Massive Donetsk Ukraine Explosion

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: yuppa

And that is basically what Putin said about Obama's threats to get involved in the Syrian civil war.

Anyone else see a double standard?

Diffrence is IM NOT IN CHARGE OF A MILITARY. If i was id had ended this already. If the world wants a villan and they point at you. give them a villan. When i turn 40 elect me. I promise ill make the US the villan we are portrayed to be.

For what its worth, according to DPR this is what they have found...

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Anytime the US government considers intervening in a local conflict in the world, there is an uproar and accusations of meddling for personal gain. Why should Russia be treated any differently?

Because US pokes its nose in lots of nations affairs, near and far. Russia only minds its business in its neighborhood and mostly to the intrusive attempts by the US ex: Georgia and now Ukraine.

ps: do not want to go back to same stale arguments of NATO expansion right or wrong and so on. Basically, west should understand where the NATO expansion should have ended. Russia is no Libya or Iraq and miscalculating such facts will result in bad experiences for the west.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Nice try, but your nonsensical attempt to turn my comment around against the US is overplayed and ineffective.

Read my post again, if you wish to debate instead of flooding the thread with rhetoric. Not one word was in defense of the US. Rather, I was pointing out that you rabid pro-Russia members hold a double standard when it comes to military intervention.

It's ok for Russia to pick a side in local conflicts, but never for the US or its allies. Am I right?

cut the crap already and stop derailing this thread.

local conflict, yeah? how the f... is ukraine in any damn way 'local' to the US? go to your side of the ocean.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
For what its worth, according to DPR this is what they have found...

according to the wikipedia, tochka has 0.65m (2ft 2in) diameter.
something doesn't add up here.

Btw, Obama has given the ULTIMATUM to Putin. Tomorrow is crucial. Putin should not agree to any nonsense as lots of men and machines have been wasted already. Kiev should walk away from NovoRossiya provinces and mind its own business. If US provides weapons to Kiev then Russia should warm up hostile theaters elsewhere for US to get bloody and messed up.

Readout of the President's Call with President Putin of Russia

President Obama today called President Vladimir Putin of Russia to address the escalating violence in eastern Ukraine and Russia’s ongoing support for the separatists there. President Obama reiterated America’s support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. President Obama underscored the rising human toll of the fighting and underscored the importance of President Putin seizing the opportunity presented by the ongoing discussions between Russia, France, Germany, and Ukraine to reach a peaceful resolution. The President emphasized the importance of reaching and implementing a negotiated settlement underpinned by the commitments in the Minsk agreement. However, if Russia continues its aggressive actions in Ukraine, including by sending troops, weapons, and financing to support the separatists, the costs for Russia will rise.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

It seems to me also larger as to what I was expecting, that`s why I put "for what its worth."

lets see if there are weapon experts coming out in the next couple of days who can shed some light on these pieces.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: jedi_hamster

It seems to me also larger as to what I was expecting, that`s why I put "for what its worth."

lets see if there are weapon experts coming out in the next couple of days who can shed some light on these pieces.

larger?

imho that wreckage is too small to be tochka.

here is tochka:
defence.pk...

well, it could be a small part of propulsion system, then it would perhaps match. still, that's a little scrap of metal for such a missile.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

To me it looks like larger (I got a big screen PC ), but it`s difficult to see...but I saw it again and at 0:34 they show an identification plate, so if it comes really from the site, they probably will know it...I don`t think they will show it and be wrong with id plate.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Here`s the video, it doesn`t look to have that big of diameter to me.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: jedi_hamster

To me it looks like larger (I got a big screen PC

), but it`s difficult to see...but I saw it again and at 0:34 they show an identification plate, so if it comes really from the site, they probably will know it...I don`t think they will show it and be wrong with id plate.

yeah, i would like to be able to confirm it is tochka by that plate.
size-wise, it seems like a match. i made a mistake of not watching the entire video earlier (bandwidth problems, unfortunately). i have a table next to me that i know is exactly 1m long, so yeah, tochka, having a 0.65m diameter, would look like that.

but it's still a little scrap of metal for such a missile. the blast hardly matches anything conventional tochka can handle... and that's what smells for me.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

I`m on the same boat as you about the blast being really huge too.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

unfortunately, it's not an identification plate. otkp/3akp simply means open/closed or something like that.
yeah, i was hoping it's some GRAU designation, but no luck.

