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They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine

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posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




Oh the Guardian.


Yes the same source you used right here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good try, but the hypocrisy you protrude is astonishing.

So the Guardian is only credible when it backs your views, but when it goes against your views they are not credible.

Next time you bash a source you should make sure you don't use that same source for one of your threads.




posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: humanityrising
a reply to: humanityrising

And if we're really digging back on the genocide, the US wiped out a whole indigenous people in a most cruel and oppressive manner...


I think you should check your history again. Europeans were responsible for the bulk of that when they came to the new world and established their territories.

Funny how people ignore facts.


And that was the Soviet Union that did all that evil in the 20th century, not Russia. Good point.

Don't you think that Russia paints that picture of the west, and America does the same with whatever dirt they can use on Russia? I'm pointing out that they use almost identical systems of sealing off their populations so they can be easily propagandized into loving or hating whoever their government chooses.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising

Considering the "Soviet Union" was Russia in all but name, I fail to see your point other than trying to sidestep the issue.

The Soviet Union was simply the Russian Empire converted into a Communist state.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising

I think the image Russian propaganda paints of the west is designed to affect Russian citizens into believing the US is evil and coming to kill them and that the only salvation they have is Putin.

As for your attempt to split hairs the governments at that time are not the governments in existence today.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising




Don't you think that Russia paints that picture of the west, and America does the same with whatever dirt they can use on Russia?


The problem here is that the west has it's choice as of what to believe, as we have numerous media outlets that don't just stick to the government narrative...whereas in Russia you hear what the government wants you to hear, and those who go against the government narrative either get taken over or shutdown.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

holy # can you blame them? UAF doesn't give a # about ceasefires or the Minsk agreement so why should they.

the separatists have made their ambitions clear, Ukraine should have allowed them autonomy and left them alone a long time ago.

againt my point is the people of Novoroccya have every right to determine their future. they want no part of ukraine or the EU, i wish they could just vote on it and get it over with but no, they are attacked for wanting to choose their own path.

you can think what ever you want. i support freedom. ukraine i free to join the EU but if the east does not want to they have the right to go their own way.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

look man both sides have their hand in the cookie jar, russia sent people there, the us sent people there, the poles sent people there, and so on. that just the nature of political interests.

and no my "little picture" comment was geared towards the comments you made about carlos the ATC. i dont know why you thought i was talking about something completely different but ok. you do nit pick, just sayin. you like to latch onto any thing you can argue no matter how inconsequential.

and i don't really understand why you believe that the Russian government has sent Russian neo nazis to Ukraine or chose Pavel to run NAF/DPR. the ukraine is like the wild west right now. there are tons of people from many different countries. so yeah so what, there are russian neo nazis. there are also chechens, french, georgian, and etc. whats your point. if russia was supporting and arming neo nazis attacking civilian areas then i would have a problem, but there is no evidence that that is the case.

either way the point is the people of Novorocciya have a right to chose and should not be attacked for it. sadly they are.
edit on 26-1-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

and i um... i sent you a link to that channel so you can see who the separatists are.. i don't really know why you are talking about context and where the videos are shot. but alright i guess.

and im not sure on exactly what members in Ukraine government have ties to neo nazi groups but i do know that the neo nazis are well armed and they certainly didn't but their own equipment. that means someone is funding and arming them. so if you support the people that support the nazis what does that make you? i know thats a silly way to put it but i dont know how else to say it so you dont misunderstand my intentions again.

and id post some videos to show you who you are supporting but ill refrain and hope you have the courage to do it yourself.

just try to see things from both sides of the fence.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: stumason

apologize for what? whats the proof that the attack was carried out by the separatists? think about it.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Well, the OSCE's investigation has indicated that the rockets came from areas controlled by the separatists.

Source



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Based on your logic then Russia should remove all forces from Chechnya and allow them to live the way they want.

Secondly the separatist leaders are Russian, meaning they have no right to start a rebellion in order to pull territory away from Ukraine, let alone Russia invading and illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Are you really this ignorant on whats going on or are you just hoping Putin is right? You strike me as the type of person who fails to do research and finds it easier to just tote the Russian narrative with no independent thought. Your inability to adequately grasp and understand history is another problem you seem to exhibit.

Do you have any desire at all to think on your own?
edit on 27-1-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

So you use the term supporting Nazis yet you cant name any. Then you try to use a half ass response to try and insinuate it.

If you cant identify who the Nazis are then maybe you should stop using the term in a generalized format. If you wish to call someone a Nazi how about the leader of the DPR who is considering not accepting prisoners anymore. You do understand what that means right? It means any person captured would be executed, which is a war crime.

Yet I don't see you denouncing that. Typical from people like you who accuse and yet cant support it with facts.

Russia is not going to win this and people like you better start thinking for yourselves less you go down with putin.

stop the willful ignorance would you please.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 03:51 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

ok azov battalion and whatever the other little military outfit is fighting along side UAF(Aidar battalion is their name, not sure). there you #en happy now. i just named the real deal nazis with swastica tattos, hitler love, and aggressive disposition for the Russian people who have been armed by the Ukrainian military and fight along side the ukranian military.

and i really really really dont see why you believe that the DPR should keep trying to negotiate when all that ever happens is the UAF use a ceasefire as a means to regroup so they can bomb them some more. i don't know why you expect them to hold their ground as more and more civilians die. but let me guess you probably think every time the ceasefires were broken it was the NAF who broke them. this is what i mean by try to see both sides of the fence. what would you do if the place you were born in and that you helped to build was being attacked over and over? would you hold the airport while the people you were attacking gained ever more funding and weaponry to eliminate you?

and no. why does it mean they will be executed? they just wont be taken in the first place. but you know what, when you get some news about UAF being executed by NAF then rush strait here and make a post about it.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:05 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Based on your logic then Russia should remove all forces from Chechnya and allow them to live the way they want.

