GOP rep.: Keep minimum wage low ‘for minorities’ who aren’t worth more than $7 an hour

originally posted by: Xtrozero
The bottom line is if you are over 25 and trying to support a family on minimum wage you have truly messed up in life. I'm not talking short term setbacks, if your education and skills are nothing better than when you were 18 why does it become a company's job to pay you more for a job that only takes that level of skill set, so is not worth that pay?

I say this with the true belief that we need 10 bucks an hour now for minimum wage. Our Government these last 6 years has totally screwed us and so yes minimum wage increase is needed to off set their failures.

Why are the skills of a 25 year old worth more than minimum wage? Why are the skills of anyone worth more than minimum wage? People in India and China right now are performing the same jobs as every skilled labor position in the US and have less purchasing power for it than our minimum wage.

Jobs dont pay what the labor is worth, they never have and they never will. Such a thing is impossible because an employer wants a cut of the profits you're making a business. If you make them $100,000 your labor is worth $100,000 but they will only pay you a fraction of that. We are currently in a minimum wage economy and it's due to high wealth inequality.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I say this with the true belief that we need 10 bucks an hour now for minimum wage. Our Government these last 6 years has totally screwed us and so yes minimum wage increase is needed to off set their failures.

Out of curisosity...why should I pay anyone more than their worth? Why should I be forced? I agree $300 a week is not great, if it goes to $400...far less people work for me, period. As a note: no one makes $300 a week in my books, but if a min wage increase hits, so will the requests for more money.

Businesses operate in their own self interests, people themselves are stand alone businesses. I walk into everyday not gauranteed a damn thing and hold all the risk.

Ok, $10 an hour minimum, and I will revisit this, means everyone wants a raise as well. For the sake of reasoning....

$10 an hour means I must pay 2.08k for a low, low level position. Not to mention all the other bells and whisles that go with that, just call it 30k to make it easy from my side of the fence. When you look across the table at a person, and ask yourself internally, "are they going to advance (which is number one in my book) or are they worth the 30k? (my cost at current rate, without adding another 25%) I am going to have to train over bad habits, have others train him/her, risk any and all liabilities, etc.

This whole idea will make a $10 and hour job, adjusted back into a a $5 and hour job and just cost business owners more while the gov't get more flow...

MG

I am wondering weather some are missing a small detail in this equation.

The CNC operator is also finding it quite difficult to support his family!! Heck the tool and die maker is!!!!

I have no idea what a "living wage" would be in the US now but I would guess that since The Reader's Digest had place the value of all those gov't handouts (for a family of four with no other income) at around $10 an hour back in the 90's (when I could buy corn a dollar a dozen and would reject any kind of meat that was $2.00 or more and still have plenty of options!!) I would wager to guess that if we were to increase the minimum to something that were to provide an income that would place the employee over the guidelines for those programs the minimum wage would more than have to more than double!

Someone said we needed to "fix the money" and that is a big part of the problem! But we were also told that we would have cheaper prices by shipping our manufacturing to countries with lower wage demands... I am sorry but $100 sneakers isn't cheaper!!!

Increasing wages is only one part of the equation, we need to find a way to reduce the cost of living and find a balance that can be maintained without a ton of gov't mandates and regulations manipulating that balance.

If someone has no problem working for the current minimum wage it's not really anyone's business, unless of course that person has that as their sole income and ends up in the welfare lines. Maybe instead of just handing the person the money we could have similar strings attached as we do for unemployment. Someone sits down with them and they work out a budget to determine how much they need to be self sufficient and they chart a path for them to be in a position that earns that amount and well the person is obligated to follow that path and their current employer is also obligated to put up with a few inconveniences along the way like answering the telepnone callls for references and having to schedule their hours around his college courses and such!

a reply to: missed_gear

This republican clown obviously isn't worth what his
district is paying for him. I'd say pay him minimum wage,
but he's not worth it.

I can understand a business being opposed to higher minimum
wages. Its narrow self interest, though. The facts are that minimum
wage is well below the poverty level. The governnment subsidizes
minimum wage workers with food stamps and earned income tax credits.

So business pays one way or the other. There needs to be an international
minimum work standard for businesses. Its wrong for workers anywhere to
have to compete with 12 hr per day $.35 per hour wage slaves anywhere. Someday
wage will converge and the whole world will have the same standards.
'

a reply to: UMayBRite!

The plight of the businessman is linked with the plight of his consumers. But, I get it. The only businesses that are worth anything now, are the ones that serve the wealthy. I get it, the laborer is a sub species that deserves only to labor and struggle. Republicans are correct. We are not a democracy anymore. Maybe they are right about us being a sub species also. Glad my time here is short. Sorry about the younger generation. It is your fight now, or don't.

