I am not an atheist by choice

double post sorta.... weird

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I think the insistence that I can just choose to believe and simply just choose not to is one of the things that frustrates me most about evangelicals. Well, is right up there with the insistence that if I don't believe there's no reason for me to be a decent person...

Belief is a thing that happens, is something that occurs when things click together just right in the brain. With reasoning you can influence it, but not create it. If you are one for whom, the reasoning you are capable of does not mesh with having faith in something, you will never have faith in that thing unless something comes along that makes such reasoning possible.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
What is it I'm not seeing?

I think you're not seeing the connection between mystical experience (through entheogens or meditation) and faith. There would be no faith in the first place without entheogens.

👣

a reply to: ScientificRailgun


Yeah...Never mind.

S+F regardless...

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I've wanted it since I was a child, and I still want it even today. What is it I'm not seeing?

That you can not want faith without already having it.
Besides, there is no better explanation to lifes mysteries
another period.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That you can not want faith without already having it.

Um sure you can. Is called wanting to fit in with your family and peers and to not be different. Is called hearing how faith makes others feel and wishing you too could experience it.

None of this requires having faith, just wanting something you do not have.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Seeing your replies in this thread, I cannot help but think, maybe you are trying to hard.

In all seriousness, try this when you have some time. Pack a lunch, and take a short hike somewhere you can be away from people but close to nature. Then relax and enjoy where you are for just a moment.

I am not saying you will have the holy spirit jump into you, but it does help put things in better perspective and allows you to think about how so much beauty could exist randomly.

(if you pack a cold beer, it makes everything a tiny bit better)

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Im sorry to hear that your family and friends reacted in such a way, but faith is by choice. If you try to atain it by works, then you are substituting faith with works.

If you have a desire to believe, then what stops you? Simply believe that Jesus paid the debt of our sins, and you are saved.

Do you have trouble believing that Jesus existed? Do you have trouble believing that God exists? Ask God for the answers, and realize that those answers may not be what you want to believe.

That's the thing, I cannot physically CHOOSE to believe. I can pray my little Railgun heart out, but I don't FEEL what others have described as faith. I've read the passages, I've sang the songs, I've had the baptisms, and it was all just motions for me. I can't CHOOSE to believe God is real. I'd be lying to myself and everyone around me if I said I did believe, and I don't believe in being dishonest.

In a sense, it is about choice. But only in a sense, there are many things that those who don't believe will tell you are impossible.

Those are things you have choose to keep yourself open to. You have to make the conscious choice that those things are possible in order to have faith. Remember, faith doesn't need proof. It just is. Look up the definition of faith to see what I mean. So in order to have faith in God, you have to make the choice to nurture that possibility and remain open to Him.

Once you have made the choice to keep yourself open to Him, then it's about finding a way to connect to Him in a way that gives you a tangible sense of that faith. I'm not talking about an actual manifestation. Those don't happen for every person, but you have to keep your faith open and nurture it in order to even have the chance of receiving any such thing. It is possible for Him to show an interest out of the blue, but more likely if you remain open and are nurturing your faith.

I won't lie. It can be a struggle. Even more so in today's world where so much is geared toward telling you that you are being irrational.

Try C.S. Lewis. He's one of my favorites.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I've wanted it since I was a child, and I still want it even today. What is it I'm not seeing?

That you can not want faith without already having it.
Besides, there is no better explanation to lifes mysteries
another period.

My own personal experience tells me otherwise. I've wanted faith for a long time, and it's never come. Try to put yourself in my shoes. Imagine WANTING that faith so badly that you cry yourself to sleep frequently. That you try to talk to God, you listen and watch for answers you cannot or do not see. Imagine the disappointment in yourself because regardless of how much you want it, it's something you can't have.

That is my life.

a reply to: Puppylove

OP didn't care about fitting in obviously.

So just as obviously they are two different things.

originally posted by: Puppylove
originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

That you can not want faith without already having it.

Um sure you can. Is called wanting to fit in with your family and peers and to not be different. Is called hearing how faith makes others feel and wishing you too could experience it.

None of this requires having faith, just wanting something you do not have.

You perfectly describe how I feel. I want to feel that. I want to feel that warmness, the quiet satisfaction in know you trust in Him and He loves you. I WANT that. But I can't have it, and it's infuriating.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I've wanted it since I was a child, and I still want it even today. What is it I'm not seeing?

That you can not want faith without already having it.
Besides, there is no better explanation to lifes mysteries
another period.

My own personal experience tells me otherwise. I've wanted faith for a long time, and it's never come. Try to put yourself in my shoes. Imagine WANTING that faith so badly that you cry yourself to sleep frequently. That you try to talk to God, you listen and watch for answers you cannot or do not see. Imagine the disappointment in yourself because regardless of how much you want it, it's something you can't have.

That is my life.

Then describe to me what you think faith is?

Here you are calling someone you have no faith in and so upset you are crying?

You sound like someone with a good deal of faith. Is there something else you expected?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If I didn't want my faith in God it wouldn't be there.
You need to imagine what I'm saying, if you truly want
faith? You see what I'm questioning don't you? I'm questioning
your whole story.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Puppylove

OP didn't care about fitting in obviously.

So just as obviously they are two different things.

Notice I also mentioned wanting what others said they feel, ect. I didn't just say, to fit in. Was giving multiple reasons someone could want it without needing faith first.

Also, just because the OP chose to finally accept themselves and try to be true to themselves does not mean they did not care about fitting in so much as, they hit that point where lying to themselves and others was harder on them then just trying to fit and be what is expected.

As a transgender woman I know a bit about what that's like.

a reply to: network dude

When I get some time off (Which is pretty uncommon, Japanese work ethic and all), I try to go to the temples and shrines near Kyoto and just walk in the forests surrounding them or sit down somewhere and just close my eyes and listen to nature. It's very calming, and does allow for a lot of introspection. Unfortunately, Kyoto's a long train ride and I can't always find time to go out there.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I've wanted it since I was a child, and I still want it even today. What is it I'm not seeing?

That you can not want faith without already having it.
Besides, there is no better explanation to lifes mysteries
another period.

My own personal experience tells me otherwise. I've wanted faith for a long time, and it's never come. Try to put yourself in my shoes. Imagine WANTING that faith so badly that you cry yourself to sleep frequently. That you try to talk to God, you listen and watch for answers you cannot or do not see. Imagine the disappointment in yourself because regardless of how much you want it, it's something you can't have.

That is my life.

Then describe to me what you think faith is?

Here you are calling someone you have no faith in and so upset you are crying?

You sound like someone with a good deal of faith. Is there something else you expected?

I call out to him. I pray (not much anymore, it's always led to heartache). People have always told that they could FEEL god's love in them. That they could FEEL the lord's presence. I have never felt that. I've never felt the kind of things the religious have told me they feel. That euphoria in being awash in his love, I've never had that.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Don't hurry, you have all day long.

a reply to: Puppylove

As a transgender woman I know a bit about what that's like.

I wouldn't tell everybody.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If I didn't want my faith in God it wouldn't be there.
You need to imagine what I'm saying, if you truly want
faith? You see what I'm questioning don't you? I'm questioning
your whole story.

the difference between your god and gravity.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
People have always told that they could FEEL god's love in them. That they could FEEL the lord's presence.

"Generating the divine within" is literally what entheogen means. That's how you feel God in you.

Do you want to know God or do you want to rehash the same old arguments with the same old kind of believers with the same old kind of dogma?

You need to undergo ego-death and rebirth. You can't think or cry your way to the Divine.

👣