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WAR: General: This is Not Wal Mart - Supplying Armored Vehicles To Iraq Will Take Time

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posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by geocom
I think the reason that Clinton was able to disassemble the Military
was because he is a diplomatic individual.
geo



Oh so cutting off all funds for the military now makes you diplomatic?

Interesting concept but that will not float. It is a known fact that democrats always vote to under cut military funding.




posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by shots



Oh so cutting off all funds for the military now makes you diplomatic?



I never said that I was diplomatic or that I was a Democrat.
Simply an observation , based on the fact that Clinton had more
meetings with Officials of other countries in his first 4 years than Bush
will have in 8 at his current rate and talking to others to try and reach an agreement is what makes you diplomatic, also you never heard Clinton
giving ultimatums to other countries and pissing off the rest of the world.
at some point the rest of the world is going to get sick of this with us or
against us strategy and say fine , we are in fact against you now what
are you going to do attack us all?

I do however agree that it is undeniable tha tthe Dem's always vote
against MIL spending

geo



[edit on 12/16/2004 by geocom]

[edit on 12/16/2004 by geocom]

[edit on 12/16/2004 by geocom]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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From the Doc:

"Bull Pucky

GW and Rummy inherited a decimated military gutted by Clinton. Since 911 the admin has put defense contactors in high gear. In the last few months "armored" hummers have gone from less than 2000 "incountry" to 8,000 "incountry". IF any of you military "psychics" and "geniuses" foresaw the "terrorist" tactics then show me the "posts". A hummer is basically a jeep on "steroids". Now it is supposed to be an APV? This administration has take WAR to two countries, beat the hell out of them, liberated tens of millions of people in 3 years. Get some perspective!!!"

My Response:
The liberation hasn't happened, the people they liberated are killing our boys. Secondly, if anyone in this administration had an ounce of brains, they would have prepared for this war and what it was going to bring about. You are right, the military was decimated by Clinton, but Rumsfield and his buddies should have thought about what might happen after they invaded instead of invading and then trying to figure it out. BTW, my grandfather, former VC of S USAF, now deceased once told me and my father echoed exactly the same thing at the time, that Rumsfield was a blow hard idiot and that the only difference between him and McNamara was the spelling of his name.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:14 AM
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What most of the people on this thread don't understand is that the Hummer wasn't designed as an APC - it can't function as an APC -simple as that !
The USMC has APC's that can be used and also has the M2A3 and the M3A3 Bradley's to do precisely what the HMMWV's are doing at present - they are much safer and also have more fire power than a HMMWV can provide.
For the Ignorant out there the High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) is not just a HUMMER, it is just a replacement for the jeep(M151) that was used till about the 80's. Because it was a battle field vehicle it was necessarily upgraded to provide better fire power (with the introduction of the TOW, etc) Over the years it has virtually taken over the role of the IFV's and CFV's. I think this is because it was easier to upgrade an already widely available system to meet the requirements half way than design a completely new design - cost effective .
www.fas.org...
www.fas.org...
Now that the marines are facing problems with the HMMWV the DOD is trying to upgrade them yet again in a desperate effort to quell public outrage at home, yet another pathetic tactic to ward off the popular public opinion of incompetence! Why don't they start deploying more M2A3's in the area than repairing the HMMWV's as even after they are repaired they will still be "barely" safe. The marines themselves have to ask Rumsfeld these questions on TV , that is the present state of affairs that a soldier who is fighting for his country cannot get the best his country can offer because of mismanagement and incompetence of his superiors. No wonder the marines are moving the courts over the extension of their service period !!
If we cannot provide the Best we can - no matter what the nature of combat is- then we have no right to send our troops to IRAQ to fight and God forbid -DIE due to the complacency of a few incompetent people.
To all those Screeming Republicans- I too am a Republican but above all I am an AMERICAN and cannot stand to see our troops put in harms way because of the DODs inadequacies!