If there was no chemical plant there then the device to deliver that size of explosion was massive. Good link to the reporter crawling around the crater, which shows it to be around 30 feet deep. It also doesn't show any wreckage of a chemical factory, but possibly the rebels wouldn't allow filming in that direction.

I like the chemical factory being hit theory, that's what the Rebels say happened...just didn't see any evidence of it. The bits of Tonhka's they display may have been fired all together to hit that chemical plant. But no plant in the pictures.

If Ukraine has a bigger missile system and used it then I'm sure the Rebels would be screaming about it to get bigger weapons from Putin. If it was a NATO weapon they'd scream about that too. If it was nuclear we wouldn't be seeing the reporters crawling around the crater.

I guess it's what the Rebels say it was.

can any ATS members get info or data about the Seismology reading from a nearby monitor, likely at a Ukraine University, of that late night 22:46+ pm blast...
A 30' diameter crater is not a standard off-the-rack device that can easily be delivered or detonated with precision by a squad or a missile with a +40 meter accuracy designed in Its guidance system

that type of info (seismic graphs=printouts) might better identify the impact and likely blast perimeters (was it a artillery shell or Drone delivered explosive or atomic bomb?)

the 'rebels' that have multi-kiloton-destructive-devices would quickly escalate the present situation...
see:

February 10, 2015

Moscow Times Warns Of 'Global Escalation' Of Conflict! Russia To Declare War If US Arms Ukraine!

from: www.allnewspipeline.com...


thanks, but I 'see' non-typical explosion devices at play here

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
If there was no chemical plant there then the device to deliver that size of explosion was massive. Good link to the reporter crawling around the crater, which shows it to be around 30 feet deep. It also doesn't show any wreckage of a chemical factory, but possibly the rebels wouldn't allow filming in that direction.

I like the chemical factory being hit theory, that's what the Rebels say happened...just didn't see any evidence of it. The bits of Tonhka's they display may have been fired all together to hit that chemical plant. But no plant in the pictures.

If Ukraine has a bigger missile system and used it then I'm sure the Rebels would be screaming about it to get bigger weapons from Putin. If it was a NATO weapon they'd scream about that too. If it was nuclear we wouldn't be seeing the reporters crawling around the crater.

I guess it's what the Rebels say it was.

hell no.
if it would be a nato weapon, rebels would lie, as ordered by putin.

putin would then have an ace up his sleeve and would be able to play the west as he wants.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Your go-to tactic of turning things around must have you confused. You say I defend the US based on the actions of others, when that is exactly what you are doing in regards to Russia. I haven't said a single word in defense of the US. I said that Russia should be treated the same as the US when it comes to intervention.

I know you're not trying to understand anything or reach any truth, so I won't waste time on convincing you of anything. My posts are aimed at the readers without an agenda who see the world clearly.

To such people, Russia's actions, and intentions, are transparent.

originally posted by: victor7
Because US pokes its nose in lots of nations affairs, near and far. Russia only minds its business in its neighborhood and mostly to the intrusive attempts by the US ex: Georgia and now Ukraine.

Riiiight...

Next are you going to tell me Russia only sends spies to ex-Soviet states, and never had any intention of expanding its influence into western Europe?

originally posted by: victor7
Btw, Obama has given the ULTIMATUM to Putin.

If there is war, it will be because Putin and his cronies engineered it.

I fnd it hard to believe, with all your pride in mother Russia, that you think Putin is frightened by an empty threat from our pushover President.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

If there is war, it will be because Putin and his cronies engineered it.

If there is war, it will be because US Foreign Policy needs some "serious attitude correction". Since 1991, it has totally flown off the handle and started to take things for granted.