Secondly the separatist leaders are Russian, meaning they have no right to start a rebellion in order to pull territory away from Ukraine, let alone Russia invading and illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Are you really this ignorant on whats going on or are you just hoping Putin is right? You strike me as the type of person who fails to do research and finds it easier to just tote the Russian narrative with no independent thought. Your inability to adequately grasp and understand history is another problem you seem to exhibit.

Do you have any desire at all to think on your own?


um no because the lifestyle of the Chechen terrorist is attacking Russia. Russia helps the chechens militarily and financially. the Russians don't impose anything upon the Chechen people. they have their own laws and governance and that isnt going to change.

Secondly the separatist leaders aren't Russian. Name one that is.

and i'm not hoping Putin is anything. im hoping that the people who choose not to ally themselves with the Ukrainian government are treated with respect and given their right to self determination. i also hope that the new Novorocciya republic, once established, has strong bonds with the Ukrainians as an autonomous republic within a Ukraine that is part of the EU. although i know that wont happen, if the separatists aren't eliminated then the EU wont budge. anyone who is clever enough to figure it out knows that the EU doesn't want Ukraine to develop its democracy, they want it so that Russia is cut off from the black sea.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

interesting... when i first head about it i had suspicions that it may have been the NAF they have been talking about pushing out of the airport and taking more territory. i think if it was them they are trying to create a buffer zone to push through.

this doesn't solidify it tho. the DPR's positions are still being contested by both sides. id need to see more evidence to know for sure.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




look man both sides have their hand in the cookie jar, russia sent people there, the us sent people there, the poles sent people there, and so on. that just the nature of political interests.


And yet Russia is the only one with active boots on the ground.



and no my "little picture" comment was geared towards the comments you made about carlos the ATC. i dont know why you thought i was talking about something completely different but ok. you do nit pick, just sayin.


And yet I sowed you the little picture was what turned into a big picture as what he supposedly said he saw is what brought out the fabrication of the SU 25 shooting down MH 17, so you can call it nit picking but most call it attention to details which you seem to just ignore. Just saying.



and i don't really understand why you believe that the Russian government has sent Russian neo nazis to Ukraine or chose Pavel to run NAF/DPR.


Because they did. Here take a look and you tell me he isn't a neo Nazi?



Do yourself a favor and look into the RNU, or better yet here you go.



Still want to say he isn't a neo NAzi?

A little research is a good thing...try it sometime.



either way the point is the people of Novorocciya have a right to chose and should not be attacked for it. sadly they are.


Except it is Ukraine and they have the right to do what they want without Russia trying to tell them what they can do...but amazingly you and a few others seem to forget that.

Have you forgot that Russia acknowledged that UKraine was a sovereign nation in 91 and has acknowledged that ever since, that is until Putin got butt hurt when they wanted to join with the EU, and now we have what we do in Ukraine today.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




Secondly the separatist leaders aren't Russian. Name one that is.


Oh really...

Igor Strelkov...AKA...Igor Girkin

Alexander Borodai

Valery Bolotov

They were the leaders until Moscow called them back.

ANd since you probably won't do any research here is where the three of them are from...

Strelkov...born in Moscow

Borodai...born in Moscow

Bolotov...born in Taganrong Russia

So there you go three Russians that were separatist leaders.
edit on 27-1-2015 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:35 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

no there a poles and english speaking people in ukraine, among others, too. theres actual evidence of that.

what makes you think anyone in the russian government was even talking to pavel. yeah hes a nazi ive known this for months. cool beans. is he even around anymore? the most i ever see him doing is give interviews with his stupid face and his terrible vocabulary. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? are you really trying to argue that its ok that Ukrainian neo nazis are killing innocents because Pavel lives in Ukraine and may or may not hold some sort of position of importance within Novorocciya?

the SU shooting down mh17 isn't a fabrication, its a good lead as to who did it based in alot of facts. you can twist and turn it however you #en want doesn't change a thing.

"Except it is Ukraine and they have the right to do what they want without Russia trying to tell them what they can do...but amazingly you and a few others seem to forget that."
when did Russia tell them what to do? ukraine can do what they want. if they want to join the EU then so be it. but the people living out east who want no part of it can do what they want as well.

Russia didn't start this. you can say they did all you want but it doesn't change anything. this was started by meddling of western interests and a government coup but "you and a few others seem to forget that".

keep ignoring facts because they don't gel with your dumb opinion all you want.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

wooow 3 people? cooool. case closed, russia did it.

you seem to think that i am trying to argue that Russia is playing no part in this. yet im positive they are, they have interests and those interests coincide with the interests of the people of Novorocciya.

my point is, is that if the eastern people of Ukraine wish to go their separate way they should have the right to do so. and the people of west Ukraine have the same right, and the is no justification for them attacking the easterners based on a difference in opinion. but its not that simple, the west doesn't want a little piece they want the whole pie.

please explain to me why the east doesn't deserve autonomy? why hasn't this been settled by a vote(which was attempted a long time ago mind you).



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:53 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason

the SU shooting down mh17 isn't a fabrication, its a good lead as to who did it based in alot of facts. you can twist and turn it however you #en want doesn't change a thing.


Ukraine is sovereign regardless of how much you, pro Russian and Russia state the opposite.

An aircraft did not shoot down MH17 - A buk missile fired from rebel territory did.

The reconstruction of the aircraft confirms that.



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