Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neformore

Well done. I see what you did here. Every poster in this thread talking about gun control didn't get it.

I still think they have a right to bring it up even if they are being baited. Put bacon on a hook and your bound to catch something/

a reply to: mikegrouchy

The thread is trying to show everyone the folly of holding a whole group of people responsible for the actions of the few. Namely in regards to Muslims. People cry every day about Muslims not standing up against the extremists (they are, but not relevant here). Yet the same standards aren't applied to say gun owners. In fact, as can be seen in this thread, it makes quite a bit of people upset to make that comparison. So why is it fair to do the same to groups like Muslims in regards to extremism? THAT is what the thread is about.

a reply to: ObjectZero

No, it just shows that the person wasn't thinking carefully about the subject of the thread. The OP even spelled it out at the bottom of the thread by EXPLICITLY saying it was satire.

Here check out these Cracked articles on people who do what the gun nuts in this thread did to the OP:
5 Satirists Attacked by People Who Totally Missed the Point
4 More Satirists Attacked By People Who Missed The Point
3 Modern Satirists Screwed by People Who Didn't Get the Joke

After reading those articles, you may notice a trend with the people who, "didn't get it".

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
Satire or not...For anyone towing the line against citizens owning guns....IMO, the incident in france goes to show how useless the argument is against disarmament of the people in any country....There is no counter debate in my eyes....what would be next? What is the anti-gun movements suggestion on how that issue could have been avoided...? I'm sure I would laugh at it, but I would love to hear it

France has the most privately owned guns of any European nation.

www.gunpolicy.org...

There are 31 guns for every 100 people in France.

Please educate yourself before spouting rhetoric.

RPGs? Full auto AK's?

France is an example of why gun control does not stop these sort of things.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: waynos
And the irony is that each new post pointing out with furious anger why it is a stupid analogy, reinforces why it was a perfect analogy to draw.

The pro gun advocates are so righteous in their indignation that they are blind to the satire and unable to spot that the idiocy of the message IS the message and IS the satire.

It hit the bullseye.

Bull____ what? SATIRE requires more than a single subject, it needs something else to juxtapose or make comparisons with. Spree killings, the 2nd Amendment and gun owners are mentioned in the OP. Now, where does the OP mention Muslims? Nowhere. There have been plenty of spree killings recently, not just in Paris but in NYC and Nigeria. Since the OP does not specify we have nothing to compare gun owners with.

It is a rant, misplaced in the GWOT with a satirical disclaimer slapped on it that serves no purpose other than to alleviate the OP from taking a position on the subject. It would be far less disingenuous to simply write an anti-gun thread and plainly make it so.

The biggest irony here is that anyone thinks this is satire.

Agreed. "Satire" has a bit of a specific definition and, even so, deep political positions are often taken and promulgated using satire. It is the object of said satire and how it is done that demonstrates the actual agenda. I find it amusing that those who say "you guys don't get it" are actually the ones who don't get it.

What I think is ridiculous is how the OP managed to create a forum gang against defenders of the second amendment.

Nef you literally created a posse of people insulting the intelligence of others by way of this thread.

Your "disclaimer " is evidence of this.

I find this whole thing disingenuous, evidenced further by the comments seen by other posters who simply can't see why people would view this as trolling under the guise of "satire" by a member of ATS staff.

I hate it when people bring up "you're a mod you shouldn't post that", but in this case it would be well deserved.

originally posted by: NavyDoc


France is an example of why gun control does not stop these sort of things.

Please dont turn a tragedy like this into a pro gun rant.

Even in the states I dont see people walking around with RPG's or full autos. Sure they may have a concealed hand gun but Im guessing very few people go to the shops or work equipped like they are in a war zone. And quite frankly I would not not want to ever visit a country were to be safe you have to arm you self s with military equipment every time you step out doors.

There is no evidence to suggest those being legal in France would have stopped what happened.

# happens.

Control likely did to caused or would have stopped what happened.

originally posted by: projectvxn
What I think is ridiculous is how the OP managed to create a forum gang against defenders of the second amendment.

