The push to make you vaccinate your children

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Are you saying vaccinations should be mandatory?

Good Lord, no! I'm saying the opposite. The law should never tread on an individual's rights, which include making health decisions involving their children. I am pretty much dead set against "mandatory" anything. Mandates rarely end well and almost always represent a nefarious degree of fascism. Please don't confuse that with anarchism, either. I understand we should have laws, but I find laws that involve "thou shalt not" a great deal more palatable than mandates which force a supposedly free person to do a very specific action.

a reply to: thesaneone

Weird, that's exactly how I feel about it.

The government cannot rule against religious exemption because of the Constitution, it's that simple (even though I think it's extremely stupid not to vaccinate your children). But public schools nationwide can have an absolute rule about not admitting children who aren't vaccinated, however I can see a grey area where that could be religious discrimination so... why not offer above the norm tax-breaks (homeschooling your children grants you a tax break in most states I believe) or, a voucher/partial voucher (based on income) to a religious school?

a reply to: Kali74

The way I see it is if my child has to respect children with peanut allergies then those children that have not been immunized should respect mine.

a reply to: thesaneone

Both are a threat to life, so yes. But I think there's a lot of room for compromise it doesn't have to be one way or the other.

originally posted by: ispyed
a reply to: jude11


Its called social responsibility. What right do parents have to allow their children to be vulnerable to what can be potentially dangerous diseases? What right do parents have to spread disease through their non vaccinated children?

It is socially irresponsible to not have your child vaccinated and the government quite rightly pressurises parents through the media to get vaccinated.

Although people do no like the government not getting your child vaccinated is not a very intelligent way to express your dis-satisfaction.

I believe you are missing the point.

It's not that people hate the Govt. telling us to vaccinate (although we DO) it's more that we DON'T trust them nor their Pharma pals.

Sadly the people have come to not believe much of what is claimed by any of them. AND they are fully responsible for our mistrust.

Peace

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Better yet...if your kid gives my kid some disease and my kid dies or gets some crazy life-altering side effect (ie brain damage) can we imprison you? What about eye for an eye? My kid goes down, so does yours? Is that fair? Obviously I'm taking this to the extreme but answer this: what right do you have to allow your kids to be disease carrying menaces that can infect other kids, immunized or not immunized. What if he plays with another kid who isn't immunized and they both get something?

My two cents: Anyone who doesn't immunize their children shouldn't be allowed within several miles of any other children. It doesn't matter if schools ban them. They can come into contact with each other at malls, hospitals, passing on a sidewalk, restaurants, airplanes, etc. If you want a disease-prone menace because you're afraid of a ultra remote chance of a bad side effect (instead of a fairly high chance of actually dying from measles or other diseases) then you don't belong in my country and neither do your kids. How DARE you think that you can drag your rugrats around everyone elses kid putting them at risk.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I understand your sentiments. I'm watching the news now, and schools are closing; as are day care centers in California, and it's creeping East. All the way to Texas now.

That's going to put a whole lot of people in a jam. I still think, don't have your child vaccinated if you don't want to, but don't expect everybody else to tolerate the repercussions very well, or give you a slap on the back for standing up for your "rights". They won't, and it's dangerous, so they shouldn't have to. Not in a public arena.

The real problem here is that the people today clamoring that vaccines are the devil have never lived in a time where deadly plagues were commonplace. Not all that long ago, there was no such thing as a vaccine, and things like polio, measles, tuberculosis, etc were likely to be a death sentence. When vaccines were first invented, many of these plagues vanished virtually overnight, in historical terms. People flocked to get them, and the vaccines were heralded as the most important discovery of their time.

So the consternation that has been simmering under the surface amongst the educated, the elderly who have lived with pre-vaccine plagues, and doctors has really reached a head with this outbreak of measles, a disease which should never have reappeared at all. A few bad eggs, then a few more, and a few more, and the entire population is at risk again. We've lived so long without the threat of a deadly outbreak of these now-preventable diseases, that parts of society have forgotten exactly how terrifying they can be, and how helpless we are to stop some of them if they're not cut off at the pass with vaccination.

Stupidity prevails.

originally posted by: thesaneone
Nobody should force anyone to get immunizations if they don't want them but those kids not immunized should not be allowed to enter into public schools either.

I can only speak for my district but when you enroll and check the decline vax on the immunization sheet , the school nurse comes out to let you know and sign a paper that your kids will be kept home if there's an outbreak there.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

True stupidity is parroting the same talking points without any independent thought, or even looking at the actual evidence.

