GOP rep.: Keep minimum wage low ‘for minorities’ who aren’t worth more than $7 an hour

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

a reply to: deadeyedick

It is just the basic principle of supply and demand.

So once again you have nothing to back up your bluster and banality.



And just to clue you in, if there was rampant inflation it would manifest in demand economics which it has not.

you seem to be without rational thought. the price of food is all the evidense a person needs.
to think you would need some piece of paper to prove that food prices have doubled in recent yrs while wages have not shows you do not buy what you eat or you have monetary gain in remaining ignorrant of reality.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Don't assume your position is not popular here I have been working since I was 10 yrs old now I'm 42 I have had every filthy job there is my parents treated me like an employee till I was 17 and a half yrs old when I went join the army I have more respect for a woman who gives me oral sex than a welfare recipient!

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

As it is obvious you have never owned a business I can say that not all jobs are equal and some are more skilled or specialized, and therefore more important, than others. The CNC operator makes the manufacturing plant money, the janitor cleaning the toilets does not. One is a net contributor the other is not. A CNC operator is a skilled, in demand job, a janitor can be found quite easily.

And if the CNC Operators and Office Personnel and so on that make the company money see what a dump the place is, they are going to move on to other companies, so yea even the janitor provides a monetary service.

Was thinking the same thing, see how fast morale drops when the cleaning people don't show up for a week.
Is it productive for the employees to interupt their regular work to clean up?

I do this 'type' of service work, and if we are not available to do work at a business, like say we are pulled off to do another job elsewhere, watch the panic ensue by the management at this business.
It's phenomenal!

These people have more value than a lot of people think, and that is sad.

a reply to: Toadmund

Maybe it would be cheaper to give CNBC operators a sizable wage and have them do the cleaning at the start or ending of each shift be careful sometimes you can price yourself out of a job when owners and supervisors have had enough!

originally posted by: Toadmund

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus



As it is obvious you have never owned a business I can say that not all jobs are equal and some are more skilled or specialized, and therefore more important, than others. The CNC operator makes the manufacturing plant money, the janitor cleaning the toilets does not. One is a net contributor the other is not. A CNC operator is a skilled, in demand job, a janitor can be found quite easily.

And if the CNC Operators and Office Personnel and so on that make the company money see what a dump the place is, they are going to move on to other companies, so yea even the janitor provides a monetary service.

Was thinking the same thing, see how fast morale drops when the cleaning people don't show up for a week.

Is it productive for the employees to interupt their regular work to clean up?



I do this 'type' of service work, and if we are not available to do work at a business, like say we are pulled off to do another job elsewhere, watch the panic ensue by the management at this business.

It's phenomenal!



These people have more value than a lot of people think, and that is sad.

The thought that the cleaning staff make no money is just outright wrong..if the cnc operators as an example are spending any time doing the janitorial then they are NOT making money at those times..I guess they can get rid of maintenence and make less money.
The size of the business is relevant of course.

a reply to: olaru12

"retail/wholesale business man"...............really?
because you defeat your own argument without even realizing it

Do you understand that by offering more then minimum, you are effectively out bidding competing sources of employment in order to entice higher quality employees then would be available at the lower wage?
you are paying MORE in order to get better motivated and more loyal workers?
which means that those you reject for what ever reason are worth LESS than what you are willing to pay.
Meaning that they will have to take jobs for LESS. An option you are advocating to be taken away.
In essence, you are saying that there is a pool of workers that you deem NOT worth what you pay, but you are expecting government to make a law to force other employers to take them on at prices you yourself are NOT willing to pay them.

I know nothing of your given industry, but apparently you have price points that allow you to pay more. well good for you, and your employees. What about other businesses where that is not an option? You know nothing about the market conditions being faced by the multitudes of other businesses, but yet you feel qualified to demand a one size fits all government mandate.

I will grant you that the politicians sound bite is somewhat cringe worthy, but it is in essence true.
It is unfortunate that discourse on complex issues has been boiled down to sound bites and snippets, and that the voting public is being intentionally driven by emotion instead of critical thinking.

The truth is that there are some jobs that need to be done, but simply are not worth much. In a true market economy, that would sort itself out with wages meeting employee supply and quality. Instead we suffer from a nanny state that believes it can tweek every aspect of human existence like some giant machine and that with just the right formula of minimum wage laws, immigration, entitlements, and unemployment pay outs they can build utopia. Instead they have created an unstable mess where no one can find peace.

originally posted by: Edumakated
What the representative said is true. The biggest losers when it comes to minimum wage (and illegal immigration) are black teenagers. This is why teen unemployment is so high in urban areas now. It used to be an unskilled teen could get a summer job dropping fries at fast food restaurants. Now they can't because the wages required exceed the value of hiring a 15 or 16 year old in many areas. Hence you have hoards of young black teens in urban areas with nothing to productive to do to earn a little spending money, so they resort to hustling on the corners.

