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WAR: General: This is Not Wal Mart - Supplying Armored Vehicles To Iraq Will Take Time

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posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:08 AM
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Stating that they were not Wal Mart, Pentagon officials stated that it will take time to get over 4 billion dollars in armored vehicles tot he troops in Iraq. The further rejected criticism indicating that the armor shortage was the result of poor planning. By March officials indicated, almost 89 percent of the HUMVEES should have full armor with the remaining vehicles completed by summer.

 



story.news.yahoo.com
WASHINGTON - Iraqi insurgents are growing more effective and it will take time to get U.S. troops the $4 billion in armor they need for protection, defense officials said Wednesday. "This is not Wal-Mart," one general said.

Officials rejected growing criticism that armor shortages in Iraq reflect poor war planning, and they said they've been working as fast as possible to give troops what they need.

At a Pentagon news conference, Army officials declined to say how much has already been spent armoring vehicles for the campaign. But they said that by the end of the next six to eight months, they will have spent $4.1 billion to try to make sure vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan have full armor either manufactured that way or with armor added.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


U.S. forces have come under increasing attack from the insurgency in Iraq. The insurgents tactics as well as the weapons they employ have been very difficult to counter. However, why this was not anticipated or planned for is beyond me. Either way, Rumsfield has got to go. The time has past and even if the solider who asked the pointed armor question last week was set up to do so or not, its time for a change at the DOD.




posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 06:01 AM
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I could'nt agree more..;(He Must GO!)..4billion$,that's alot of money this democracy is costing you guys the taxe payers...

I don't just think that He only needs to GO,but that the whole thing should be re'evaluated..This just can't go on for ever...I doupt very much that Iraq will be Freed befor the summer..Where are the British on this???..

Do you think that this War on 'Terror' will come to an end befor another U.S.election??..Could'nt that sum of money be used more objectively to acchieving peace in the 'Whole Region'?....



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 06:15 AM
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GW and Rummy inherited a decimated military gutted by Clinton. Since 911 the admin has put defense contactors in high gear. In the last few months "armored" hummers have gone from less than 2000 "incountry" to 8,000 "incountry". IF any of you military "psychics" and "geniuses" foresaw the "terrorist" tactics then show me the "posts". A hummer is basically a jeep on "steroids". Now it is supposed to be an APV? This administration has take WAR to two countries, beat the hell out of them, liberated tens of millions of people in 3 years. Get some perspective!!!

Link to Hummer data

globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 16-12-2004 by DrHoracid]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 06:47 AM
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Maybe should ask MTV to pimp their APV rides

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 08:17 AM
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"This isn't Walmart!"


Yeah, sure! I bet Walmart has better managers and take better care of their staff! Even after one year since the invasion of Iraq they still haven't provided adequete equipment to the marines?? This is disgracefull!! We spend the highest on our military than any other country out there and still come up with these small time militia problems of shortage?
Rumsfeld knows he has to go and so do the American people. Rumsfeld can go be stupid somewhere else

As Rumsfeld says,

"If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly."

What more can you expect from a guy who talks like a hillbilly??

By contending with his foolishness we are endangering our soldiers everyday!



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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Maybe should ask MTV to pimp their APV rides


I'm just picturing a Hummer with flames on the side, lowered, a kick ass sound system, chromed guns, etc. hehe...



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 08:23 AM
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OK IAF101 what in you many years of military background would you do better? Be specifc, include logistics, manufacturing capacity, delivery times dates, shipping. No tell me how large a roadside bomb these "hard" vehicles will now survive. Let me know the overpressure of the device you are planning for. Do you understand any of these terms?



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
IF any of you military "psychics" and "geniuses" foresaw the "terrorist" tactics then show me the "posts". A hummer is basically a jeep on "steroids". Now it is supposed to be an APV? Get some perspective!!!
Link to Hummer data

globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 16-12-2004 by DrHoracid]


I said something similar when this issue first broke and got flamed Dr, hope you put on your flame retradent suit first.

What I want to know is where are all those Bible Codes and predictions from Nostrodomis (sp)?

Amazing how in WWII our fathers and grandfathers never complained because they had no Jeeps, did they? There were none imagine that.

There were no steath bombers, no laser bombs, our bombers were not the best and our first tanks were not well amored either.

Those of you jumping on the whining wagon need to get a perspective on life.




posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Rumsfeld bungled and mismanaged this occupation so poorly that, he should be getting his Presidential Medal of Freedom in no time!



