Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

originally posted by: NavyDoc


Firstly, pointing something out is neither being irate nor throwing a temper tantrum.

Secondly, if he used a different example, say gay men not protesting pedophiles enough, and a gay man pointed out how bigoted the example used was, would he get the same negative "STFU" response?

But being gay is part of one self. comparing a gun to being gay is not the same as comparing a gun to say a hammer.

We are talking just a tool here. A inanimate object.

If the OP had started the thread about hammer owners it would not have got as much blow back I bet. Myself as a hammer owner would not care.



BTW Im a legal owner of UK firearms (hunting rifle). I honestly don't care, I can say the link between being a gun owner or Muslim is a logical comparison but I find said thread amusing not insulting.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Maybe you should my posts in their entirety and think on it.
I suspected satire when I saw the post title before I ever clicked on the thread and guessed at the target. I was correct on both counts.

a reply to: butcherguy

The OP doesn't shame gun owners at all. It is saying that asking gun owners to apologize every time there's a shooting spree is absurd and then it's asking why can't the absurdity be seen in asking Muslims to apologize for Islamic terrorism.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Half of the IQ bell curve is people who are below average intelligence. You do the math.

a reply to: butcherguy

So why are you arguing the gun angle? Surely you are aware that I've stood toe to toe with you against gun prohibitionists in support of the Second Amendment? So it's not like I'm against you on the gun issue. I'm just pointing out that this OP isn't about guns.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: butcherguy

The OP doesn't shame gun owners at all. It is saying that asking gun owners to apologize every time there's a shooting spree is absurd and then it's asking why can't the absurdity be seen in asking Muslims to apologize for Islamic terrorism.

Read the thread, Kali....
Gun owners are shamed in it from very early on.
I have stated that it was not the target of the satire.
I believe the gun owners were used with an intention outside of the satire.
Why can't you people comprehend this very simple thing???

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: butcherguy

So why are you arguing the gun angle? Surely you are aware that I've stood toe to toe with you against gun prohibitionists in support of the Second Amendment? So it's not like I'm against you on the gun issue. I'm just pointing out that this OP isn't about guns.

I am saying that the OP used gun owners groups in his satiric construction for a reason. He even stated it in his disclaimer. Did you read it?

Here is the part:

I can guarantee that probably 50% of the posters who reply to this OP will not read this disclaimer.

This was the plan from the start in my opinion.

a reply to: butcherguy

This disclaimer?

Disclaimer : This post is topical satire. Its aimed at trying to stimulate some deeper thinking on a particular subject. Its not meant as a slight against anyone personally. Its a parallel. I can guarantee that probably 50% of the posters who reply to this OP will not read this disclaimer.

How does that insinuate that he has a gripe to pick against gun owners? Please enlighten me. Looks like a pretty good prediction though.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Here is the part:

I can guarantee that probably 50% of the posters who reply to this OP will not read this disclaimer.

This was the plan from the start in my opinion.

That just highlights that the OP thinks that 50% of the people who will read the OP aren't intelligent enough to recognize satire. He has a point. By the law of averages, 50% of the population should be below the national IQ average. I see nothing to confirm that this is about gun ownership though.

a reply to: butcherguy

Even if he did use gun owners for a reason, so what? He's still saying that it's absurd to blame gun owners for mass shootings, or to make them responsible for stopping mass shootings. How is that insulting gun owners?

I think the reason he made that statement about 50% is he knows how strongly people feel about their 2nd amendment rights. They feel so strongly that as soon as they see the title of the OP, they are going to start reacting - which they did. So what he said was simply a fact - not an insult.

a reply to: butcherguy

I have. Maybe you should re-read it. Something is short-circuiting in your brain between reading the words on the screen and interpreting correctly what they mean because you are inventing something that isn't there.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: waynos
Obfuscating?
I posted how i felt about Muslims early in the thread, so everyone is not obfuscating.

That being the case, you'll understand the sensibilities of Muslim members reading anti-Islam hate posts after every atrocity.

I understood it well before this thread was started.

Then the thread wasn't aimed at you, was it. Just because you don't like the analogy doesn't invalidate the message it gives out. I'm neither for or against guns myself, I've been sufficiently educated by gun owners on this site to see its not nearly so clear cut in America as Brits tend to think, however I was not drawn in that direction by this thread at all, until those who started posted about guns and an anti gun agenda brought it front and centre. Sensibilities again, obscuring the satirical message that I was thinking about when I read the OP. Well done.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: butcherguy

Even if he did use gun owners for a reason, so what? He's still saying that it's absurd to blame gun owners for mass shootings, or to make them responsible for stopping mass shootings. How is that insulting gun owners?

I think the reason he made that statement about 50% is he knows how strongly people feel about their 2nd amendment rights. They feel so strongly that as soon as they see the title of the OP, they are going to start reacting - which they did. So what he said was simply a fact - not an insult.

