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Do all Christians have blind faith?

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posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 10:57 PM
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God says this in Isaiah:


Isaiah 6
10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."


Jesus also echoes this sentiment in Matthew 13.

God implies that in order to be healed, you must see with your eyes and hear with your ears and that those who are not healed have their eyes closed.

Paul says this in 2 Corinthians:


2 Corinthians 5
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.


If Christians walk by faith and not by sight, doesn't that mean they walk with blind faith? If they do not use sight in their walk then they have their eyes closed, those with their eyes closed are not healed according to Isaiah.

Is this an implication that Christians are not healed by God? What do you guys think?

Please keep discussion civil, we are here to exchange ideas, not talk down to others. Thanks.




posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Not really a reply to your OP, but rather your title.

I think religious people have 'blind faith' in regards to their specific religious god and dogma. Not necessarily towards god-belief in of itself. I've heard some of the more intelligent religious debaters present metaphysical arguments for a creator god that are at least reasonable enough to strongly consider and perhaps warrant belief for said person. However those arguments are not specific to any one religious god. If those arguments should be considered evidence for Yahweh's existence then there is no reason it wouldn't also be evidence for say Brahmā. Ultimately the kinds of philosophical arguments used are for a general god concept, and not towards any specific religious deity. That gap is bridged with blind faith.

I'll make sure my next post is more relevant to your OP.
edit on 13-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't understand what you're asking. Every religion has faith, otherwise it wouldn't be religion, it would be scientific fact. The sentences from the Bible you are quoting need to be taken in context with the time in history, the events happening, what in fact God was saying, not as an argument against faith. That doesn't hold water.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Nice way of putting it, I agree. Any person who has belief in a specific religious God has blind faith in my opinion as well. I only ask the question in reference to Christians because I'm quoting Christian scripture.

Thanks for chiming in.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

According to the bible, God does not change. The context of both passages is the same when in reference to the Christian god because he is the one speaking or guiding the one that is writing. One passage says you must see with your eyes to be healed, the other says not to walk by sight (see with your eyes).

Faith and blind faith are not the same thing to the average Christian, I am working from that perspective here.

The definition of blind faith is: "belief without true understanding, perception or discrimination". Faith to a Christian is belief with true understanding, so they do not believe they have "blind" faith.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Here's a good chapter that explains faith.
Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.

23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.

31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
edit on 2 by AreUKiddingMe because: correction



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Blind faith is belief without true understanding, Christians claim to understand and thus their faith is not blind.

It would have been nice if you posted your own thoughts instead of copying and pasting an entire chapter from a book in the bible.


Thanks anyways though.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The Bible is where the answers are. Read and pray for understanding. That is the best way.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

The answers are in you, not the bible.

To each his own though.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Can't speak for Christians... but its easy to see God in all things with the right kind of eyes...

besides that... Jesus did say..

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed

Though yes... for the most part a good portion of Christians don't know their own book... they listen to their preachers, and don't learn for themselves...




posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
God says this in Isaiah:

Isaiah 6
10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."


The first thing that should be mentioned is that this is an Old Testament verse, also in the Jewish Tanakh (which is basically the OT). It was written before Christ and so while it's used by Christians on the topic of healing ailments through faith in Christ, it's also a bit of a stretch. That's all just my opinion though.

There was also something peculiar with the healing power that Jesus had. If anyone who follows him a certain way can heal disease instantly, there'd be no need for the modern practice of medicine and we'd live in a perfect world. Jesus was supposed to be God in the flesh, his followers no matter how good are merely human. Then the idea comes in that Jesus healed using the power of the Holy Spirit so mankind can 'channel' that power on that level as well, which is IMO wrong.

This idea I think was wrong from the get go, although I do believe Jesus was able to heal disease in an almost other-worldly fashion. It's almost as if there have been ignorant misunderstandings passed down as teachings; that a man who is operating in the Holy Spirit can miraculously cure any ailment. I do believe in occasional miracles but it is not the norm or to be expected. Mental and emotional illnesses seem to benefit the most, but that also might be due to the possible correctable nature of some of those diseases.

I'm nowhere close to the normal ideas that Christians are taught though, I'm a bit of a self-learned Christian.
edit on 2/14/2015 by r0xor because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I tend to take anything said by Jesus after the resurrection with a grain of salt. I think his bodily resurrection is the biggest lie of all, so anything said after it can't be trusted in my opinion. The apostles have the miraculous catch of fish after the resurrection (symbolizing the entrapment of Christians [fish] in a net) and he reinstates Peter, who denied him and even sat with the Roman soldiers at his trial.

Thanks for joining in brother. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions.



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

yeah I hear ya...

its interesting that the Trinitarian formula wasn't ever mentioned until he returned either... almost as if he didn't know about it... of course he didn't... Jesus would know better then to compare himself to God

Early Christians needed their God man though... Personally I think it is the whole "our god is better then yours" thing




posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:25 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

yeah I hear ya...

its interesting that the Trinitarian formula wasn't ever mentioned until he returned either... almost as if he didn't know about it... of course he didn't... Jesus would know better then to compare himself to God

Early Christians needed their God man though... Personally I think it is the whole "our god is better then yours" thing



Which means the "Holy Spirit" was a man made implication right?

Maybe Jesus had healing powers that only he could use.

This thread is starting to get so heretical. You know.. the Arian Christians had a pretty interesting outlook on Christ and his "powers". Worth looking into. It's also been said that the places with the most Arian Christians ended up becoming Islamic because of a similar view on the humanity of Jesus.
edit on 2/14/2015 by r0xor because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

While I think the Trinity has a bit of truth to it, the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is bunk.

God is One, not three. I think you know my views on the Trinity though... I think?



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: r0xor

Not so much... Jesus spoke of the holy spirit...

He just didn't make it equal to God... same as he didn't make himself equal to God

His followers did, but that's because of the religion they were a part of... Jews seem to believe any association with God means you are making yourself equal to him... which is just wrong




posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Jesus said the Father was greater than he. He put himself AT LEAST one notch below God, not equal to him. Just because you are one with something doesn't mean you are equal to it. My hand is one with my body, but is my hand my body? No, my body is more than just a hand.


Luke 23
3 So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "You have said so," Jesus replied.


If Jesus was king of the Jews (God) then the plaque put above his head wouldn't have been considered an insult and Jesus would have replied "yes".
edit on 2/14/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: r0xor

Actually I know all about Arius... Gots me a Thread on him and everything


Arian Christians believed Jesus was divine as well, but they didn't believe he was equal to God... to them he was subordinate. Arius said Christ was a created being just like the rest of us, but he still existed before everything in the physical existed

Arius stuck to the gospels... it was his opponents who didn't... and ended up winning the whole controversy




posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Of course he was subordinate to God, he says so himself.



John 14
10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.


Christians believing Jesus was God is an example of blind faith. They do not understand what Jesus means here, yet they still believe he IS the Father, even though Jesus clearly differentiates himself from the Father.

This verse also calls into question something Jesus said after the resurrection.


Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.


Before the resurrection Jesus says he is not speaking on his own authority, after the resurrection Jesus claims all authority is his. Hmmmm....
edit on 2/14/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 01:15 AM
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this is the problem i have with the argument that people who believe in a specific god, have blind faith:

you are you, and they are them. these are not the same thing and you and they, do not have the same experiences. it's impossible to tell a person who has had an experience that they didn't have it, without having totally blind faith in your position because 1) you aren't them, and 2) therefore the belief that you do know, is based on no evidence whatsoever about someone else's experience



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