I am not an atheist by choice

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Badgered1

I hope I find my faith soon too. And I'll be sure that if I do find it, I'll share it here first. Thanks for your input. I felt good knowing there people in the same boat as I am.

why do you want faith? what makes you think you will be any better off?

Because I want to feel that feeling of unconditional love that the devout always tell me about. That absolute certainty that despite what I suffer through in my waking life, something wonderous awaits me after I die. I'm not afraid to admit that I fear death. I fear the nothingness of non-existence.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I think you're missing the point of this whole thread--some of us don't lack faith because we didn't try our damndest (in my case, for about two decades), it's that faith in a religion or its god just doesn't move us to believe. You can't just tell us to talk to something in which we don't believe and think that will convince us that you've given us the key to faith. It's almost like you aren't paying attention to what we described in our comments on our efforts and longing to believe for many years.

I dont think Ive missed the point, in fact, I think the opposite is true. The OP seems to be implying that you are either capable of faith or you are not. That is not true. If you can think, then you can have faith. What I am getting from this thread is that the OP and people such as yourself cannot force themselves to believe something that they have already chosen not to believe.

Singing and praying does not make you faithful. In legitimate cases, they express the faith of the individual.

What I am trying to communicate in a rhetorical manor is:

Are you willing to believe that God exists? If so, will are you willing to accept His answers when you ask in prayer?

If yes, then you have CHOSEN to believe, if no, you have CHOSEN not to believe.

Its as simple as personal choice, and the responsibility that comes with choice.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I think you're missing the point of this whole thread--some of us don't lack faith because we didn't try our damndest (in my case, for about two decades), it's that faith in a religion or its god just doesn't move us to believe. You can't just tell us to talk to something in which we don't believe and think that will convince us that you've given us the key to faith. It's almost like you aren't paying attention to what we described in our comments on our efforts and longing to believe for many years.

I dont think Ive missed the point, in fact, I think the opposite is true. The OP seems to be implying that you are either capable of faith or you are not. That is not true. If you can think, then you can have faith. What I am getting from this thread is that the OP and people such as yourself cannot force themselves to believe something that they have already chosen not to believe.

Singing and praying does not make you faithful. In legitimate cases, they express the faith of the individual.

What I am trying to communicate in a rhetorical manor is:

Are you willing to believe that God exists? If so, will are you willing to accept His answers when you ask in prayer?

If yes, then you have CHOSEN to believe, if no, you have CHOSEN not to believe.

Its as simple as personal choice, and the responsibility that comes with choice.

I don't think I can "Choose" to have faith any more than someone can "choose" to be gay.

Trust me, I want to believe. I truly do, but I have found that I cannot.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

But see if all religions are right, then at the same time all religions are wrong. But when you look at them as guesses trying to explain the events around us, then they make more sense.

To me belief in religion is the same as ignorance being bliss. You wrap yourself in a lie for comfort, then deceive yourself that you are believing a lie.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Because I want to feel that feeling of unconditional love that the devout always tell me about. That absolute certainty that despite what I suffer through in my waking life, something wonderous awaits me after I die. I'm not afraid to admit that I fear death. I fear the nothingness of non-existence.

dont sacrifice your intellectual integrity for a bit of philosophical security, for then you deserve neither.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Because I want to feel that feeling of unconditional love that the devout always tell me about. That absolute certainty that despite what I suffer through in my waking life, something wonderous awaits me after I die. I'm not afraid to admit that I fear death. I fear the nothingness of non-existence.

dont sacrifice your intellectual integrity for a bit of philosophical security, for then you deserve neither.

Who told you that connecting with the Divine was about intellect, philosophy, or what you may or may not deserve?

And why didn't you have the presence of mind to question them?

Don't bother answering, those are rhetorical questions.

👣

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You've been given faith your whole life, but instead of translating that faith into belief, you doubt it and translate/image that doubt into disbelief.

Seek God, not signs and wonders - if you stare at the forest from a distance you will not see the branch extended to you.

I have struggled with this question my entire life.

Hey OP, I have one question for you.

Think about the worst day of your life. Maybe it's a loved one critically injured.

You are waiting for word from the Doctor. At this point, you just want them to live.

Do you drop down to your knees and beg God to save your loved one ?

originally posted by: whyamIhere
I have struggled with this question my entire life.

Hey OP, I have one question for you.

Think about the worst day of your life. Maybe it's a loved one critically injured.

You are waiting for word from the Doctor. At this point, you just want them to live.

Do you drop down to your knees and beg God to save your loved one ?

I honestly don't know. My worst day was when I found out that my best friend had passed away and I was half a world away from her. I couldn't beg for God to bring her back, I knew it would yield nothing. The dead cannot come back to life, and I know that. I've never been in a situation where I was desperate enough in my adult life to call out to God for help. I suppose, given the right circumstances, I would.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I've wanted it since I was a child, and I still want it even today. What is it I'm not seeing?

That you can not want faith without already having it.
Besides, there is no better explanation to lifes mysteries
another period.

My own personal experience tells me otherwise. I've wanted faith for a long time, and it's never come. Try to put yourself in my shoes. Imagine WANTING that faith so badly that you cry yourself to sleep frequently. That you try to talk to God, you listen and watch for answers you cannot or do not see. Imagine the disappointment in yourself because regardless of how much you want it, it's something you can't have.

That is my life.

Then describe to me what you think faith is?

Here you are calling someone you have no faith in and so upset you are crying?

You sound like someone with a good deal of faith. Is there something else you expected?