Im not against the second amendment. Hell I dont live in the states so you can have what ever amendment you like.
Hell I own a gun.

originally posted by: projectvxn
I find this whole thing disingenuous, evidenced further by the comments seen by other posters who simply can't see why people would view this as trolling under the guise of "satire" by a member of ATS staff.

I don't think the majority of us were mocking those who saw the satire and disagreed with it or called it out.

Who we are laughing at is the people who didn't see the satire full stop and thought this was a pure anti gun rant.



Plus it is very funny how there has been a more violent response to this thread by SOME gun owners than the ATS Muslims have had over the Mohamed cartoons which I find disturbing over a "tool" which many of you claim a gun is.


I have a legally owned gun and I honestly don't give a # anymore than I would if the Op was about hammers owners.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: NavyDoc


France is an example of why gun control does not stop these sort of things.

Please dont turn a tragedy like this into a pro gun rant.

Even in the states I dont see people walking around with RPG's or full autos. Sure they may have a concealed hand gun but Im guessing very few people go to the shops or work equipped like they are in a war zone. And quite frankly I would not not want to ever visit a country were to be safe you have to arm you self s with military equipment every time you step out doors.

There is no evidence to suggest those being legal in France would have stopped what happened.

# happens.

Control likely did to caused or would have stopped what happened.

A radical change in France's immigration policy would have helped, 20 or so years ago.


As for the other, just responding to the anti-gun types.

a reply to: projectvxn
Kinda like how "forum gangs" form around muslim bashing? You can literally open up an antimuslim thread, and an antigun thread side by side, and see they operate the same way. Antigun folks bash the constution as outdate crap, antimuslims bash the quran as outdated crap. Both will use cherry-picked quotes, flawed statistics, and outright lies to try and prove their stance. Etc etc.

The same can really be said about any stance. Pro or anti everything, the same stuff happens. I believe it's called cognitive dissonence, something each and every one of us are guilty of. No, I am a dumbass lol. It's confirmation bias I am thinking of, not cognitive dissonance.

I don't claim to know why nef chose guns, but I figure it is because a whole lot of people that bash the # out of muslims here, also tend to be strong pro 2nd ammendment for some reason. Obviously not all pro 2nd people, as this thread proves, lumping people together is retarded.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: projectvxn
Kinda like how "forum gangs" form around muslim bashing? You can literally open up an antimuslim thread, and an antigun thread side by side, and see they operate the same way.

This - 1000%

The Muslim bashers feel they are justified - after all, look at all the heinous acts committed using Islam.

The gun advocate bashers feel they are justified - after all, look at all the heinous acts committed using guns.

When in reality, it is not the religion and it is not the guns that are the problem. People are the problem.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: projectvxn
Kinda like how "forum gangs" form around muslim bashing? You can literally open up an antimuslim thread, and an antigun thread side by side, and see they operate the same way.

This - 1000%

The Muslim bashers feel they are justified - after all, look at all the heinous acts committed using Islam.

The gun advocate bashers feel they are justified - after all, look at all the heinous acts committed using guns.

When in reality, it is not the religion and it is not the guns that are the problem. People are the problem.

And that's true, it is a people problem. Judgement by the group is a pretty ignorant thing to do, IMHO. Although I disagree with Islam as a religion (okay all religion) and Islam does seem to have a large amount of "issues" amongst it's followers, you can't blame a guy in Malaysia for the actions of a guy in France just because they share a mutual religion. If he supported the terrorism like Irish Catholics in the US supported the IRA with money, sure, I can see that but not simply because they have the same label.

I've had my life saved by a Muslim when other Muslims were shooting at me. How could I possibly lump my 'terp in with those other guys when his actions were in radical opposition?

a reply to: projectvxn


Ummm...it's obviously a troll bait thread...pathetically so...childishly so...It's also very funny...

The funny part though are the responses by some that are preening in their self elevated, enlightened delusion about the..."lowbrow" comments of the troglodytes that..."just didn't get it"...

