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Would a space-faring civilization have some sort of space police force similar to the Jedi?

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posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JadeStar

Meh. I think you're putting too much stock in to what is an unknown. You're assuming species will all have the "no, no, you go first" mentality.

I don't.


I agree, so do most of the top thinkers.

Carl Sagan being one of the most vocal for the last years of his life.

There is no need to go all " what if" on the subject.

Let's look at real evidence we have here.

In nature which species excels, the nice calm species or the aggressive violent one?

Even in our culture, who are the very tippidy top?

The aggressive selfish types or the nice guys?

Sure a few nice guys make it, but not often.

Even in plant species, the most aggressive wins out, hence invasive species overtaking entire areas with remorse or care for the species that it pushed out of existence.

Only liberal touchy feely types peace is the true nature of the universe.

The universe is now and always will be a violent chaotic place, where the strong survive, and the weak suffer what they must.




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: starwarsisreal

As above so below, kind of thing?

I doubt it. Greedy, lying, murderous bastards are all going into the sun.

Whats to police?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar




Read my above post. Those are games but nor really based on astrobiology. They MAKE it so those spheres of influence overlap but there is no good reason to believe they ever would in reality.

Meh, don't even know what i am saying: There are brainwaves, manipulating the qunatum energies of our surroundings, with a little tech-enhancement, everybody can become a Jedi. Unless you wait for actual Obi van Kenobi to show up, then yeah that's true, he is a fictionary character...



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JadeStar

Meh. I think you're putting too much stock in to what is an unknown. You're assuming species will all have the "no, no, you go first" mentality.

I don't.


Not at all.

I based what I said about the KNOWN universe as it stands today.

That known universe?

Full of earthlike exoplanets...

Not so full of interstellar travelling bad guys as far as we can tell...

Unless we detect some sort of massive battle taking place around another star any ideas about "space wars" are sci-fi speculation with little real logical basis to exist in reality.

100 billion or more Earthlike worlds in our galaxy.

Imagine trying to find 1000 other people (a conservative estimate of how many civilizations may exist in our Milky Way galaxy at any given time) over a distance of 100,000 light years from one side of the galaxy to the other, among 100 billion planets.

It's just not likely any two civilizations in that scenario would ever be in play for the same planet or even region of space.


edit on 6-2-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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The 'goodness' or 'badness' (terms which shouldn't even be in this discussion, as they are subjective) of an alien species that meets us, as we are now, is irrelevant.

If they have the capacity to travel between solar systems, we would hardly even register as sentient life to them.

No more than what we consider bacteria, relative to us, today.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JadeStar

Meh. I think you're putting too much stock in to what is an unknown. You're assuming species will all have the "no, no, you go first" mentality.

I don't.


I agree, so do most of the top thinkers.

Carl Sagan being one of the most vocal for the last years of his life.


IF you are going to namedrop "Carl the Sage" you need to do it with a link to what you allege he said.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: infinityorder

There is no need to go all " what if" on the subject.

Let's look at real evidence we have here.


You violated the first rule of astrobiology when speculating about aliens:

"Never look at extraterrestrial life, it's environment, it's stressors, it's motivations as simply an extension of life on Earth because it is quite likely vastly different from life on Earth and to assume it would be the same also runs the risk of missing it."
edit on 6-2-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar

"So far as we know" and "unlikely" being the key phrases.

Accepting that the likelihood of two groups fighting over one area is slim, why does that automatically mean the groups are passive and peaceful? Do they show up to a new planet and just hope whatever is down there is cool with them showing up? Somebody gets eaten by a giant plant, oh well them's the breaks? Send Zorbak's wife a fruit basket and a nice letter of condolences?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: infinityorder

There is no need to go all " what if" on the subject.

Let's look at real evidence we have here.


You violated the first rule of astrobiology when speculating about aliens:

"Never look at extraterrestrial life, it's environment, it's stressors, it's motivations as simply an extension of life on Earth because it is quite likely vastly different from life on Earth and to assume it would be the same also runs the risk of missing it."


And you are violating one of sciences founding principles.

You are assuming, and then using assumptions like they are facts.

We have only the evidence available to us to work with.

I can't link from my phone..well I can it is just a pain in the are and I am too lazy.

You have Google I trust?

Try googling it, it was years after the voyagers were already gone when he changed his mind.

He even lamented his involvement in helping put exact coordinates back to earth on the golden records.

I am very familiar with the great man Carl Sagan as well.

And would not just name drop him for the hell of it in an intellectual debate.

He said the things I attributed to him.

It was one of the reasons for my responses.

He was wise beyond his years, the world lost a truly great man when he died.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JadeStar

"So far as we know" and "unlikely" being the key phrases.


One can only intelligently speculate about reality based upon what we know to exist. Otherwise, any flight of fancy "could be real".

That's also what separates good sci-fi from bad sci-fi among hardcore sci-fi geeks like me




Accepting that the likelihood of two groups fighting over one area is slim, why does that automatically mean the groups are passive and peaceful?


Choosing not to fight does not make one group either passive or peaceful.

It would be because there would be no need to waste the resources on a war to get essentially what could be taken for nothing a lot closer to such a species.

Wars cost resources. When the calculation is that the prize is worth it then they are fought. But if there are plenty of unclaimed prizes between you and the next civilization then why would you spent more resources to bypass all of the unclaimed prizes to fight for one they have?

Logically, you wouldn't.

Now, add the layer of time.

Different civilizations will be at different states of development.

Some might have limited interstellar travel. Others might be able to go anywhere they please, and others like us would be mostly confined to our own planet.

if you divide 100 billion (a conservative estimate of how many planets like Earth there are in the galaxy) by 1,000 (the conservative estimate of how many civilizations could exist at any given point our galaxy's history) then you get:

100 million uninhabited planets per civilization.

