Operation Indigo Skyfold

originally posted by: ConnectDots
In my opinion, trying to test to prove or disprove chemtrails is not the answer. I believe paying attention to whistleblowers is the only way to find out what is going on from the courageous insiders who are trying to let you know.

Yeah, why let pesky things like testable evidence get in the way of a good story.

originally posted by: ConnectDots

You're saying it's a fake?

I am saying that geowatch calling it a chemtrail spraying plane interior is just them saying so - they haven't actually provided any justification for that so why believe them?

Do you have any actual take-down notice from FB that says why an account with this photo was taken down

Of course not. Why would I have such a thing?

because the topic is that posting that photo will/might get your FB page taken down and why that would happen is quiet important to that topic.

The more important issue is the other photo.

Do you believe it's a picture of busy air traffic?

Certainly looks like it - is there any reason I should believe otherwise?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

So, in essence, you're calling the photo a fake, are you not?

That video is the first time I've seen that photo. Had you seen it before? If so, I would be interested in the link so that I can look in to it further.

Thanks for a straight answer. No, it doesn't appear normal to me at all.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

If we didn't have a shadow government, which by the way, carries out assassinations, we wouldn't even be discussing this issue. The government would be telling us what's going on instead of behaving like puppets on a string.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

I believe you have missed my point.

You joked about the Tavistock Institute. At least that was the context of the phrase you picked up on, which was the system we live in where professionals mess with the minds of the entire populace. That was the intent of my comment.

I would again encourage everyone to watch that short video and then follow up on it with some reading.

a reply to: ConnectDots

Do you consider this to be normal air traffic?

a reply to: ConnectDots
I ''missed'' nothing. I get your point.

There was no joke.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't think that is valid for evidence of what one little piece of sky would look like where looking up, as in that photo.

a reply to: ConnectDots

Really? You don't think evidence of 5,000 flights an HOUR is relevant? Then what IS relevant in your mind?

Another interview of AC Griffith:

a reply to: Zaphod58

Maybe how many flights at the exact spot where that photo was taken.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

So, in essence, you're calling the photo a fake, are you not?

not at all - as far as I know the photo is completely not fake.

geoengineeringwatch's claism that it is the inside of a chemtrail plane are a lie - they know it is not, but they still repeat it.

s with many claims about chemtrails, the visual images are not faked (only a small number are actually photoshopped AFAIK) - but the claims made about them are ..um..."not supported by actual evidence"

That video is the first time I've seen that photo. Had you seen it before? If so, I would be interested in the link so that I can look in to it further.

it's on metabunk - be warned There's a thread there about aircraft interiors being said to be chemtrail planes -

specifically those with ballast barrels

Thanks for a straight answer. No, it doesn't appear normal to me at all.

I would call it unusual - but completely explainable by what we know about contrail behavior.

a reply to: ConnectDots

There are over 25,000 commercial flights over the US on a daily basis. There is nowhere in this country that doesn't have dozens of flights going over at any given time. Add in military and general aviation and the total number of flights jumps even higher.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
not at all - as far as I know the photo is completely not fake.

Because the debate was about the Facebook part of it, in my mind, I was talking about the whole thing, not just the aircraft.

There are three parties involved here: Geoengineering Watch, Facebook, and the YouTuber for the video.

geoengineeringwatch's claism that it is the inside of a chemtrail plane are a lie - they know it is not, but they still repeat it.

If you are unaware of what's really going on, you could be wrong.

That's why I have to keep repeating myself about not succumbing to a smear of a whistleblower.

And to be aware of the psychological operations that we're all subjected to and how they shape what we believe to be true. How they affect our frame of reference - all of us.

I would call it unusual - but completely explainable by what we know about contrail behavior.

I completely get it now about contrail behavior.

What doesn't look normal to me is the volume being accounted for by normal air traffic - granted we have busy total air traffic, but I don't think it's that busy.

I completely get it now about contrail behavior.

What doesn't look normal to me is the volume being accounted for by normal air traffic - granted we have busy total air traffic, but I don't think it's that busy.

How busy do you think it is then? And what are you basing it on?

