Would a space-faring civilization have some sort of space police force similar to the Jedi?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Eunuchorn

not to freak you out: it's a cautionary tale, come and join the hive mind.

If my world view was suddenly thrust onto every other human, our species would assuredly cease to function

Thank god for honesty...I think most of us know this to be true.

We're all right all the time in our minds, but on a large scale we are all wrong all the time.

Our diverse nature brings us together and causes order out of the chaos.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: Peeple

I want to live in a world without human nature.

To quote Kandinsky:
As long as any complex society includes pride, spite and envy, they'll have crimes.

Are these solely human traits or traits of all living things?

All known earth life with any measure of intelligence shows these traits.

Especially in the higher mamilian life forms.

This is why I cannot accept that alien life that is advanced would show absolute peace.

All known life strives, even at the microbial level to elevate itself above other life.

To bend it to its will for its purposes.

Viruses are an absolute example of this.

As they rewrite your very cellular DNA to suit their ends.

As far as we know all life everywhere will follow this logical pattern of my/our advantage at your loss.

a reply to: infinityorder

there is a way of society observed amongst many others, wolves, horses, etc.:
Hierarchy of necessarity.
Which means basically, there is no such thing as the old and weak alpha-specimen, but depending on the threat, task, the one with the biggest chance to succeed calls the shots. That's why they all get food, depending on their invested energy.

Now if we could apply that to humans, without all the bitching and whining, would be super. Like the garbage man who is happy being good at his job, if there just wasn't this lazy, spoiled brat looking down on him, while doing and contributing exactly nothing to the common god...

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: infinityorder

there is a way of society observed amongst many others, wolves, horses, etc.:
Hierarchy of necessarity.
Which means basically, there is no such thing as the old and weak alpha-specimen, but depending on the threat, task, the one with the biggest chance to succeed calls the shots. That's why they all get food, depending on their invested energy.

Now if we could apply that to humans, without all the bitching and whining, would be super. Like the garbage man who is happy being good at his job, if there just wasn't this lazy, spoiled brat looking down on him, while doing and contributing exactly nothing to the common god...

Stop it right now....you are speaking words that make sense for everyone.

The spoiled rich know their workers did all the work that made all the money in their bank accounts, but " they deserve it" because they invested their inherited wealth into the company.

The workers investment of time labor and energy is nothing compared to their monetary investment....I meant " risk".... Of not getting multiple returns on their money....oh wait if the company fails the tax payers will bail them out....NVM.

Only the workers are contributing to the common good, everyone at the top could die and be replaced by a few IT and logistics folks and and the cycle would work just fine.

Sad story of the human race.

At this pace, this conversation will be relevant when we reach the stars 800,000,000 million years from now.

Klaatu dada vi nicta norto ae bradom torvi sa eiomen Gort barada.

So sorry, 2015 English.

Yo, you dogs ever F***up, Gort and hes robot Police buddies, will come and slap you ass, dig it? Biaches!!

originally posted by: gort51
Klaatu dada vi nicta norto ae bradom torvi sa eiomen Gort barada.

So sorry, 2015 English.

Yo, you dogs ever F***up, Gort and hes robot Police buddies, will come and slap you ass, dig it? Biaches!!

Wtf??!!

Was that Latin I detected?

a reply to: infinityorder

No, that was Klaatorian dialect, from a planet millions of miles from your own.

Sorry, had a scratchy throat.... so sounded a little like Latin, more Gortarius really.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: infinityorder

I can't link from my phone..well I can it is just a pain in the are and I am too lazy.

You dropped the reference to Carl Sagan without the link, it's YOUR responsibility not mine to google it.

Just think, if you put as much effort into a Google search as you did in demanding he provide one and explaining why you refuse to find it yourself, you'd have already found it!

I get your point, but I've always thought comments like that were a rather lazy way of debating since by and large I can find something on my own quicker than it takes to demand somebody else do it and them provide it to me.

Oh well. Principles and such, I guess.

IF you dropped a supposed quote of Carl Sagan which I know is incorrect it is NOT my reponsibility to look for the quote you allege he said.

Principles work both ways and the burden of proof is one the one who brought the quote to the table.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: JadeStar

It'll be cool if your certainties are realised in the distant future.

On the other hand, can we really rule out pride, spite and ego as significant drivers of social evolution? These are factors that are taken seriously in Evolutionary game theory.. They offer reasons and scenarios why irrational actors make decisions that aren't predicated on the need for resources.

In your Utopian, post-Scarcity future will the populations cease being attracted to the sexual partners of others? Will entities be above feeling jealous of those who are better-looking? And will those blessed with good looks and superior intellects defer from poking fun at those who are less intelligent or downright ugly?

