Is focused/one pointedness meditation demonic?

a reply to: Ignatian

Not like my opinion counts, but there is no such thing as the absolute truth. Even 2+2=4 gets a bit mudy, if you examine it closer. Say I'm counting apples 1+1 should be 2, but the first apple has 0,46kg the second 0,51kg So I'm counting two apples, but 0,97kg. The next pair I take a look at are 0,32kg and 0,68kg, exactly 1kg. Maybe I am counting pumpkins, but the point is: everything is relative we only approach an estimated solution, it depends how close you look, or with what you measure, but eventually you realise relativsm is very much needed to crack the riddles this world has to offer. Because your mind set is the oposite of growing and thriving. Stable and comforting, if something would be certain, but it doesn't work. And actaully would hold us back as a species, because then why bother, right? Just lay back it certainly will work somehow, who cares how....

If someone points to an object, and asks, "what is that"?, do you tell them what it weighs? No, you tell them what it IS, ....that's an apple.

A relativist however, will look at it, and call it a pumpkin. No, that's an apple. An objective truth.

I will give you an example why relativism is actually against our nature. If I tell you a bald face lie, it will bother you, irritate you. Why is that? A true relativist shouldn't have any qualms whatsoever if someone lies right to their face. But, it bothers anyone, why is that?



a reply to: Peeple

The patron saint of relativism is Pontius Pilate. Read what that man said pointedly to Jesus' face. He is a relativist's hero.

a reply to: Ignatian

And now I see where you are coming from. Simple mind, huh?
It's okay I could explain to you now, what I ment but, live your lie, you wouldn't grasp reality anyways.

The first reaction to truth, is anger.

Be not afraid, cast your net into deeper water.



a reply to: Peeple

a reply to: Ignatian

I do not fear the Catholic Church, I just recognize that it has no delegated authority from Christ. Nor do I ignore everything you say because you are Catholic. I ignore most of what you say because time and time again you have proven yourself to be filled with religion and incapable of critical thinking.

I interpret the bible as literally as possible, except where it is obviously being poetic, then I use the symbolism to interpret and buttress the literal truth. That is how the Word of God is meant to be interpreted. So, from my point of view, it is the Catholic Church that practices "relativism", since you orient yourself to the will of the Catholic authority rather than the authority of the Word of God. Whenever I point this out, then you whip out your circular logic: "Jesus established the Catholic tradition, therefore the Catholic tradition is the will of God". The only problem with this logic is that it is historically inaccurate. Jesus established the CHURCH, not the Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic political system is build on a handfull of distorted interpretations that cannot be corroborated in the scriptures.

I study the bible objectively. Im not perfect, but it has shown promising results.

Well, all that aside, you actually do bow to the authority of The Catholic Church when you read The Bible that The Catholic Church approved. This ain't Religeon, this is fact. You, of course, will ignore that, because your closed mind refuses to admit it is wrong.

The Catholic Church, has no authority given by Jesus? Jesus didn't start His Church.? What kind of scenario have you dreamed up to counter the literal AND symbolic meaning of Mathew 16? "The Church" was referred to as The Catholic Church for the first time around the end of the first century. Ignatius of Antioch, writing in AD 107. "Where the bishop is present, there is The Catholic Church". This is the first written, historical use of the term used to describe the church started by Jesus. It certainly was in widespread use before that time. We were all Catholics then, a good 1500 years before the Protestant Deformation.

And we're still Catholics now. Praise The Lord!


a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: Rtardx

I hear this kind of thing all of the time, but to me, if you read any books on early meditation, be it Jewish or otherwise, the problem is that if you are not sleep, you are actually taking somewhat control over involuntary breathing consciously if you master meditation, could you somehow interfere with that process so that the involuntary part would not kick back in were you to get "trapped" in between conscious and unconscious and possibly actually die, or what some would say die in your sleep where your breathing stops.

To me astral travel etc, is purely hacking the cosmic umbilical cord that you are always tethered to, subconsciously, all you would be doing is traveling outside of the physical body by that cord, until physical death you remain tethered and can temporarily experience what it is to manifest your conscious simultaneously outside of the physical body, like I said, it is merely a hack to peek at the inevitable end state of death, just like a near death experience, just my own opinion and probably never the full experience one would truly have at death since the physical body is tethered.

If you believe in demons then I am not sure what to think about that aspect, but it is well documented through the ages that you can encounter certain beings, whether you want to label them as demons, I can't give you advice on that part, when I say documented I mean, yogis and very well experienced meditation experts, magi, that have 24 hours in a day to do it and probably did not have all of today's external distractions to travel within, that's who I would truly pose that question to, not some new agers that merely dabble in a yoga studio a few hours a week and have no real concept of what you are actually doing if you were to successfully exit the body in an astral travel event.

originally posted by: orbitbaby
Your exercising a muscle when you practice meditation.

That's an interesting perspective. Which muscle are we exercising?

a reply to: Ignatian

I already addressed Matt 16 in the thread about the Rosery. You participated in that thread. Im not fond of repeating myself, so you can go back and review that data if you ilke.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Rtardx

When I said maybe, it depends on what you focus on...

If it's floral scenery or the crashing waves of the Pacific, you should be fine...

If it's a Bohemian Grove meeting or a Nike Sweatshop in China... Demonic interference is always a possibility...

Lol..

