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They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine

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posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason


no duh, but just because you manipulate a public opinion doesn't mean you are lying.

When the manipulation paints a picture that is not true, and its done intentionally then its a lie.



originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
real cute, compare Russia to nazi Germany some more. Its easy to see when someone has run out of # to say when they start pulling this garbage out of their bag.

Not at all.. If you knew your history you would have seen the manner in which Goebbels manipulated the German people via propaganda, just as Russia is doing to its people. Putin claimed his entrance into east Ukraine / Crimea was based on ethnic Russians being persecuted (which was determined to be a lie). Its the same pretext Nazi's used to invade Poland - staging an incident they created to justify an invasion.

No ethnic Russians were being discriminated against no more than it was the polish military who attacked Nazi Germany.

infiltrating Crimea, seizing it then holding a referendum is EXACTLY the same method hitler used.

I can keep going....




originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
and while were at this childishness we should just go ahead and compare the US and EU to nazi Germany for supporting Nazis in Ukraine, controlling media, manipulating public opinion, attacking other countries by use of false flags and accusations, controlling other countries politics, and etc.


There are no NAZI's in the Ukraine government. There are however 55+ Nazi / nationalist socialists in the Russian Duma. Russia exercises state control over their media - The US does not.
Russian media is owned by the state - Us media is not.




originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
and leave the separatists to their fate? you can judge him all you god damn want, i dont care. he should be more agressive in helping the separatists. again dude i believe that peoples lives and their freedom matters over all other things. no matter what the UN deems as illegal can make me stop caring about PEOPLE.


Absolutely. The separatists are nothing more than Russian terrorists sent by Moscow to seize territory from Ukraine. Ukraine has a right to defend itself. The rebels have the choice of dying for a lost cause or going home.

Apparently you don't believe in freedoms since you are supporting a person who has systematically stripped rights from the Russian people. I would go to Moscow and protest but I have to get a permit and since I don't agree with the Russian government I wont get one.

I would get labeled as a foreign agent, just like russian citizens and certain Russian groups have been who refuse to swallow putins cool aid.

That's just it - You don't care about people.

You care about Russians but not anyone else. For evidence of that read your posts on this topic and the arguments you just made.




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


the fact that the investigators initial findings was that they had thought that the plane was hit by a jet cannon and the fact that there was a Ukrainian jet in the same airspace as mh17.


Do you have a source for these claims?


Of course not.. Their goal is not the truth but to blame someone else.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




Might want to ask the gay community about those freedoms you think your people have

you must have missed where i said something to that fact.




Oh and how about those who blog and their freedoms that your beloved president has taken from them. And if you protest you are branded a foreign agent...great freedoms.

just because you have to register with the government to blog does not mean you cant blog. you do realize that right? and no you are branded a foreign agent if they suspect you are a foreign agent, dont even bring protests into this. the russian people can protest all they want, they run it by the government, they are given the right to protest in a lawful manner and the protest happens right on god damn time. again you dont know anything. you just latch on to whatever fits your bias and you hang with it no matter how far out of proportion your idea of the subject is.




As far as East Ukraine...Russia has decided they want nothing to do with bringing them into the Russian family.

i think its a good idea, i never claimed that splitting ukraine would be a good idea. the east needs to stay a part of ukraine but they demand autonomy, and they will get it. look at you twisting facts to fit you hateful bias again.



But your qualified to judge the US and tell me how bad they are...you know what that is called right?

yeah why am i not? i watch my tax dollars fund programs that im not even told about. i see the US causing war usually based on false allegations, false flags, and oil mostly. i see my freedoms slowly taken out of my hands, i cant even fly without getting my dick touched anymore. i see the intelligence community taking part in terrorist attacks. i see people working multiple jobs not even making enough to pay their bills. i see education falling year after year.

i know plenty about the US. ive even tried sympathizing with the new world order people. i try to think that maybe that the human races best interests are in their mind. but i don't think that's the case. the government in this country could care less about people and freedom. they only care about self interests and human lives and liberty take a backseat to those interests. america is supposed to mean something. and its been infiltrated and corrupted.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




bro are you really referring to nulands call? are you joking right now? what evidence is there that it was cut together?


And you have proof that the separatists calls were cut together, because other than Russian media there is no proof.

But feel free to produce the evidence they were?

And what evidence is there that it wasn't?



as for the twitter thing yes, i was trying to make a point when i told zaphod "you're right. dont even know why i brought it up"


The point that needs to be made is that it can't be fine for one side to use a certain source and not the other, which is something not understood by some members here.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:42 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

well if you simply BELIEVE that anything russia presents is a lie and everything the west presents is the truth what am i supposed to say to you?




The point that needs to be made is that it can't be fine for one side to use a certain source and not the other, which is something not understood by some members here.

and im gonna go out on a limb and say that if i go though your history i would find that you have used the twitter "evidence" to push your viewpoint.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




you must have missed where i said something to that fact.


