In fact, it was a respectful process. The continuing existence of clowns like Putin, et al, is proof that there must have been enough goodwill after CW1 to allow the elite class to remain in power. It's the best way for US to have a responsible continuum of "governance".

This optimism disallowed a true Russian revolution, where heads would roll. The ultimate outcome is another leadership base failing the Russian people on an EPIC and historic scale.

originally posted by: victor7
So who is to blame for that? Russians?

Ukrainians are to blame for corruption in Ukraine. They are also responsible for solving it.

originally posted by: victor7
Russia gave $200B worth of energy subsidies to Ukraine since 1991. This alone speaks volumes as to how much Russia tried to coddle Ukes.

And failed. The Ukrainian economy has stagnated, corruption in rife and the pace is backward. Russia bought off Ukrainian national development and got a naval base out of it. Ukraine now want something better, or at least that's what the polls say.

originally posted by: victor7
What has EU given to Ukraine since the war crisis? Few billions as loans with interest to be paid off down the road.

Who knows what will come out of the increasingly closer ties between Ukraine and the EU. What has Russia done since the "war crisis"? Meddled and sought to cause division and mayhem.

originally posted by: victor7
Ukraine was known as the Brothel of Europe and it lived up to its name by trying to become an "official prostitute" of the west, even at the cost of 20K soldiers killed and higher number injured.

Really? "Brothel of Europe", how nice. Oh, and you keep saying 20,000 soldiers killed which is somewhat higher than the official tally. Any idea how many Russian nationals have died - you know, the one's who are not there?

originally posted by: victor7
Except for Poland (that too at very mediocre levels), no Eastern European country has shown any major upliftment in economics and standards of living. The only charm of EU is for new members to go west directions and do menial jobs and try to send few hundred dollars back each month.

Au contraire. The evidence is somewhat different if you took off the blinkers and looked. The changes are not just economic, but social and political. The corruption and nepotism that characterises Russia (for example) is not a feature of EU states.

originally posted by: victor7
A winner nation will be a winner with or without EU.

Totally agree. Yet the EU provides access a massive economic market place and improved civil, democratic and political liberties. Membership of NATO provides mutual defence. Both of these institutions are years away for Ukraine, should they choose to go down that path. That said, I imagine Ukraine wished they were a member of NATO now, because if they were Russia would not be acting the way it is.

Regards

a reply to: stirling

AAAHAHAAHA

Where is now John McCain who stood with his fists in the air On Maidan during western financed revolution

What's wrong folks, things not working as planned

Did we think Russia and Russian people are soft targets like say Libya

originally posted by: DanielJacksonKree
What's wrong folks, things not working as planned

The plan was for Russia to keep Ukraine as a slave state, so no, not working as planned. The slaves rebelled.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
The plan was for Russia to keep Ukraine as a slave state, so no, not working as planned. The slaves rebelled.

If things are going so well for those of you representing US and NATO and western bankers point of view

Then why do you guys constantly create threads moaning and crying

a reply to: DanielJacksonKree

I don't. And I don't know what they have to do with it. The people of Ukraine wanted to be free of their corrupt Russian overseers and chose another path. Russia didn't like it and has sent in soldiers to fight.

originally posted by: learnatic

originally posted by: rickymouse
A new government takes over and puts the people in jeopardy of being killed then they want others to join in to share the blame of killing their citizens. This way nobody who joined in with their effort can judge their actions.

The losers are the Ukrainian people here and the ones who pay for this war. Russia did not start this war, the ones who took over Ukraine did. There is no reason they had to sever all ties with Russia. They could have been at peace with everyone.

Why is it that they always want or force the people to choose sides?

I think you may find this quote insighfull;


Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: Paul Craig Roberts

The same lazy guy posting the exact same quote over 20 times now in every thread. Don't you get tired of spamming ATS with the same post over and over and over??? How about you spend a few minutes and post something about the thread topic? Oddly complaints to ATS result in nothing so calling you out in threads has to happen.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: DanielJacksonKree

I don't. And I don't know what they have to do with it. The people of Ukraine wanted to be free of their corrupt Russian overseers and chose another path. Russia didn't like it and has sent in soldiers to fight.

Ukraine will never be free if they join the EU. They will become debt slaves to EU for ever.

Debt slaves of a EU that is loaded With debt already. Does that sound like freedom?