In fact, if you really research the history of the minimum wage and the Davis-Beacon act, you will see that it was primarily designed with racist origins to keep companies from hiring blacks. Economist Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams have written extensively about the effects of minimum wage on blacks and its history.

Of course, you can't expect liberals to dig into the actual facts of a subject beyond trying to spin something as racist.

Thats BS the reason teens are not hired is that fast food has grown into a serious buisness taking in millions and many people, not just teenager, depend in the US on those jobs, especially in the US where higher education is expensive.

Businesses wont do any less or more hiring because minimum wage goes up. That implies they hired an charitable amount of staff before. They did not, they hired what they needed and what they need wont be affected by 24 Dollars a day per person. Thats what? 3 large menues?

originally posted by: robobbob
a reply to: olaru12

"retail/wholesale business man"...............really?
because you defeat your own argument without even realizing it

Do you understand that by offering more then minimum, you are effectively out bidding competing sources of employment in order to entice higher quality employees then would be available at the lower wage?
you are paying MORE in order to get better motivated and more loyal workers?
which means that those you reject for what ever reason are worth LESS than what you are willing to pay.
Meaning that they will have to take jobs for LESS. An option you are advocating to be taken away.
In essence, you are saying that there is a pool of workers that you deem NOT worth what you pay, but you are expecting government to make a law to force other employers to take them on at prices you yourself are NOT willing to pay them.

I know nothing of your given industry.

Yes really....

But one thing is certain, I won't have verbose, logic twisting know it alls, or pompous academic geeks working for me!!

I don't even want them as customers!

I'm the guy that pays the lease, buys the raw stock, pays the insurance, and worker comp, pays the light and water bill, buys the vehicles, and everything else that's required to run a small business and you have the goddamn audacity to tell me how to hire my people and what to pay them?
What is it about free enterprise that you don't understand?

Thats how I got a job working for a city municipality

Government job ... taking your pay from the tax payer who has no choice about your services.

That's one of the biggest things that the GOP is just flat out dumb on is their idea of taxes and wages. At least in my opinion.

They think it's a good idea to slash corporate taxes down to the bone and let companies slide on by without hardly any regulations, and think paying their workers even less money will some how make the economy grow.

One of the best things I always say a company can invest in is their employees. What do you think people do when they have extra money? They go out and spend it. And they spend it on anything you can think of. Automobiles, education, electronics, houses, insurance, food, entertainment, clothing, and the list goes on and on. The money just circulates right back into the pockets of corporations. And all of this exchange of money ends up generating more taxes for the government. How do you expect companies to grow if consumers/workers don't have money to buy their products? I just heard on the news about a day or two ago that something like 100 human being have more wealth than about 3.5billion people combined. Not 100% sure on the exact statistics on that, but it was definitely something ridiculous like that. I don't understand how this is even fair, or justifiable. There's no way in hell they work that much harder. You would literally and physically die before you could come anywhere close to achieving that.

Go find me some reasonably overweight middle aged fat cat for a place like a Walmart and have them put on shopping cart duty in the middle of winter and lets see how that works out. You honestly think that guy would work like 200x harder than their employees who do it all of the time? Not a chance in hell. He'd be whining at the end of the first day guaranteed.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

What about all the NON minorities (white men) who have families and are taking crappy minimum-wage jobs just to get by? In his world, these people don't exist.

They do not exist for the most part and are bogeymen created by Liberals.

1.5 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.8 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.3 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 4.3 percent of all hourly paid workers.

So half of them are tipped workers who simply are not reporting tips. This takes us from 4.3% to 1.95%.

Age. Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth
of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less.

Half are 24 or under. 1.95% to .98%.

Less than 1% and that does not take into account women making min. wage. All these 30 year old fathers making minimum wage is a myth.

They are mostly younger people, and only 4% of workers with a high school diploma make minimum wage, and only 2% with a college degree. Only 2% are married.
www.bls.gov...

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I like the idea of expanding the earned income tax credit to childless workers. I think rubio's idea of a credit covering the difference between what a worker makes and 40,000 to be givin as a tax credit.

It would be better than raising the minimum wage because employers could continue employing workers at the same rate and it would save many other jobs that might be lost to robots.

Tax credits don't save money. When your income taxes go down, your other taxes that are less visible raise in order to compensate.

those who have a $ 7 per hour, they will not vote in the election they to work. like all elections in the Soviet Union and Russia held on the weekend in the US elections on a working day means the population is not able to vote and I do not think these elections as legitimate

originally posted by: xuenchen
The whole problem backtracks to the fact that normal higher wage jobs are not accelerating.

Government has made sure those jobs keep getting scarcer by the day.

The minimum wage fallacy keeps your eye off the real problem.

I am a fairly strong conservative but cant buy into this so much anymore. Cant let our libertine disaffection with government make up stupid parrots here. Cant really buy this idea that the market sets wages either.