Measles is not deadly in modern society because of better living condition, hygiene and access to medical care. No disease disappeared "over night" because of vaccines. Every one i have researched was in steady decline BEFORE the vaccine was introduced and there was no noticeable change in the rate of decline after the vaccine was introduced. In fact, if you look at the infection rates over the last century there was actually a temporary increase in infection rates for many diseases after the vaccine was introduced. Now compare those numbers with countries that do not vaccinate and you will see that the declines are pretty close to the same. How could the infection rates of the same diseases decline at the same rate in countries that did not vaccinate if the vaccination was the reason for the decline?

Please do everybody a favor and actually look into the information you are peddling as "fact" before you go around spreading any more fear-mongering hyperbole. Sanitation, hygiene and access to medical care are far more important factors to eradicating infectious disease.

Some of the stories by these people who were not vaccinated are pretty interesting. The comments are also eye-opening:

I was a cold war baby, and had the childhood diseases. I had measles *everywhere* including lesions under my finger and toe nails, my buttcrack and inside my mouth. My mom kept me in a dark room because of the risk of eye damage. When I had whooping cough, it turned into rheumatic fever, giving me both a heart condition and serious lung issues - I get a chest cold, it rolls into pneumonia because of the scarring in my lungs prevent them from clearing the mucus properly. I have no idea how much lifespan the heart damage has lost for me.

Vaccinate your kids. If I had my way, it would be a chargeable offense not to get your kid vaccinated barring specifically and ONLY allergy issues.

Now, I certainly don't think anyone should go to jail over not vaccinating their kids. Although I don't have permanent health issues.

I had a cousin who was brain damaged by measles as a toddler in the early 1970s and died in her teens in the mid-1980s from an embolism I believe was related. People lately seem to think measles is like the chicken pox. It's not.

Link

I don't think people today realize how good we've had it since things like measles have been pretty much eradicated. I wish my grandparents were still around so I could pick their brain about what it was like to live before the MMR.

a reply to: coldkidc

Anti-vaxxers are uneducated bull# peddlers and I'm getting sick of threads like this.

It becomes sad when a federal push for vaccinations is driven more by an agenda to facilitate illegal laborers and make the fallacy seem less harmful. There's no love there.

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

True stupidity is parroting the same talking points without any independent thought, or even looking at the actual evidence.

"Independent thought" does not mean "cherry-picking sources that match my preformed opinion"

Every one i have researched was in steady decline BEFORE the vaccine was introduced and there was no noticeable change in the rate of decline after the vaccine was introduced. In fact, if you look at the infection rates over the last century there was actually a temporary increase in infection rates for many diseases after the vaccine was introduced. Now compare those numbers with countries that do not vaccinate and you will see that the declines are pretty close to the same. How could the infection rates of the same diseases decline at the same rate in countries that did not vaccinate if the vaccination was the reason for the decline?

Please do everybody a favor and actually look into the information you are peddling as "fact" before you go around spreading any more fear-mongering hyperbole. Sanitation, hygiene and access to medical care are far more important factors to eradicating infectious disease.

Then present your sources. I don't need to; my side of the argument is the side commonly accepted to be true by mainstream science. If you want to prove it wrong, provide some evidence.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

drtenpenny.com...

a reply to: xDeadcowx

Well, let's be fair here...diseases always come and go in cycles, so to say that the vaccine didn't "do" anything isn't really accurate. Who knows if there would have been another uptick in cases had the vaccines not been introduced?

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

I've always found the viewpoint that vaccines are taking more credit than they are owed to be a valid argument when you look at the mortality rates before vaccination is available.

This trend persists for many of the standard vaccines but here's the example for the measles vaccination which became available in 1963.






As you can see the downward trend existed long before the vaccine. When compared to something such as scurvy which obviously is NOT a communicable disease but is instead, a product of poor nutrition & living conditions, it becomes evident that much was changing during this time prior to vaccines that may have caused many of these diseases to disappear.

Scurvy

a reply to: SpongeBeard

Hey I'm not an anti-vaccine proponent I just had a personal experience I deal with everyday that was the result of receiving one. Now did it cause the autism or did it do something to my brain to "wake" autism up, idk but I do know I don't just have some blogspot site telling me vaccines can cause complications in some recipients.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that anyone would willingly let their children -- those who they love more than anything, presumably -- be vulnerable to sickness and disease by deliberately choosing not to vaccinate them. It is absolutely bizarre to me.

a reply to: Sweepsalot

That's simply because you haven't taken the time to look up the statistics on the risk associated with them vs. the number of occurrences of disease. You're towing the line...which is fine...but there are risks associated with the vaccines themselves.

Like I said in the post, I chose to vaccinate my children, but that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the risks involved....it is not a risk free decision.