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Famous movie "To Hell and back". Tank commander complains about only having 8" of armor... Gi says"How much armor is in this GI shirt?" Get the point?



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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I dont particually see how upgrading the armor on these humvee's would do much difference, other than making the resistance put a few extra pounds of comp.B or similar into the bomb.

Even the M1 Abram tanks cannot withstand the current roadside attacks.

M1 Abram destroyed.

It might protect the people inside a little more against things like RPG's though.

Also in reply to shots, yes in WWII both sides had jeeps, although they were very exposed and open. Is that what you were stating?

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Johnny Redburn]


ts2

posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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When Rumsfeld says "We are getting armor to the troops as fast as we can."
He apparently has not talked to the people who build them. Both AM General
( The maker ) and O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt ( They put the armor on ) said
they could build more, faster. All they need is to be asked.

www.daytondailynews.com...

And another solder dies



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
I dont particually see how upgrading the armor on these humvee's would do much difference, other than making the resistance put a few extra pounds of comp.B or similar into the bomb.

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Johnny Redburn]


You have to remember as well, that the majority of the soldiers don't have body armor as well. When I was there, only the MP's and Infantry were getting the kevlar body armor, the ones that stop bullets. Everybody else got a flak jacket that only stopped, uh, flak. The National Guard and Reserves? Holy carp! They didn't even have matching uniforms (desert pants, green top, etc) much less any type of body armor!

When we were staging in Kuwait during the initial invasion, with lined our HUMVEE's with sandbags, trying to get some kind of protection. Our main concern was IED's.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Famous movie "To Hell and back". Tank commander complains about only having 8" of armor... Gi says"How much armor is in this GI shirt?" Get the point?


Boy do I ever.

What I want to know is just what kind of military is this country training? I wonder what they would have wanted had they been on the beaches of Normandy?



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
OK IAF101 what in you many years of military background would you do better? Be specifc, include logistics, manufacturing capacity, delivery times dates, shipping. No tell me how large a roadside bomb these "hard" vehicles will now survive. Let me know the overpressure of the device you are planning for. Do you understand any of these terms?

Hey Doc,
If one just has a cursory look at what is going on in Iraq one could easily see the pight of our marines- who refuse to fight and those who fight knowing they could be safer if their country's leaders was more competent to provide better and fastrer access to resources.
As you are ignorant on many basic flaws in our current situation in Iraq i will enlighten you:
The major difficulty with logistics in Iraq are not that things don't reach the feild but how the services move the supplies after they had arrived in the feild. Also the present system that TRANSCOM has- the GTN is too heavily burdened and this is also the weakest link in the entire operation, if the GTN were to fail then the whole theater of operations would come to a standstill. Also the plastic radio frequency identification labels(tags) that are very helpfull in shipping stuuf to the middle east need to be sent further into the feild. This would help TRANSCOM to effectively make sure that the front lines get what is required .
www.govexec.com...
I don't want to deviate any further from the topic . If you want to discuss this more start a thread!

IAF



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:42 AM
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In order to up-armor the entire fleet of military vechicles you need the funds to do so. Like any other business you have a budject to follow. I believe the Army was not funded to make this happen. I say this because the manufactures who make these vechicle i.e. the "hummer" were never asked to increase production. They were not asked because the Army did not have the resources to pay for this increase in production.
Now they have been given the necessary funds to make this happen but inorder to pay for this funding something else will either be slashed or eliminated entirely.
I personally have seen this happen while I served in the military. Ask the soliders how many of them have the proper cold weather gear or ammunition for there weapons. Talk to the Air Force people who worked on KC-135s about plywood sheets they used in there tankers to convert them to transports.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Also in reply to shots, yes in WWII both sides had jeeps, although they were very exposed and open. Is that what you were stating?

It is my understanding the jeep was one of the first New vehicles that came about as a result of WWII. I am not talking after war was declared on the US, I am talking pre WWII for the US. I am not positive if it was asked for by our military or Britian in 1939 and developed in 1940. That is what I meant.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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Did anyone think they were wal-mart? I didn't but I did expect better planning.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by TheBigD
Did anyone think they were wal-mart? I didn't but I did expect better planning.


D can you answer this question as Dr. asked IAF101?


OK IAF101 what in you many years of military background would you do better? Be specifc.


Oh and why not start with details on your military background?



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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I think the reason that Clinton was able to disassemble the Military
was because he is a diplomatic individual something that GW
and Rumsfeld know nothing about. Diplomacy is bullet proof
as long as you know how to compromise which our current
commander in chief does not know how to do.

(your either with us or against us-- what a joke)

geo



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