Look at his post history regarding guns.
And if I want to make my opinion known, and people want to 'set me straight because they don't understand... "So what"?

originally posted by: neformore
Gun owners and advocates of the second amendment.

You believe in a right to bear arms - namely that individuals have the right to own a weapon if they wish to.

The constituton of the USA specifically covers such in the second amendment, and other countries round the world also have similar laws allowing the posession of weapons.

In the US, gun advocacy is rife with various pressure groups and organisations exist solely with the viewpoint of protecting the right to bear arms - the NRA comes to mind but there are, I believe, smaller groups.

The problem is that people with guns kill people. And the gun community isn't doing anything about it.

People with guns don't kill people. People that want to kill people, kill people. I own a gun and I haven't killed anyone.

When was the last time you saw a mass rally by gun advocates such as the NRA protesting a spree killing?

There isn't any evidence that the gun community isn't doing anything about it - such activists may very well be among the common protesters and you would never know it. The fact that they aren't out waving their pro-gun agenda about, should speak to the morality of such a crowd. Often times, it has very little to do with guns - contrary to what many would like you to believe. It's actually almost never about the guns; but more the people and the reason.

When was the last time a gun owner apologised to you personally for the actions of others of their ilk?

Depending on your definition of an apology; I may have apologized* on a couple of instances; even if in the very least by expressing severe remorse and dismay that an event took place. But not for my owning a gun. Me owning a gun does not mean that I have any affiliation or support for anyone who would kill without reason or remorse.

Why haven't the majority of gun advocates stood up and done something about the spree killings, weeded out these extremist spree killers before they've struck and got rid of them?

Why have Muslims not stood up and weeded out the extremists among them? My thought would be because it is impossible. If they have a reason to exist, they will exist - whether that reason is good or not.

When will gun owners reform their views that everyone has the right to bear a weapon, and change the writen advocacy of such, and their enshrined laws? They obviously don't care or they'd have done something about it by now. They probably secretly support the spree killings don't they?

Why aren't the gun community doing anything?

 

Disclaimer : This post is topical satire. Its aimed at trying to stimulate some deeper thinking on a particular subject. Its not meant as a slight against anyone personally. Its a parallel. I can guarantee that probably 50% of the posters who reply to this OP will not read this disclaimer.

Oh and you're sneaky bud... I didn't read it until I started my reply. Should maybe put your disclaimer at the top of your post - I got 3/4 in and had started composing a reply in my head already - which means it's time for me to start typing, but also would have been very different if you had approached it differently. S&F For making people think though - hope it gets through.

a reply to: butcherguy

Is he or is he not saying in this thread that it is absurd to blame all gun owners for the actions of the mass shooters?

What else do you think he is saying in THIS thread, not in his previous posts on previous threads?

In one respect the thread has failed. We are now all talking about the thread itself,rather than the absurdity of blaming an entire culture/movement/collective for the insanely criminal acts of a few.

Which is a pity, for it was a very good post.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Maverick7
I would say that a person from Britain where they have given up their rights to bear even pointed sticks has little business even starting a post about Right-to-Bear-Arms. The Second Amendment doesn't even apply to such persons.

Perhaps this person would be better off speaking to their own legislatures about creating a thug culture who can now prey on a disarmed populace?

Just posting a hypothetical. You know, just being tropically satirical.

Ding ding ding we have another one!



Maybe stop with the "dey took ourz Gunz derp derp derp" indignation and reread the op as it was nothing about gun control

Nope, it was TOTALLY satirical, a completely tongue-in-cheek comment, and guess what? You missed that part because I used the words RTBA and 2A. See how that works?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: butcherguy
Satire is used to shame a segment of the population.

The shame wasn't aimed at gun owners, it was aimed at Islamophobes. It used gun owners to paint the picture, quite well, I might add. Direct First and Second Amendment comparisons.

As a troll thread, this worked well to shame two different groups.
Islamophobes and those that support the 2nd Amendment. The satire was aimed at the Islamophobes.... The troll thread worked to shame gun owners. I guess you can't comprehend what I am saying. Maybe someday you will.

I think it's great that you feel shame as a gun owner, but don't blame the OP for your feelings, those are your and yours alone.

The main difference between gun owners apologizing and people expecting Muslims to get up against terrorists is that for one group you have people killing other people by whatever means they use and the other group owning an inanimate object, tool if you will, and some person using the tool to kill other people. Gun owners have nothing to apologize for.

a reply to: neformore
i drink occasionally should i have to apologize because someone gets loaded and kills thirty people in a big car pile up they caused ? NO
shpuld i as a car owner apologize for all the people who die in car crashes every year? NO
should i apologize when my president does something stupid yes because i stupidly voted for him
but you can hold all us people who use our guns,cars , whisky at fault because morons use the same things illegally.