Nope, just trying to make sure others don't forget that fact.



yeah why am i not?


And what makes you so qualified, as you are just sitting in Ohio typing on your computer just as the rest of us are?



i see the US causing war usually based on false allegations, false flags, and oil mostly.


Well then if it's oil why have I been paying near 3.00 a gallon until just recently?

If your talking about Iraq...what lies as they did find WMD there, so they weren't fake allegations.

If your talking about 9/11 what proof is there it was a false flag, and you can provide concrete evidence of it?



i see my freedoms slowly taken out of my hands, i cant even fly without getting my dick touched anymore.


What freedoms are being taken away...can you not go out and do what you want with who you want, can you not use the internet to read and do what you want on it, so what freedoms are talking about?

And if you don't like the security at the airport...take a bus, or drive you have that freedom.



i know plenty about the US.


And so do many others...in fact probably more than you do, what does that have to do with anything?



the government in this country could care less about people and freedom. they only care about self interests and human lives and liberty take a backseat to those interests. america is supposed to mean something. and its been infiltrated and corrupted.


And you just described the RUssian government and what they think about their citizens...The US is far from being that way.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

yeah but its your subjective opinion that its a lie. for instance the satellite imagery that Russia put forward against Ukraine in regards to mh17 im sure you think its a lie. but the picture the west put forward of a single buk launcher, owned by either side, with one missile missing im sure you believe belonged to the separatists. because they told you so.

and the threat of ethnic Russians being persecuted was a very viable stance. when members of Ukraine's government talk about filtration camps what are people supposed to think?

just because methods used are similar to Hitlers does not make Putin Hitler. for instance the united states has used soviet strategies in countries all over the world. most notable would be UKRAINE just last year. setting up ngos and staging coups is something the soviets taught the US.

US media isnt officially owned by the state, but anyone that can read between the lines can tell the state isnt even owned by the state. its owned by a conglomerate of corporations and super rich people all working together to further their goals.



The separatists are nothing more than Russian terrorists sent by Moscow to seize territory from Ukraine.

well its funny that most were born in Ukraine and have lived their entire lives in Ukraine. for example the DPR was founded by a Ukrainian back in 2005. just because Russians are involved does not mean the people of Ukraine don't share common interests.

and yeah you can get a permit and protest all you want. whats the problem with that? its a civil way to do things. imagine if the US did the same thing, instead they roll the military police out as soon as protests start and start arresting people. who gets arrested at a government sanctioned Russian protest? the answer is no one.

i only care about the Russian people because i support the separatists in their right to self determination? what logic does that follow. i heard about Texans talking about seceding and i got excited for them. i care about everyone's freedom. im against the western government not the people. i AM the people. ive lived in america basically my whole life. i believe deeply in what this country was founded on and i see those values are no longer in effect because of the selfish self interests of the super rich that run this place.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




well if you simply BELIEVE that anything russia presents is a lie and everything the west presents is the truth what am i supposed to say to you?


See that's where you fail to really understand things, because I have said the problems I have with Russian media is their way they try to present the conflict in Ukraine as them being innocent victims and it's all the west's fault when it is just the opposite of that.

And you can check I have never said the western media is always right, which is why you have to research before posting.



and im gonna go out on a limb and say that if i go though your history i would find that you have used the twitter "evidence" to push your viewpoint.


Go right ahead as I never said I haven't. And if I did it was surely researched before I did use it.

Thought you had something there didn't you.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




Nope, just trying to make sure others don't forget that fact.

redundant.



And what makes you so qualified, as you are just sitting in Ohio typing on your computer just as the rest of us are?

well it could be that i look at things objectively. i dont believe in nationalism. and i put freedom and human life above all else. i think this sort of enlightenment at least puts me a cut above most.




Well then if it's oil why have I been paying near 3.00 a gallon until just recently?

why does that matter? what are you even trying to get at. please reply im genuinely curious.



If your talking about Iraq...what lies as they did find WMD there, so they weren't fake allegations.

i wasnt talking about iraq, but they did invade mostly because saddam was going to start selling oil in euros. ghadaffi was trying to coalesce a group of north african nations to sell oil in a new currency called the gold dinar. russia has obviously be trying to get away from the dollar for a long time.

come on. there are plenty of dictators, yet america only seems to care about them when the dollar is threatened. that's so weird isn't it?



If your talking about 9/11 what proof is there it was a false flag, and you can provide concrete evidence of it?

nothing you would believe since you cant think for yourself. but yes there is more than enough evidence. like the laws of physics.