“Quite frankly, a lot of us thought that by buying politicians, rewriting tax laws, and hiding money overseas, we were getting it done,” said Dorrinson, who owns the hedge fund Garrote Capital. “If, at the end of the day, all we control is a measly half of the world’s wealth, clearly we need to do more—much more.”
Source:www.newyorker.com...

originally posted by: tiberius10721
a reply to: EvillerBob

Don't assume your position is not popular here I have been working since I was 10 yrs old now I'm 42 I have had every filthy job there is my parents treated me like an employee till I was 17 and a half yrs old when I went join the army I have more respect for a woman who gives me oral sex than a welfare recipient!

The vast gap i reality of this statement is astounding. Have you looked into the vast humbers of vets from the last 14 years of middle east dabacles who are at best stuck working s#tty minimum wage jobs, on average colleting welfare and at worst, part of the rver growing and far too high numbers doing much worse as part of the vastly increasing numbers of homeless in america? When I enlisted(desoite your proteststions to the contrary) they talked a big game about how many jobs would be waiting for me when my time was up and how someone with my skills and leadership qualities would be in such high demand and it was the biggest crock of bull ive heard since then. I just think you. Edd to tskea hard look at the numbers snd see who it is youre really disparaging. Domt get me wrong, i certainly dont disagree that there are segments of the population that are simply milking off the teet of hard working americans with little intention of changing that but doing away with an entire system because a percentage of people abuse it and larger percentsges are based on people who have slready paid into the system with their own tax dollars is counterproductive snd a slap in the face to the vast amount of people who ended up needing food stsmps or other services after tge finanical "elite" destroyed the entire economy virtuslly overnight in 2008. The equation is based on far more thsn just s bunch of bums worthy of your ire.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

you do realize that the minimum wage earners are vital for the cogs to keep on turning ?....

i get the impression you look down on people who do not strive for financial success ..

I disagree, minimum wage is entry level work for those that have not developed their skills and/or education yet. It is typically in a job that a company can easily teach you what to do very quickly and if you can do those simple tasks, show up on time, do a full day of work you qualify. Only about 6% of the hourly work force actually makes minimum wage, but it is the foundation all other wages are based on.

The best minimum wage has been is $10.90 converted for inflation. If we raise it to 10.00 we will have raised it above the vast majority of the years it has been in place.

The reason why it is such a big issue is that the White House has failed so miserably that skilled workers have been force to take unskilled jobs these last 6 years. This doesn't mean the jobs are worth anymore than before, but the people in them need more than minimum wage for a living wage. So the big issue is that there isn't enough jobs for our skilled force, not that minimum wage needs to be 15 bucks an hour.

originally posted by: Xtrozero




The best minimum wage has been is $10.90 converted for inflation. If we raise it to 10.00 we will have raised it above the vast majority of the years it has been in place.

You lost me here....

Could you explain that a little more?

originally posted by: dawnstar
Someone said we needed to "fix the money" and that is a big part of the problem! But we were also told that we would have cheaper prices by shipping our manufacturing to countries with lower wage demands... I am sorry but $100 sneakers isn't cheaper!!!

We did get cheaper prices, what you're seeing is the effect of inflation. We got cheaper prices but we sacrificed our income so things are now less affordable.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I disagree, minimum wage is entry level work for those that have not developed their skills and/or education yet. It is typically in a job that a company can easily teach you what to do very quickly and if you can do those simple tasks, show up on time, do a full day of work you qualify. Only about 6% of the hourly work force actually makes minimum wage, but it is the foundation all other wages are based on.

That may be what you think it is supposed to be but that's not the way it's currently being used. Skilled positions that require college degrees pay minimum wage these days.

People keep asking why they should pay people more than minimum wage for some jobs or why people should be paid more than they're worth. These are the wrong questions.


People should be asking why a person has to work two to four jobs to live.

originally posted by: UMayBRite!
a reply to: missed_gear

This republican clown obviously isn't worth what his
district is paying for him. I'd say pay him minimum wage,
but he's not worth it.

I can understand a business being opposed to higher minimum
wages. Its narrow self interest, though. The facts are that minimum
wage is well below the poverty level. The governnment subsidizes
minimum wage workers with food stamps and earned income tax credits.

So business pays one way or the other. There needs to be an international
minimum work standard for businesses. Its wrong for workers anywhere to
have to compete with 12 hr per day $.35 per hour wage slaves anywhere. Someday
wage will converge and the whole world will have the same standards.
'

In the meantime those low wages are necessary for western businesses to have incentives to build factories abroad and invest abroad in general. If there wouldn't be the wage discrepancy there would not be an incentive for large businesses to invest abroad. At some point growth wont be expressed through the increase in manufacturing and infrastructure anymore but through an increase in wages.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
People keep asking why they should pay people more than minimum wage for some jobs or why people should be paid more than they're worth. These are the wrong questions.


People should be asking why a person has to work two to four jobs to live.

They don't.