[edit on 16-12-2004 by IAF101]

[edit on 16-12-2004 by IAF101]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:43 AM
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shote said:

Amazing how in WWII our fathers and grandfathers never complained because they had no Jeeps, did they? There were none imagine that.

Check your history books. Lots of complaints. Also, Jeeps were the best there was for a good while.

The best available should always be provided. Death is death to some grunt or groundpounder because a politician talked instead of acted.

I still laugh at the 'it's Clinton's fault' junk some of you Americans spew.

Does King George have to be in office 20 years before he is finally responsible?

America went a 'sand dune too far' this time and just can't seem to pull itself together. Sad for the troops- probably the best army in the history of the world. Management is lacking.

The troops are superb.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 11:54 AM
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Thats right. Its not Walmart. Walmart is better organized and they don't jump into anything without a well thought out plan. So I agree. This operation cannot be confused with Walmart.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 01:13 PM
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I appologize for earlier flames. But the question remains the same. Putting everyone in M1A1's or APV's is just silly. Heavy hummers have fuel issues and then obviously range and speed issues. Logistics have always been an issue in every war. This is not a "Blackhawk Down" issue. Rummy is sending everything the in theater commanders ask for. There is no lack of resources. There is a problem with ROE. Rummy is getting all Jag morons out of the middle and too many in the pentagon don't like it. WWII and Vietnam era troop strength thinking is stupid. McCain is a moron, a coward, and a traitor.

Colorado Boy......I could give a @##$@ what your USAF opinion is about Rummy. He was smarter 30 years ago and he's smarter now.

Fast, light, quickly deployable military makes sense. The British tried MASS troops and got beat as I recall. Seems like the Japanese tried it too. Opps?



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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So we are making 2 mistakes I guess as we are not
light and fast I mean it took three weeks to get everything
ready to invade fallujah, and in case no one has noticed we have
a LOT of troops in Iraq, make that three mistakes
we kept Rumsfeld.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by geocom
So we are making 2 mistakes I guess as we are not
light and fast I mean it took three weeks to get everything
ready to invade fallujah, and in case no one has noticed we have
a LOT of troops in Iraq, make that three mistakes
we kept Rumsfeld.


OK, for all you "challenged". Three weeks to mount an offensive is very, very fast. I am tired of wasteing fingertips here. All you military genuis know everything. I respect your right to an opinion even if it is silly.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

OK, for all you "challenged". Three weeks to mount an offensive is very, very fast. I am tired of wasteing fingertips here. All you military genuis know everything. I respect your right to an opinion even if it is silly.


Hey Dr, all these so called experts think this is tjhe jet age don't ya know.

They think it all can happen by just the snap of someones finger and that is not the way it works, never did, never will.

I am still waiting for some input from any of them as to what they would have done? This dead silence is killing me.

Guess they are not all as smart as they think. I have yet to see one of their own plans wonder why



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
OK, for all you "challenged". Three weeks to mount an offensive is very, very fast. I am tired of wasteing fingertips here. All you military genuis know everything. I respect your right to an opinion even if it is silly.


Three weeks? I don't know where you were stationed, but at Ft. Bragg we were getting ready at least a year before, when Bush started making up reasons to invade. In fact, it was really frustrating, because at least six-months before the invasion, we were on stand by. We couldn't be more than an hour away from the base. No one could go home for Christmas. The not knowing when we were leaving was the worst part. A year later, we couldn't wait to leave just to get it over with!



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 03:05 PM
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I never claimed to be an expert of any kind!
I am not sure that I have run across any Military
experts at ATS if I have then I would like to see
credentials.

My point with fallujah is that all arms and
staff were already in theater and it took
three weeks to get it together,

all other things aside I do support the troops
I think the leadership (Rumsfeld) needs a little work
but I am very thankfull of all the work
the soldiers over there have done
that does not mean I support this war.



[edit on 12/16/2004 by geocom]



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