What freedoms are being taken away...can you not go out and do what you want with who you want, can you not use the internet to read and do what you want on it, so what freedoms are talking about?

uhh well theres the issue of gun rights. theres the partiot act. there's all the orders obama signed. you can barely protest without getting the # kicked out of you by police. the so called "Free market" is absolutely regulated. every citizen is spied on by the NSA(freedom of privacy). government documents are redacted and withheld("freedom of information"ahahahaha what a joke) media is completely controlled(thank god for the internet). so on and so forth. funny how you keep accusing me of not doing research and then it turns out you dont know about basic problems the people of america are all pretty much aware of.



And so do many others...in fact probably more than you do, what does that have to do with anything?

i was replying to what you had said, thats what it has to do with.

what does other people knowing more than me about america have to do with anything?




And you just described the RUssian government and what they think about their citizens...The US is far from being that way.

think this falls into the "dumb opinion" category.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




for instance the satellite imagery that Russia put forward against Ukraine in regards to mh17 im sure you think its a lie.


Because it is...you don't seriously believe it was real do you?



for example the DPR was founded by a Ukrainian back in 2005.


Surely you have something that backs this claim?



i only care about the Russian people because i support the separatists in their right to self determination?


So you don't care about those Ukranians who aren't in the same mindset that the separatists have, because there are many in that region that don't.



i care about everyone's freedom.


Not if your backing what Russia is doing in Ukraine, because Russia is keeping the Ukranians freedom from them by doing what they have done there.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

ugh you are impossible. stop talking to me. your like a child. even though we dont agree Xcathdra at least has a brain. your just a troll.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

here tsurfer, id like to see you explain this away.




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




well it could be that i look at things objectively.


Or one sided, because if your being objective you wouldn't be agreeing with what Russia is doing in Ukraine.



i wasnt talking about iraq, but they did invade mostly because saddam was going to start selling oil in euros.


Not even close to why it was done. And you said false allegations, so what other conflict are you talking about where the US went into a country militarily like they did with Iraq?



nothing you would believe since you cant think for yourself. but yes there is more than enough evidence. like the laws of physics.


So then you really have nothing except what other conspiracy theorists say...gotcha.



uhh well theres the issue of gun rights.


And that has been going on long before either of us were even born...not a good argument.



theres the partiot act.


And that has affected you personally how, because ever since it was enacted it hasn't changed my life one bit as I still get to do what I want within the confines of the law.



every citizen is spied on by the NSA(freedom of privacy).


And yet if you don't do anything that would cause them to spy on you they aren't. My privacy is still as it was when I was 20 and now I'm 43 and nothing has changed for me. Nor has it changed for my mother, or my grandmother so your argument there isn't really a valid one either.



government documents are redacted and withheld("freedom of information"ahahahaha what a joke) media is completely controlled(thank god for the internet).


That is because some of what may be in those documents are a matter of national security, so tell me do you think you would be able to get half of what you can in the US with the freedom of information act in Russia?


quote]
so on and so forth. funny how you keep accusing me of not doing research and then it turns out you dont know about basic problems the people of america are all pretty much aware of.


Call them as I see them.

And those problems are problems of conspiracy theorists not normal citizens.



i was replying to what you had said, thats what it has to do with.


You tell me as you were the one who said you know about America...I just pointed out that many others do too.



think this falls into the "dumb opinion" category.


And yet it's the truth.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

What is on this video?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




ugh you are impossible. stop talking to me. your like a child. even though we dont agree Xcathdra at least has a brain. your just a troll.


Just what I thought can't debate so call the person a troll...classic.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




here tsurfer, id like to see you explain this away.


So I'm to believe that the sub titles are right and you can prove they are what is being said, because you can add your own subtitles to these videos...you did know that right?

You should look at the rest of this uploaders videos and you will see why I question the subtitles.
edit on 27-1-2015 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason




here tsurfer, id like to see you explain this away.


So I'm to believe that the sub titles are right and you can prove they are what is being said, because you can add your own subtitles to these videos...you did know that right?

You should look at the rest of this uploaders videos and you will see why I question the subtitles.


......smh.

I speak Russian, i understand Russian, the subtitles are accurate.

feign ignorance all you want. hear no evil see no evil speak no evil.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason


feign ignorance all you want. hear no evil see no evil speak no evil.


Also known as the Vladimir Putin scientific method.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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I have a reason why were not paying 3 a gallon right now,and it aint got anything to do with Iraqi oil for those who are insinuating that. Saudi manipulation of supply trying to devalue it on purpose to run th e US out of th e export oil buisness.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: humanityrising

I think the image Russian propaganda paints of the west is designed to affect Russian citizens into believing the US is evil and coming to kill them and that the only salvation they have is Putin.

As for your attempt to split hairs the governments at that time are not the governments in existence today.



People use the term literally loosely these days, but the US literally does the same thing. To the point that their names could be interchangeable in many a sentence. Are we really in denial of the US's corruption, and are we daft enough to think that there is a right or wrong side here?




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