These types of social interactions aren't entirely dictated by a need for resources. Each example has been a factor in violence, murder and petty theft.

As long as any complex society includes pride, spite and envy, they'll have crimes.

Such ideas will be quaint as we will probably be post-human by then.

a reply to: JadeStar

Such ideas will be quaint as we will probably be post-human by then.

Okay. In the future, all technological 'space-faring civilisations' will be post-scarcity, 'post-human' and there'll be no irrational actions or conflict whatsoever to justify laws.

How idealistic.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: JadeStar

Such ideas will be quaint as we will probably be post-human by then.

Okay. In the future, all technological 'space-faring civilisations' will be post-scarcity, 'post-human' and there'll be no irrational actions or conflict whatsoever to justify laws.

How idealistic.

Yes. And nothing illogical will ever happen, either.

a reply to: JadeStar

Ahhh okay. So instead of saying you know it to be an incorrect quote, we do the "source that now" song and dance.

How very quaint and human

My fave universal mercenary police force...go Judoon!

A brief blurb from a story I wrote some time ago :

Bio-Chip:

The only thing I had to do to further my education was get the bio-chip embedded (up my nose no less) between the frontal lobes of my brain. I could hear the bones crack/break and everything upon insertion. I figured they could beam the damn thing in there or something but “NO” it is not the way it is done.

So I had an on and off nose bleed for a few days, but that was all there was to it.. Well, OK, a few mild headaches while the chip thing took root and made connections to god knows where in my body !

Something I found out later about the Bio-Chips (and the newborn/hatched/ grown/ children of the USSB) ... The Chips will not be installed until certain ages of the newborn’s are reached for all the different species. They want the offspring to develop independent personalities before being connected. The more they learn, the more they bring to the collective in a weird emotional sort of way.

I guess you could call it a right of passage from childhood into adulthood.

“Man I have seen some earth kids that should have been chipped by the age of two... It would have saved everyone allot of trouble if they had, but that is just the way they do things at USSB”. Humans who would travel into the Bulk would be chipped at age 20 with a fully operational chip. If the chip's function was only as a tracking device; then any age was OK and the chip could be placed just about any unobtrusive place under the skin of a body.

My fully functional chip was also a tracker chip but it too allowed me to learn telepathically more efficiently. Once in residence (my brain !) it could also be accessed for information and even spoken languages that I could find useful if the need arose. The whole chip thing worked off my own nervous system's weak electrical impulses.

I must admit this is the only way to learn..

The story revolves around around USSB that is in 333 billion Galaxies and is 1.28 billion years in the making and earth discovering Bulk travel. Yep you read that correct and yes it is fiction.

The multidimensional popping in and out that is reported with UFOs is actually explained in a way that at least has some basis of science if 'M' theory is correct.

I always just thought if UFOs did exist and as they disappeared they just moved faster than the human eye could track. However, there are many reports of flash, and they are there and flash, they are gone.. Maybe all B.S. but some of this B.S. repeats from all over the world with eye witness reports.

Actually it only takes one sighting to be true and then all the arguments against E.T.s existence is for naught.

The story is based on "M" theory and the presence of Banes and their effect on everything in the multiverse. Where these Banes exist is called the Bulk Zone.. The Bulk Zone permits travel without FTL or even warp drive. Our closest star at 25 trillion miles away would take about an hour to arrive doing a speed you would get a ticket on most highways for going to slow in you car. That is at only 1% penetration of the Bulk Zone.

CERN may verify some of this when they reach 21 TEV. If not then they will try to generate more power as they try and crack quarks; just to see what is inside these fundamental particles..

The are no wars with USSB as everyone is telepathic after receiving the Bio-Chip... Many of the sentient life forms were already telepathic even before the chip.

There is a purpose for all this and maybe one day I will post the story or finish it past Act 1... Someone like Jadestar might appreciate some of the 'M' theory stuff or one of our long time posters called "The Gut" for some of the inter-dimensional shenanigans.. But it is more an exercise for my own edification.

So in my fictional universe there is no need for a police force... That does not mean in the past there were those who broke the rules and were punished.. In this story the little Greys (they are not sentient) but connected to the hive mind of USSB do all the grunt work while the sentient life forms have many different life styles and missions.

Fictional story... But... Even in our primitive endeavors there are those who postulate the ability of a mind chip interface.. Give a race of sentients a million or even a billion year head start and IMO it is a logical evolution. There are Red Dwarf stars that were burning in their main sequence for billions of years before this arm of the Milky Way (where the earth exist) was even formed. The Dwarfs will still be burning long after our sun goes into its' earth eating red giant phase.