There's something like 90 million people in the U.S. who are working ZERO jobs and they're alive and well.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: EternalSolace
People keep asking why they should pay people more than minimum wage for some jobs or why people should be paid more than they're worth. These are the wrong questions.


People should be asking why a person has to work two to four jobs to live.

They don't.

There's something like 90 million people in the U.S. who are working ZERO jobs and they're alive and well.

And it feels absolutely wonderful to be able to subsidize that for them with the two jobs I work. /sarcasm

originally posted by: Aazadan
Why are the skills of a 25 year old worth more than minimum wage? Why are the skills of anyone worth more than minimum wage? People in India and China right now are performing the same jobs as every skilled labor position in the US and have less purchasing power for it than our minimum wage.

So lets say you can make 100 widgets an hour due to your skills and other can only make 25 per hour. What should I pay them? What should I pay you? If the 25 widgets per hour gets paid 10 bucks per hour and I tell you that I will only pay you 10 bucks per hour too then you will tell me to screw off and go look for a company that will pay more based on your skills. It is kind of simple...

If you make them $100,000 your labor is worth $100,000 but they will only pay you a fraction of that.

Labor is typically 33% to 36% to a company's gross. If it is less then that the company is screwing the employees, and if it is more the company has a good chance of going under.

originally posted by: missed_gear
Out of curisosity...why should I pay anyone more than their worth? Why should I be forced? I agree $300 a week is not great, if it goes to $400...far less people work for me, period. As a note: no one makes $300 a week in my books, but if a min wage increase hits, so will the requests for more money.

You pay what the job is worth. A 10 buck an hour job is worth 10 bucks and if you get a Phd in it then it is still only worth 10 bucks, but we decided to establish a minimum wage so we have set a minimum that typically is connected to inflation.

This whole idea will make a $10 and hour job, adjusted back into a a $5 and hour job and just cost business owners more while the gov't get more flow...

Why 5 bucks? why not 1 buck per hour, where did you get 5 from?

originally posted by: olaru12

You lost me here....

Could you explain that a little more?

In 1938 minimum wage was .25c per hour. If you adjusted that for inflation that would equal $4.07 in 2012. In 1968 minimum wage was $1.60 per hour, and adjusted for inflation that would be $10.56 in 2012. 1968 was the best minimum wage has ever been, so an increase today of minimum wage to $10.00 per hour would put it damn close to the all time high in 1968.

originally posted by: Aazadan

That may be what you think it is supposed to be but that's not the way it's currently being used. Skilled positions that require college degrees pay minimum wage these days.

Can you name some of them for us?

originally posted by: Xtrozero
In 1938 minimum wage was .25c per hour. If you adjusted that for inflation that would equal $4.07 in 2012. In 1968 minimum wage was $1.60 per hour, and adjusted for inflation that would be $10.56 in 2012. 1968 was the best minimum wage has ever been, so an increase today of minimum wage to $10.00 per hour would put it damn close to the all time high in 1968.

Your argument here relies on CPI inflation numbers. The way inflation is calculated by CPI (which is then factored into the base rate for bank loans) was changed in 1982 in order to put a stop to the rampant inflation of the 70s. We never actually solved the inflation issue we simply started recording it different. Essentially we changed from tracking the price of a good or the time to work to purchase a good from one year to the next and looked instead at total household spending. To give you a practical example of this lets say you buy 3 turkey sandwiches at $2 each. The next year inflation happens and that same $6 now only buys you 2 sandwiches at $3 each. Under the pre 1982 system this would be recorded as an annual inflation rate of 50%. Under the post 1982 system, assuming you only spend that same $6 because that's all you can afford the inflation rate is recorded at 0 because you spend $6 before and $6 after.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Aazadan

That may be what you think it is supposed to be but that's not the way it's currently being used. Skilled positions that require college degrees pay minimum wage these days.

Can you name some of them for us?

We could take my current jobs. Computer programmer and college tutor. Both require bachelors degrees. Both pay minimum wage.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Why 5 bucks? why not 1 buck per hour, where did you get 5 from?

I apologize, I was skimming and not being to clear as I was tired...

A higher min wage means more for the gov't period.

Average employee pays 18-25% into taxes/witholding/SS included ( interest free to the government for a year) dependents and everyting can be considered as a variable; and not excluded some credits are obviously awarded correctly etc.

In my state, add 8.125% sales tax for anything tangible one buys out of NET income (some grocery items are excluded)
40 cents a gallon tax on gasoline. Utility taxes (every bill is riddled with them included) , FCC taxes on cell phones, tax on cable/satelite, tax on internet, tax on replacing a car battery, tax on car registration, saftey inspections on a vehicle (all to get to work) or a bus that would cost an average of $50 a month for one person ( direct and no transfer each way 5 days a week).

Without looking up exacts, I can tell you from experience...$10 would turn to $5 disposable very quick.

And who gets more money?

MG