The push to make you vaccinate your children

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: burdman30ott6

hey hey burdman...didn't you get the company memo ?

I did... but I recognize that sometimes the company is wrong.

my hero

a reply to: Kali74

Do you have any proof that isn't from the government or another affiliated industry connected through big money and lobbyists? Because millions think otherwise and actually live with effects.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Boatload here at google scholar.

originally posted by: coldkidc
I'm sure I'm not the only one that's seen it...

I would hope not. Anyone that has been paying attention for the past couple of decades should know the tune by now, even with the different lyrics.

Oh no! We have a health care crisis in America! People are choosing not to buy health insurance and that is hurting everyone else. Let the government take that choice away from them, for the good of everyone. It will make health care simpler and more affordable.

Oh no! We have an economic crisis in America! The American people should bail out the criminal bankers with their tax dollars, whether they want to or not. It's for the good of everyone, especially the ones who should have gone to jail over this.

Oh no! Crazy people with guns are killing people! Only the government should be allowed to have guns. It's for the good of everyone, except the ones killed by government guns or by criminals who aren't following the law.

Oh no! There are terrorists in America! People need to give up their rights when it comes to searches, seizures, privacy, judicial process, and anything else the government might need to take away to protect us. It's for the good of everyone. "Everyone" meaning the government that no longer needs to worry about that pesky Constitution.

Oh no! There are drugs in America! The police need to be able to use forfeiture laws to take money and property from people so they can't buy drugs. It's for the good of everyone, especially police.

Oh no! There are viruses in America! The government needs to force people to take vaccines and give the vaccine makers immunity from lawsuits. It's for the good of everyone, especially the pharmaceutical companies that donate so generously to lawmakers campaigns. You can trust that the government will never abuse the rights you give up. You can trust anything.

Pick a few cases, have the usual propaganda outlets declare a crisis, then try to scare people into giving up their rights. Keep using the same formula, people never seem to catch on.

a reply to: Kali74

I can do that too!

scholar.google.com...

Funny how it's the vaccine makers and pushers who fund the "studies" that "prove" there's no correlation.

originally posted by: tallcool1
I can do that too!
scholar.google.com...
Funny how it's the vaccine makers and pushers who fund the "studies" that "prove" there's no correlation.

Except the first link on your list includes reference to the discredited Dr Wakefield, whose false and fraudulent research led to him being struck-off the GMC register. If you are going to produce sources to support your worldview then try to make them believable!

Oh, and talking of vaccine-makers funding (blah, blah, blah), bear in mind the Dr Wakefield was paid to misrepresent the facts in court.

Regards

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Oh so true.

I think the most simple way to decide whether you vaccinate or not has to be to look at the ratio between how many people in hospital with whatever virus have had a vaccination for it and how many haven't. Interesting numbers.

Just remember folks "vaccination isn't immunisation"

(It's actually just a way to make money)

a reply to: Kali74

Star for effort but that doesn't answer my question. Do you have proof that vaccines don't cause autism that's not from the government, big pharma, academia, etc? Money talks.

Any independent studies or labs with no biases concerning the connection? I also don't trust articles without sources or blog entries that are just hearsay.

I don't doubt there's been bad batches or slip ups that have caused complications. Government is a shrewd business, they're always in cya mode. They also have a very hard time admitting mistakes.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

You want 'legitimate research', but academia is a no go?

Yea, you're looking for legitimate research all right.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Great list Victor - it's amazing how good they are at getting their way after throwing a fit...it's too bad there's no easily apparent way to fix it all.

Unfortunately, I think this method of crisis/reaction/solution is mandatory for politicians anymore.

a reply to: peck420

I want unbiased sources that aren't monetarily connected to the vaccine programs or big pharma. It's not impossible.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
I want unbiased sources that aren't monetarily connected to the vaccine programs or big pharma. It's not impossible.

When you specifically rule out academia...yea, legitimate just became impossible.

2nd.

Nobody should force anyone to get immunizations if they don't want them but those kids not immunized should not be allowed to enter into public schools either.

a reply to: peck420

Unfortunately, that is likely a true statement...vaccination is so engrained in our society at this point that there are very few, if any private medical institutions that have no horse in the race.

a reply to: peck420

I don't believe them when they defend official programs, no matter what the program is. Why should anyone trust an organization that shields itself from litigation and the people who actually deal with the results?

Most people don't want to "force" another parent to vaccinate their children, particularly when the child might be medically fragile, have autoimmune deficiencies, etc.

So the real question becomes "should children who have not been vaccinated be allowed to enroll in public schools?".

At the time of the first enrollment, the parent shows up with the child along with proper vaccination documentation, or they are turned away. Fine, but.

There are laws stating public schools must provide education to medically/emotionally/mentally fragile children and the like, so it's quite a dilemma.

More special classrooms...schools...call for more money (read -- taxes) .....which most on this site anyway, seem to resent monies already being spend on special needs individuals.

But no, I don't agree with all the Jenny McCarthy-induced frenzy. There's no real evidence to support that vaccinations cause Autism, while it is a fact that measles can cause death, and severe birth defects in pregnant women...

originally posted by: thesaneone
Nobody should force anyone to get immunizations if they don't want them but those kids not immunized should not be allowed to enter into public schools either.

The irony to your statement is the fact that many, many parents who are opposed to vaccinations would LOVE to homeschool their children, but the laws regarding mandatory state approved educations prevents them from doing so. States like New York, Ohio, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and even Utah are extremely regulated where homeschooling is concerned. Make a common sense, universal homeschool cirriculum and enact it in all 50 states which allows parents to homeschool without jumping through dozens of hoops and what you're advocating would naturally occur. But no, that federal honey pot of money redistributed on a per student's ass in a classroom seat every day basis is a bit too lucrative to pass anything that might cause less students to be sitting before their NEA member instructor every day.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
More special classrooms...schools...call for more money (read -- taxes) .....which most on this site anyway, seem to resent monies already being spend on special needs individuals.

The resentment isn't directed at special needs. If my tax dollars all went to special needs children, I'd not complain. The resentment is directed at a combination of laziness, waste, entitlement, and continuation of throwing money into a broken piece of machinery.

joy of joys, the medical industry largely operates under the same model and, now that we have the ACA, we're mandated into supporting that broke ass hunk of junk, too! YIPPEE!!!

To summarize pretty much every one of my grievances within this thread and most others on ATS:
DON'T FREAKIN' TREAD ON ME!
That covers all of it. Someone else's child being unable to accept a vaccine is NOT my circus nor my monkey... my children are my priority (ironically, just as their child is the priority of the person making the "my kid can't accept the vaccine" argument...hypocrisy, anyone?) and, as my priority, I will make the decision I feel is best for them. I do not need a village, I am not an animal so I do not need a herd, and I do not need any federal nanny to save me from myself.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Lol. I always buck at the expression "it takes a village to raise a child". That's just something people say. It's exaggerated -- good lord, look at what Tarzan and Jane did for "Boy". : ) Of course, there has to be at least one parent who doesn't work.

But I'm missing your point, I think. Are you saying vaccinations should be mandatory?

I think if it was mandatory other than for kids who have a compelling condition, in which case all the others who have simply jumped on this rather "trendy bandwagon", would go ahead and opt for the vaccinations, rather than go for the headache of finding another way to provide education.

The parent's who truly fear for the sick child's well being will find a way to educate at home, or find a private school willing to enroll them.

I wonder how many parents shouting from the rooftops about vaccinating kids actually have their own vaccines up to date and boosted. Genuinely curious.