I would join the USSB tomorrow if offered the chance........ unfortunately not likely except in my mind.
OK enough !

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: JadeStar

Such ideas will be quaint as we will probably be post-human by then.

Okay. In the future, all technological 'space-faring civilisations' will be post-scarcity, 'post-human' and there'll be no irrational actions or conflict whatsoever to justify laws.



How idealistic.

I think some factions would eventually rebel, its just the nature of things. . . . .

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I've had this argument with JadeStar myself, in a couple of other threads.

I believe she is studying to be an exobiologist. I hope that, by the time she completes her training, some objects will have been discovered for her and other exobiologists to study.

Until this happens, exobiology is a division of philosophy, not a branch of the sciences. We can debate hypotheses, but we cannot test them in any way. The debate over them is a philosophical debate.

I agree with those who believe that close contact with an alien civilization is almost certain to do us harm and could even destroy us. I could point to the depressing record of cultural interactions between technologically unequal peoples here on Earth, but JadeStar has already ruled out extrapolation from history on the grounds that aliens are Not Like Us

But I don't need to appeal to history. I need only assume — as you have correctly done — that intelligent beings will be self-interested beings, however unlike us they are in other ways. Inevitably, at some point, their interests and ours will clash. At that point, the share price of Humanity, Inc. will be in the basement.

There are only two ways in which I can conceive of our species surviving an encounter with a superior alien culture: as pets or as parasites. Which would you rather be?

I think exobiologists should be encouraged. We'll need them to help us find the enemy's weaknesses.

a reply to: infinityorder

All known earth life with any measure of intelligence shows these traits.

Especially in the higher mamilian life forms.

This is why I cannot accept that alien life that is advanced would show absolute peace.

All known life strives, even at the microbial level to elevate itself above other life.

To bend it to its will for its purposes.

Viruses are an absolute example of this.

As they rewrite your very cellular DNA to suit their ends.

As far as we know all life everywhere will follow this logical pattern of my/our advantage at your loss.

I don't normally quote whole posts but there you have it. I would make precisely the same argument.

If there's intelligent life out there, I find it hard to imagine that the principal driver of its evolution wasn't natural selection. Which means the same imperative shared by all living things known to us will be ingrained in its nature as it is in ours: play to win, or die without posterity.

It's a depressing thought, but that shouldn't stop us from thinking it. It is, at the very least, a possibility to be taken into account when considering our future dealings with any interstellar expeditions that may come calling. By the way, I agree with you about Kandinsky's post.

originally posted by: 727Sky
A brief blurb from a story I wrote some time ago :

Bio-Chip:

The only thing I had to do to further my education was get the bio-chip embedded (up my nose no less) between the frontal lobes of my brain. I could hear the bones crack/break and everything upon insertion. I figured they could beam the damn thing in there or something but “NO” it is not the way it is done.

So I had an on and off nose bleed for a few days, but that was all there was to it.. Well, OK, a few mild headaches while the chip thing took root and made connections to god knows where in my body !

Something I found out later about the Bio-Chips (and the newborn/hatched/ grown/ children of the USSB) ... The Chips will not be installed until certain ages of the newborn’s are reached for all the different species. They want the offspring to develop independent personalities before being connected. The more they learn, the more they bring to the collective in a weird emotional sort of way.

I guess you could call it a right of passage from childhood into adulthood.

“Man I have seen some earth kids that should have been chipped by the age of two... It would have saved everyone allot of trouble if they had, but that is just the way they do things at USSB”. Humans who would travel into the Bulk would be chipped at age 20 with a fully operational chip. If the chip's function was only as a tracking device; then any age was OK and the chip could be placed just about any unobtrusive place under the skin of a body.

My fully functional chip was also a tracker chip but it too allowed me to learn telepathically more efficiently. Once in residence (my brain !) it could also be accessed for information and even spoken languages that I could find useful if the need arose. The whole chip thing worked off my own nervous system's weak electrical impulses.

I must admit this is the only way to learn..

The story revolves around around USSB that is in 333 billion Galaxies and is 1.28 billion years in the making and earth discovering Bulk travel. Yep you read that correct and yes it is fiction.

The multidimensional popping in and out that is reported with UFOs is actually explained in a way that at least has some basis of science if 'M' theory is correct.

I always just thought if UFOs did exist and as they disappeared they just moved faster than the human eye could track. However, there are many reports of flash, and they are there and flash, they are gone.. Maybe all B.S. but some of this B.S. repeats from all over the world with eye witness reports.