Have seen way to many employers pay hard workers the same a lazy asses and never do anything about it. Seen to many go for the carrot on the stick of higher wage promise and work them selves into the ground and yet have to beg for a .50 cent raise after years of the effort. To many employers see their labor costs as a block, pay all the same, look for reasons not to pay more, threaten you with the guy in the office filling out an application and finally blame the government.

I was recently lured to a job interview by a wage posting only to be told after an offer of hire was made that it was a misprint. So what else is new? I cant look at myself in the mirror and work for an ass like that nor will I have myself leveraged into being forced to eat that bucket of s*it because I have bills.

originally posted by: roadgravel

Thats how I got a job working for a city municipality

Government job ... taking your pay from the tax payer who has no choice about your services.

I have an apple tree in my front yard. There was one big red and juicy apple on it that stood out and I had been waiting to pick it just for myself.

A road crew was working in front of my home. Was watching them from the window. Watched the foreman just walk right into the yard and pick THAT apple, take a big bite out of it and walk off. A true government worker and representative.

My wife and I personally own several (diverse) small businesses; I have scanned through most of the thread...mostly "outside looking-in" comments... The reality in/of business is missing.

I will use one unit as an example.

If I paid just min wage, the dishwasher can go down the street and get the same...and they do. I do not pay min wages.

To a greater point. I pay more to insurance and the government(s) which makes more than I make from any single unit.

Texas alone, 17.5% of of my LBW (liquor, beer and wine) sales. I collect 8.125% in sales tax on non-alcs. Pay matching 7 1/8% to every worker's social security based on earnings, hold FICA and Medicare all through a company that charges. Forget about the Obama care rip-off. All paid monthly. Annual audits that cost time and money.

Annually, a 1% fee to the state "gross franchise tax" based on gross revenue. I budget $1000 a year just to ASCAP. Vending taxes are variable and almost criminal. Signage, alarm permits, health department, food handling permits, fire inspections and supression...(city, count, state, federal) the list is long.

What of the guy that has his neck on the line and employs? I have been in court several times just this year and it is January 2015...for pathetic lawsuits over nothing. Nothing was awarded and some of these started 4 years ago. Protecting my business and people's jobs.

What about the person that takes care of the above and much more? All the risk. When I see $10 an hour I look at my bottom lines. I will cut hours and balance, no one wins. What is not mentioned is a cook, making $15 an hour will also want a raise etc.

To another poster, about the tipped employees....many years ago started you must claim all of your charge tips, period, if you are less than 15%, you will be charged on you tax claims. Read-up on the IRS requirements. If they operate under the table then 'maybe'. Formula

Raise the min in my world, I cut back hours on everyone to compensate. The government makes more than us out of our business'. A raise in min is more taxes for them and I hope someone can see that.....

MG

originally posted by: jacobe001

And if the CNC Operators and Office Personnel and so on that make the company money see what a dump the place is, they are going to move on to other companies, so yea even the janitor provides a monetary service.

You obviously do not even remotely understand what I was posting, hence your hyperbole and rhetoric.

Try again.

I have to say, based on the quality (or lack thereof) of recent hires in my company, there's quite a large contingent of people, whose work ethic, and reliability (again, or lack thereof) relegates them to not being worth more than minimum wage, based on what they bring to the table.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

you seem to be without rational thought. the price of food is all the evidense a person needs.
to think you would need some piece of paper to prove that food prices have doubled in recent yrs while wages have not shows you do not buy what you eat or you have monetary gain in remaining ignorrant of reality.

And all you give is anecdotal evidence and do not have even a rudimentary grasp of economics.

Over the last century food prices have gone up at a slower rate than wages. As a matter of fact, our money actually purchases more now due to improvements in infrastructure and distribution which has made food and food production cheaper.

Some regular items with the 1913 cost, their 2013 cost and the percent increase:

Bread
$ 0.056 $ 1.422 2439%

Flour
$0.033 $0.524 1488%

Fresh milk, per gallon(1)
$0.089/quart (or $0.356/gallon) $3.526 890%

Cheese
$0.222 $5.832 2527%

Butter
$0.409 $3.501 756%

Coffee
$0.299 $5.902 1874%

Potatoes
$0.016 $0.627 3819%

Rice
$0.086 $0.715 731%

Sirloin steak
$0.238 $5.705 2297%

Round steak
$0.205 $5.074 2375%

Chuck roast
$0.149 $3.696 2381%

Pork chops
$0.187 $3.465 1753%

Bacon
$0.254 $4.407 1635%

Ham
$0.251 $2.693 973%

Eggs, per dozen
$0.373 $1.933 418%

Sugar
$0.058 $0.683 1078%

In that same time median income has gone up over 4,000%, outstripping the increase in food.


Source

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

I agree to an extent with your observation, but that is being used to pay some workers who work harder the same wage. The ones who make the business actually work but are subject to the same pay because of that thinking.