Yes, I remember, it was yet another instance where you insert your own relativist interpretation into scripture, to fit your preconceived, ill conceived notions. Totally fringe, totally unscriptural.

Jesus said what he meant, and meant what he said. And you deny Him. Take a long look at the many other places in the bible where the rock metaphor is utilized. As you re-read them, keep Peter, the first head of the church, in the back of your mind. It makes these passages much more meaningful.

Jesus is the new Moses. Moses strikes the rock and water pours forth abundantly. Wait for it, wait for it!....nah, just think about it. :-)

You are my brother in Christ. Peace


a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: boymonkey74

I think this is a good simple instruction for Buddhist meditation:
www.accesstoinsight.org...

Hey OP...here's my take on your question about focusing while meditating....Seems the thread is getting derailed...

This may be a little long so I apologize for that...

I've been meditating for about 2 years now. If you haven't figured it out yet, everyone has their own style of meditation. IMO there really isn't just one way. It's what ever works for you. Most likely you will read a lot of different techniques and end up mixing it all together into your own style anyway.

Having said that, I do a focused meditation...or phasing...or forced focus. There's a style similar in India, but I forget the name of it.

Generally, I do two kinds of meditation. First I may do 30 minutes of just finding an object about 10 or 20 feet away and just focus on it, or stare at it...without blinking or moving my eye's or my focus. It's harder than you may realize.
After a few minutes things start getting distorted and wavy looking...seeing energy in the air, moving forms in my peripheral vision. If you get in the zone the right way, you may start seeing splotches of hypnogogic colors or dark splotches...follow it through and don't freak out...there's more on the other side of that experience.

The Indian fellow I was reading about says that if you can stop your eye's from seeing, you can stop your mind. It's like going into a stare, when you were a kid...staring off into the wild blue and not seeing anything, except what's in your mind's eye. In effect, you are seeing without looking. And when successful you will see that if you can stop looking your mind stops as well.

For me this works well because I can't shut off my mind otherwise. I have learned to stare and not see which puts me into a deep meditative state. I've seen random visions with my eye's wide open, even if just for 30 seconds or so. Along with this, I can clearly see my mental state improve...more clarity, self confidence, sharper memory, enlightenment on issues that I've had questions about...that kind of thing.

Ever look at one of those pictures that looks like static, but really has a 3d image that pops out if you focus the right way? It's very much like that. And I believe there's more to that in reality than realized...as in, we overlook much of what is right in front of us because our perception is weak. Just like in one of those posters...there's a 3d picture hidden inside all of that 'static' looking designs, but you have to change your perception or focus to see it...What else is around us all the time that we just pass by or look over....like the dirty window on a car that you just ignore and look 'through'.

I also meditate with my eye's closed, but do the same thing...stare at the back of my eyelids until I start seeing colors, which turns into vortex's and imagery. More recently I've been experiencing vibrations and energy pulses in my head and body, and at the moment I'm feeling slight vibrations in my pelvic bone...without meditating...so not sure what's up with that. It's like having my cell phone on vibrate and stuck between my legs I've suspected a possible pre kundalini thingy coming on, but not sure if that's what it is...AND not sure if I want to go in that direction.

If you end up getting into meditation please do a lot of reading...from ALL sources and find something that works for you. Read about the pitfalls of a kundalini rising...if you aren't prepared.

I think many people start off on this journey, unprepared or unlearned and have had some bad experiences along the way...most important is to clear you heart of any evil...strive to be good to everyone and do good deeps. Service to others....not service to self.

Your beliefs in yourself and others and definitely have a positive or negative effect.

Wishing you well.

a reply to: Rtardx

It shouldn't have any negative consequences with your psyche, however I think the main concern with a focused meditation is what to focus on. You could use the chakras, but they can lead to serious issues at times, since seeing as to how you'd just work on cognition with little trouble.

Although from my experience, most meditation try to focus on points in the body instead of objects, like chakras, or the movement of the belly unless religious figures are somehow involved. The belly focus helps, cause instead of focusing on the head, all concentration goes to the belly without straining the mind, which is great if one has anger issues since it helps with temperment.

All in all, you should be good as long as things like disturbing or rogue thoughts don't distract you.

a reply to: phinubian

No, the body will look after itself as it does every night when we sleep. There are different types of meditation but I aim to observe not control my breathing, Once I am deep enough I try to let go of that last contact to the body (observing breath) so there are no distractions. Breathing continues but I cannot perceive it.

When you meditate and focus on a point, you are channeling electrical energy from your nervous system:

You can increase resistance (smaller pipe) and increase voltage (higher pressure) and focus energy into a small point (whatever that point may be). You can also reduce resistance (larger pipe) and lower voltage (lower pressure). In the first example you would be focusing on where the energy is going, and in the second you would be trying to focus on where it is coming from.

Importantly, your experience depends upon how much energy you have (current).

You can see it scientifically instead of spiritually.

a reply to: Ignatian

I feel pitty for you, no anger.

And I will pray for you. I will pray that you and all others who buy into the false promises of mumbo-jumbo, secular, new age meditation, finds the Truth in Jesus Christ.

For a real, honest, fruitful meditation, I obviously recommend Ignatian Prayer. Now, THAT'S real meditation.


a reply to: Peeple

a reply to: Ignatian

in the apostolic succession, directly in a line from Saint Peter

You conveniently forget that there were 2 popes sitting on the throne a few hundred years back. So much for a "unique" line of succession