I call out to him. I pray (not much anymore, it's always led to heartache). People have always told that they could FEEL god's love in them. That they could FEEL the lord's presence. I have never felt that. I've never felt the kind of things the religious have told me they feel. That euphoria in being awash in his love, I've never had that.

Yeah, well, not everyone feels Him that way.

I don't, but I'm not an emotional person. At most, I can maybe feel a sense of presence. Mostly I trust he's there. I have faith.

If you are of the analytical mindset, you may need to simply find a way to rationalize your way there and trust in that rationalization. That's how my husband "feels" God. He sees the beauty of God in his work as a microbiologist and the marvel of how the Universe works. For my husband, God is the Ultimate Scientist.

We all have our own way of approaching God, and yes, some will tell you they feel awash in His love, but that's their way. It may not be yours. We all walk our own path. Remember, the way is narrow.

a reply to: whyamIhere

It reminds me of the "there is no atheists in foxholes" argument. I like to think that while the non atheists were huddling in the hole praying to God, the atheists were still active in the foray, and who knows, perhaps trying to save the lives of those who were praying. In other words, praying does nothing for those who are ill, but more for those who are praying, while those not praying might be too busy trying to help in more productive ways.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

I don't think I can "Choose" to have faith any more than someone can "choose" to be gay.

Trust me, I want to believe. I truly do, but I have found that I cannot.

EXACTLY!

My gramma was Catholic. She tried to raise me Cathloic.

I was standing up on the pew one Sunday, I was 5 years old. I looked around at all the gold and ornateness of the Catholic Church. In my 5 year old mind I'm thinking, God is suppose to be this great guy who helps people. In church they always talk about the poor. So I loudly asked, as I again looked around: "Why does God need all this?"

I never got it. What is the decor suppose to make you feel? Is it advertising? Is it like being at a new car dealer, saying "I want that"?

Although I understand an energy euphoria of congregating, I mostly remember the pettiness.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

To be truly atheist, you would have to know there was no god. What you are, I suspect from you post, is more accurately called 'agnostic', which means that you don't know if there is a god or isn't.

There is nothing wrong with you if you have not had a 'religious experience', not everyone does.

It would also be wrong to expect emotional validation or group membership to be a substitute for genuine faith. In that regard, you are courageous for standing out against the 'herd'.

I personally have faith in Christ and pray that you have a moment of epiphany, if that is what you seek.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I think you're missing the point of this whole thread--some of us don't lack faith because we didn't try our damndest (in my case, for about two decades), it's that faith in a religion or its god just doesn't move us to believe. You can't just tell us to talk to something in which we don't believe and think that will convince us that you've given us the key to faith. It's almost like you aren't paying attention to what we described in our comments on our efforts and longing to believe for many years.

I dont think Ive missed the point, in fact, I think the opposite is true. The OP seems to be implying that you are either capable of faith or you are not. That is not true. If you can think, then you can have faith. What I am getting from this thread is that the OP and people such as yourself cannot force themselves to believe something that they have already chosen not to believe.

Singing and praying does not make you faithful. In legitimate cases, they express the faith of the individual.

What I am trying to communicate in a rhetorical manor is:

Are you willing to believe that God exists? If so, will are you willing to accept His answers when you ask in prayer?

If yes, then you have CHOSEN to believe, if no, you have CHOSEN not to believe.

Its as simple as personal choice, and the responsibility that comes with choice.

I don't think I can "Choose" to have faith any more than someone can "choose" to be gay.

Trust me, I want to believe. I truly do, but I have found that I cannot.

Then you chose not to believe.

Here's the thing - No can prove there is a God. True.

But - No can prove there is not a God. Also true.

So it does not matter which way you fall on the spectrum - Believe in God; don't believe in God. Either end takes faith. Really the only end that is intellectually honest, as it were based on what we actually know to be true, is agnosticism which says there is no way to know if there is a God or not.

So you very much choose whether you will believe or not.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Praying does nothing for those who are ill? That statement sounds like it's based on ideology, not empiricism. Are you not aware of distance healing experiments using fMRI? Among other things?



👣

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

I've never been in a situation where I was desperate enough in my adult life to call out to God for help.

You have never been in a locked room for an extended period of time with me before.

Perhaps Spiritual Atheism will help you.

For Spiritual Atheists, being "spiritual" means (at the very least) to nurture thoughts, words, and actions that are in harmony with the idea that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale. Therefore, Spiritual Atheists generally feel that as they go about their lives striving to be personally healthy and happy, they should also be striving to help the world around them be healthy and happy. ("Wholistic Ethics")

www.centerforabetterworld.com...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

I've never been in a situation where I was desperate enough in my adult life to call out to God for help.

You have never been in a locked room for an extended period of time with me before.

Don't give me such lurid fantasies! I would certainly be saying "Oh God" a lot, though. ^_~

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

To be truly atheist, you would have to know there was no god. What you are, I suspect from you post, is more accurately called 'agnostic', which means that you don't know if there is a god or isn't.

That is incorrect. No honest atheist would claim there is no God. Only that they lack belief there is a god.

Atheist means lack of belief in a god.

Agnostic means God can not be proven or disproven.

Basically everyone is agnostic. Theist -- Atheist only indicates which way you lean.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: whyamIhere

It reminds me of the "there is no atheists in foxholes" argument. I like to think that while the non atheists were huddling in the hole praying to God, the atheists were still active in the foray, and who knows, perhaps trying to save the lives of those who were praying. In other words, praying does nothing for those who are ill, but more for those who are praying, while those not praying might be too busy trying to help in more productive ways.

There is no right answer.

Truth is, none of us know.

It's very frustrating for people like us that question everything.

Even as a kid...I had questions.