I think everyone of you that are...braying...about your superior intellect's...are simply prancing around like the court fool...
Ha...ha...ha...as you point your fingers and snicker...never realizing that your the ones wearing the pointy shoes and funny hat...

The most hilarious part of this whole thread is that you all...including the OP even consider this to be satire...as evidenced by the..."disclaimer"...

That's the real joke here.............................None so blind as the self deluded...








YouSir

a reply to: NavyDoc

The method chosen shows the underlying bias. It wasn't that clever.

It took this many pages later and how many still think this is about guns?

:-)

I just read your last post in this thread Navy - glad to see some folks are finally talking about the real point of this thread. That was a good post

The theme for this past week has been murder, mayhem, ideology and satire. I think this thread has been amazing to watch

Some people seem to not like so much being the butt of a little fun-having. Some people seem upset that one group ganged up on another group - and would not be taken seriously. Some people clung to their position even when it was quite obviously wrong - enough said about that one. And then, some people refused to participate in a real back and forth - even when the actual question was asked directly

Honest to Betsy - this thread kinda sums up what happens here at ATS on a daily basis - and it's not a left/right, conservative/liberal - religious/atheist thing - it's pretty universal

Well - kinda :-)

I loved this thread - and I thought it was very clever

a reply to: NavyDoc

A radical change in France's immigration policy would have helped, 20 or so years ago.

Out of the vast numbers of immigrants now living in France - it only took a very small handful to pull this off. Who are these people - and why are these people? Religion is just a decoy and it provides an amazing kind of camouflage

Immigration is not the problem - it's the radicals

This is not a problem that can be solved by the numbers. Deportation, stricter immigration policies, more intense identification and paperwork, forcing people to give up the hijab...bigotry, ostracization, constant criticism which borders on badgering on the one end and becomes persecution on the other - none of this will fix this problem. Guns won't solve it - drones won't solve it - prisons, torture - sanctions - none of these things are going to make this world safe from the terrorists

All of these things guarantee that the world will not be free from these people - ever. The people who are going to pay the highest price for the crimes these terrorists commit are Muslims

France abused North Africans in a thousand different ways - immigration served their purpose up to a point. It's a different world now than it was then, and until we realize that this world is either going to blend the easy way - or it's going to do it the hard way - there will be no peace

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: NavyDoc

The method chosen shows the underlying bias. It wasn't that clever.

It took this many pages later and how many still think this is about guns?

:-)

I just read your last post in this thread Navy - glad to see some folks are finally talking about the real point of this thread. That was a good post

The theme for this past week has been murder, mayhem, ideology and satire. I think this thread has been amazing to watch

Some people seem to not like so much being the butt of a little fun-having. Some people seem upset that one group ganged up on another group - and would not be taken seriously. Some people clung to their position even when it was quite obviously wrong - enough said about that one. And then, some people refused to participate in a real back and forth - even when the actual question was asked directly

Honest to Betsy - this thread kinda sums up what happens here at ATS on a daily basis - and it's not a left/right, conservative/liberal - religious/atheist thing - it's pretty universal

Well - kinda :-)

I loved this thread - and I thought it was very clever

Meh. What is fun loving to some may be condescending and unnecessary to another.

One can address the thread topic and still be critical as to how it was presented and still be reasonable, however.

The gun community IS doing something. They have been begging the gun control crowd to TAKE DOWN THE STUPID SIGNS ADVERTISING THAT SITTING DUCKS (No guns, weapons allowed) are in our schools, theaters, and restaurants.

If you build it (Killing Fields) THEY will come. STOP the field of Dreams. Thank you for your support.

a reply to: Yule C Mann
I didn't see that on prime-time news, so it didn't happen.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Meh. What is fun loving to some may be condescending and unnecessary to another.

One can address the thread topic and still be critical as to how it was presented and still be reasonable, however.

Pretty much sums up free speech - satire - and all the rest of it

:-)

The disclaimer shouldn't have even been needed...it's pretty clear what he was getting at, and drawing a parallel with...and even WITH the disclaimer, people still don't get it...people have no ability to think and interpret with subtlety...