What would be the point of bypassing most of those to fight a war with another civilization 30,000 light years away (the average distance between civilizations if there were only 1,000 or so)

Lets say instead there are a million civilizations instead of 1,000.

Then that is 100,000 uninhabited world per civilization.

Again why travel some 3,000 light years to go fight someone else over one they want when there are thousands of worlds between you and them?

There is no logical reason for interstellar battles when you run the numbers.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: infinityorder

There is no need to go all " what if" on the subject.

Let's look at real evidence we have here.


You violated the first rule of astrobiology when speculating about aliens:

"Never look at extraterrestrial life, it's environment, it's stressors, it's motivations as simply an extension of life on Earth because it is quite likely vastly different from life on Earth and to assume it would be the same also runs the risk of missing it."


And you are violating one of sciences founding principles.

You are assuming, and then using assumptions like they are facts.


Actually assumptions are made in science all the time when dealing with items of a speculative nature such as this. Ever hear the term "educated guess"?

The difference between my assumptions and yours is that I have numbers to back mine up based on observational evidence about our galaxy.

But please, list my illogical assumptions (lol)....

edit on 6-2-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar

Ahhh. Well we can all attest to the fact that nothing illogical ever happens, so I will just have to accept your position!



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar
Unless we detect some sort of massive battle taking place around another star any ideas about "space wars" are sci-fi speculation with little real logical basis to exist in reality.

It should be noted that we are currently incapable of detecting any said battles until they are long complete.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: JadeStar
Unless we detect some sort of massive battle taking place around another star any ideas about "space wars" are sci-fi speculation with little real logical basis to exist in reality.

It should be noted that we are currently incapable of detecting any said battles until they are long complete.


Not necessarily true....

Discharges of lasers would be detectable by OSETI (Optical SETI) experiments at Harvard and Berkley.

Gamma Ray weapons would be detectable in all sky surveys looking for Gamma Ray Bursters. They'd probably appear as small but intense localized sources near stars.

And the "Death Star" from Star Wars would pop right out of Kepler data if it transited it's star.

So far, no massive laser battles or Death Stars have been detected except on the silver screen....

edit on 6-2-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: JadeStar
Correct....

Hours after the fact...if it occurs at the edge of our solar system.

Decades if it occurs in our local grouping of solar systems.

Hundreds of years if it occurs in our local arm of the galaxy.

Millenia if it occurs in our galaxy, but not our part of the galaxy.

Light only travels so fast, and space is really big.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: infinityorder

I can't link from my phone..well I can it is just a pain in the are and I am too lazy.



You dropped the reference to Carl Sagan without the link, it's YOUR responsibility not mine to google it.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: starwarsisreal
Would a space-faring civilization have some sort of space police force?



Now some people argued that a space faring civilization would never be militaristic. But however, would there be a space police force of some sort?



Many films like Star Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy covers the ideas of a space police force such as the Jedi and the Nova Corps.



While it is highly unlikely according to some people that there would be a militaristic extraterrestrial civilization what about space crimes? I mean there's going to still be crimes like murder and space piracy of some sort that would happen.



Plus I'm pretty sure a space police force would be used in the event a potential civilization becomes a threat to the Universe like Earth should their military industrial complex decided to expand outwards.



Oh you mean our secret space clone army with thier superpowered leaders weilding lightsabers that shoot rapid fire laser beams at folks. Lets not forget our death star bases out there roaming around.

Now what I think we really need to discuss is what happens when the cloned space forces rebel. . . . ROFL



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I, for one, have a hard time buying in to the whole "so advanced everything is perfect and nobody is ever a jerk because utopia" idea. Then again, I'm human and being a jerk is in some people's nature. Maybe other species don't have that
problem?


The main reason people are jerks is because of competition for things, resources, breeding, etc.

Take that away and what happens?

If one can travel between the stars one has access to more resources than they'd ever need....


What if they have interstellar travel, but that travel still isn't easy -- i.e., what if they can't quickly and easily go anywhere they want.

And then, say, that their planet is a bit crowded, and they are searching for other planets that are similar to theirs in atmosphere, gravity, and radiation levels, so they could possibly colonize that planet to help ease the crowding on their own planet -- or simply as a way to expand their civilization in general.

Then, say, that in this part of the galaxy tin which their limited interstellar abilities allows them to travel, they find one (or even five) planets that are similar in atmosphere, gravity, and radiation levels to theirs -- and that planet (or one of those planets) is Earth.

Would they possibly want to colonize?



...But back to the OP's question:

I think that any civilization/society that has laws also has people who are in charge of enforcing those laws. Call them police, or call them whatever, I think there would still be people out their making sure the members of that society are following the laws/rules. I doubt an alien society would be lawless and ruleless, and I doubt every member of that society would be so "nice" as to always follow those laws.

But they wouldn't necessarily be anything like the Jedi Knights of Star Wars. The Jedi Knights were more like the Knights Templar than they were like police.


edit on 2/6/2015 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: infinityorder

I can't link from my phone..well I can it is just a pain in the are and I am too lazy.



You dropped the reference to Carl Sagan without the link, it's YOUR responsibility not mine to google it.


Just think, if you put as much effort into a Google search as you did in demanding he provide one and explaining why you refuse to find it yourself, you'd have already found it!

I get your point, but I've always thought comments like that were a rather lazy way of debating since by and large I can find something on my own quicker than it takes to demand somebody else do it and them provide it to me.

Oh well. Principles and such, I guess.
edit on 6-2-2015 by Shamrock6 because: Typo



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: starwarsisreal

Only insofar as the nature of reality is compatible with a concept like The Force. Luckily, it is.


👣




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