Have a look at this. Is it kindof what you were expecting, as far as the number of planes?

www.flightradar24.com...

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: waynos
You twisted the term "psychological operation," not "psychological." There's a difference.

No there isn't. Every chemtrail site on the internet is a Psychological operation designed to get you to believe in something that does not exist.

Have you seen Danes latest chemtrail proof? The Thai 747 dumping fuel due to a flap problem? You still think he doesn't tell lies though don't you. Point proven.

So where did I say that the claim in the caption came from Facebook? Only you seem to think that.

originally posted by: payt69
But then again, maybe TPTB are just you and me too. As long as peole have ego's that htey feel need defending, there will be 'us' vs 'them'.

Yes, us and them is a problem.

Is a debate an attempt to overcome that problem and move forward? In my opinion, that's largely the benefit of debate.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
What to make of the claims that those trails weren't around before the 90s? Does he think before he speaks?

Bearing in mind the topic of us vs. them as a mindset, and how it affects public affairs, what was your rationale there?

originally posted by: ConnectDots
Back to the video in the OP.

Judging from the remarks so far, I suppose this is considered by most to be a fake photo, or in some other way deceptive by Wigington?

And this is a picture of contrails from lots of air traffic in today's busy world, or, a fake Wigington photo?

And what about the TEXT OF PILOT MESSAGE: December 8, 2014?

Is it phony?

originally posted by: network dude

So far, the only whistleblowers have been proven to be fakes.

Does that include the whistleblower for this thread?

Why are Facebook involved? All we have is a caption that tells you posting the pic on Facebook could have consequences. Yet this picture IS on a chemtrail Facebook page, there are many chemtrail Facebook pages that exist without problems. Facebook are most likely just happy to keep racking up the likes and shares and don't give a stuff about the picture, you see? There is nothing to suggest that warning came from Facebook themselves at all. But it does make that photo look a bit dangerous, a bit of hot property, you see?

Regarding the trails photo. I see 8 trails. That means that, even if the trails only persisted for 30 minutes you had four aircraft transit 'left to right' and four 'top to bottom' (we don't know the orientation of the image).

That would be one aircraft in each direction every 7 minutes. That seems perfectly normal to me, in my experience, plus trails can last much longer than 30 minutes and we have no context for the image.

Why does it seem otherwise to you?

originally posted by: ConnectDots

originally posted by: payt69
But then again, maybe TPTB are just you and me too. As long as peole have ego's that htey feel need defending, there will be 'us' vs 'them'.

Yes, us and them is a problem.

Is a debate an attempt to overcome that problem and move forward? In my opinion, that's largely the benefit of debate.

Depends on what you're debating. If you're trying to hash out the truth of the chemtrail claim, I think it's best to avoid all these subjective matters and stick to the facts as much as possible. It'd be a rather technical debate, as far as I'm concerned.

I vividly recall a debate between Dane Wigington and Mick west, and Mick hads to explain to Dane what an aerodynamic contrail is. You'd think that after all the time Dane has spent refuting contrails, he'd at least know what he's talking about.. but he doesn't!

Dane:... even though they're changing altitude as well. You describe that this is all perfectly natural phenomenon, when we see, we have films of aircraft, you know, clear shutting on and off with dispersement that's coming from, we see rear engined jets with trails coming from the front wing. ... we see patterns

Mick: ... that can be explained completely...

[crosstalk]

John: I think he knows, ..., you're going to say ice is on the wing? Right.

Mick: No. That's a, what's called an "aerodynamic" contrail. The decrease in pressure on the top of the wing causes water to condense. It's a well known phenomena.

Dane: So why would that shut on and off then? Because there's video of that shutting on and off...

Mick: ... same reason. It's going in and out of areas of high and low humidity...

Dane: ... why do they need nozzles? Why do they need nozzles on the wings?

Mick: They don't have nozzles on the wings. What you are looking at in that video is flap fairings. Which are, basically little pods on the wings which contain the mechanism, like it's a big hinge, which raises and lowers the flaps for landing. It looks a bit like a nozzle, but it's not. So, it's a flap fairing. Ask any pilot what it is. Show them that video, and they'll tell you what it is.

www.metabunk.org...