Actually it only takes one sighting to be true and then all the arguments against E.T.s existence is for naught.

The story is based on "M" theory and the presence of Banes and their effect on everything in the multiverse. Where these Banes exist is called the Bulk Zone.. The Bulk Zone permits travel without FTL or even warp drive. Our closest star at 25 trillion miles away would take about an hour to arrive doing a speed you would get a ticket on most highways for going to slow in you car. That is at only 1% penetration of the Bulk Zone.

CERN may verify some of this when they reach 21 TEV. If not then they will try to generate more power as they try and crack quarks; just to see what is inside these fundamental particles..

The are no wars with USSB as everyone is telepathic after receiving the Bio-Chip... Many of the sentient life forms were already telepathic even before the chip.

There is a purpose for all this and maybe one day I will post the story or finish it past Act 1... Someone like Jadestar might appreciate some of the 'M' theory stuff or one of our long time posters called "The Gut" for some of the inter-dimensional shenanigans.. But it is more an exercise for my own edification.

So in my fictional universe there is no need for a police force... That does not mean in the past there were those who broke the rules and were punished.. In this story the little Greys (they are not sentient) but connected to the hive mind of USSB do all the grunt work while the sentient life forms have many different life styles and missions.

Fictional story... But... Even in our primitive endeavors there are those who postulate the ability of a mind chip interface.. Give a race of sentients a million or even a billion year head start and IMO it is a logical evolution. There are Red Dwarf stars that were burning in their main sequence for billions of years before this arm of the Milky Way (where the earth exist) was even formed. The Dwarfs will still be burning long after our sun goes into its' earth eating red giant phase.

I would join the USSB tomorrow if offered the chance........ unfortunately not likely except in my mind.
OK enough !

Just freaking wow!!!!!!!

Plz finish this and im me the name!!!!!!

I will buy it hard back for top dollar, it sounds fascinating.

Mtheory is bs.....

All it takes to make m theory work is adding in an extra dimension every time something doesn't add up, ie it is bs.

Sucks but it is true.

When CERN hits 21 Terra electron volts....my god, its power is described as a fully loading aircraft carrier running aground at 30 knots.

Thinking about making a proton stream collide at that level of power is staggering.

CERN is so badass...I always drool while reading their latest findings.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: infinityorder

All known earth life with any measure of intelligence shows these traits.

Especially in the higher mamilian life forms.

This is why I cannot accept that alien life that is advanced would show absolute peace.

All known life strives, even at the microbial level to elevate itself above other life.

To bend it to its will for its purposes.

Viruses are an absolute example of this.

As they rewrite your very cellular DNA to suit their ends.

As far as we know all life everywhere will follow this logical pattern of my/our advantage at your loss.

I don't normally quote whole posts but there you have it. I would make precisely the same argument.

If there's intelligent life out there, I find it hard to imagine that the principal driver of its evolution wasn't natural selection. Which means the same imperative shared by all living things known to us will be ingrained in its nature as it is in ours: play to win, or die without posterity.

It's a depressing thought, but that shouldn't stop us from thinking it. It is, at the very least, a possibility to be taken into account when considering our future dealings with any interstellar expeditions that may come calling. By the way, I agree with you about Kandinsky's post.

I don't see how one can arrive with scientific endeavor at any other option.

We have plenty of species of life to observe, for study.

Why would technology magically change the very nature of life.

It has changed our nature in the least.

We have much more easier than the animals, why would having more even easier change a thing.

The evidence says it won't.

Great post.

a reply to: JadeStar

Jade....

You are not employing the scientific method.

There is absolutely no evidence at all period for your assertions.

There is a vast amount of evidence against it though.

You don't approach science with a jaded perspective.

One thinks x will happen and then makes an experiment.

While observing if x occurs.

They don't ignore all the data that shows y will is and does happen because they think x should occur.

This is what you are doing.

Ignoring all evidence of evolution and the fundamental purpose of life.

Life us brutal, this weeds out the weak, advancing the species.

Without this, the weak persist, they degrade the gene pool, they corrupt the very meaning of life.

Until there are so many weak in a species it dies off, or is destroyed by a superior species.

If as you claim advancement equated peacefulness, seeing as we are factors more advanced than any animal species, we would be seeing signs of this.

Yet we are one of if not the most violent species ever observed.

The evidence does not support your wanted outcome, sorry....suck it up, adjust your world view, create a better more likely to be accurate hypothesis, continue adjusting with the evidence as it us acquired until you arrive at what at present with present data appears to be true.