Sharing Heaven with Child Molesters?

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: Entreri06

Im pretty sure that there is NO heaven and that anything religion based is highly wrong. So wrong in fact that the people who actually believe in it are and should be considered "mental" in it true meaning

Ya know amigo, I don't think anyone really does believe... I mean they say they do.... But I don't think they really do....

If people REALLy believed, they would act like it 24,7. There would be no sin. No one would cheat on there wife or beat there kids (technically not a sin...i know, crazy right) if they new they would burn for all eternity. Hell no one would cheat in there wife (or husband) if they had to put their junk over a candle for 45 sec!!! Let alone there whole body for all eternity.. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy to pretend.. Ostriches with there heads in the sand...

a reply to: Entreri06

If there was no repentance, then there would be no reward, it's that simple. I am not sure why you can't accept that. If they repent, in, if they don't, out. Simple. So no, you will NOT be sharing Heaven with child molesters, you will be sharing Heaven with other repentant children of God.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: Entreri06

If there was no repentance, then there would be no reward, it's that simple. I am not sure why you can't accept that. If they repent, in, if they don't, out. Simple. So no, you will NOT be sharing Heaven with child molesters, you will be sharing Heaven with other repentant children of God.

Ugh.... A child molester could repent too.... And since almost all repent and become born again Christians in jail, the logical conclusion is that there will absolutely be child molesters in heaven... And any of there non christian victims will urn in hell.

It's completely horrible yes, but that's the bible.

originally posted by: Entreri06

Ugh.... A child molester could repent too.... And since almost all repent and become born again Christians in jail, the logical conclusion is that there will absolutely be child molesters in heaven... And any of there non christian victims will urn in hell.

It's completely horrible yes, but that's the bible.

Don't think it will be a leisurely stroll into the pearly gates...

"...if anyone hurts the conscience of one of these little ones, that believe in me, he had better have been drowned in the depths of the sea, with a mill-stone hung about his neck. Woe to the world, for the hurt done to consciences!"


And don't forget Purgatory!

" If any man has a claim against thee, come to terms there and then, while thou art walking in the road with him; or else it may be that the claimant will hand thee over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and so thou wilt be cast into prison. Believe me, thou shalt not be set at liberty until thou hast paid the last farthing."

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Entreri06

Kinda, I think it's funny how few Christians follow the scripture to it's logical conclusion.
How many preach that all you need is faith in Christ, without realizing that that would apply to the worst of the worst as well.

No, I understand that is the logical conclusion, but at the same time, having reached that state of faith myself. I also understand what changes it brings to you and your life when you get there. Someone who did something heinous and truly and sincerely reaches repentance and grace will not be the same person they were prior to reaching that state, or the same person they were when they did those heinous deeds.

And if God through Christ made the promise that all who call on Him sincerely and in repentance could be saved, then it's very difficult to see Him going back on His word by saying, "Yeah, except for you."

I think there only a few things you can do that are considered irredeemable sins.

Agreed. So that means repentant monsters go to heaven. While say the child they murdered or there parents, assuming they were atheists, Buddhists, Muslim, exc, will burn in hell for all eternity then. Right?


Pretty #ty of the big G!! Horribly egotistical to allow believing in a magic baby to be more important then if you rape children...

It takes belief, and only God measures that. Only God can truly judge a person.

Simply saying the words means nothing.

Before you decide to go off, consider that there are likely a lot of Christians who aren't going to go there, either. I don't even know if what I feel to be that state of faith is sufficient. I only have faith that it is. None of us truly knows. There will be surprises when we get there and see who is and isn't in Heaven.

Now, people of other faiths have belief. Does God consider that sufficient? Who knows? He isn't telling me.

Atheists ... well, even they have a chance if they can live the perfect sinless life. God can accept perfection. So the perfectly good and moral atheist will possibly be fine. There may be some atheists there. Who knows? However, salvation through grace takes faith, and atheists claim they will have none of that ... so good luck with perfection.

a reply to: steamiron



I was having a real world conversation that brought me to this thread.
....read OP.

Was going to say it before reading any replies......scrolled down a bit just to see if anyone said it, page 1.

Trollin' trollin trollin' though the streams are swollen, Keep those doggies roaming. Rawhide!

NEEEXXXXTTTT!!

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: Entreri06

If there was no repentance, then there would be no reward, it's that simple. I am not sure why you can't accept that. If they repent, in, if they don't, out. Simple. So no, you will NOT be sharing Heaven with child molesters, you will be sharing Heaven with other repentant children of God.

Ugh.... A child molester could repent too.... And since almost all repent and become born again Christians in jail, the logical conclusion is that there will absolutely be child molesters in heaven... And any of there non christian victims will urn in hell.

It's completely horrible yes, but that's the bible.

Of course, in a world that increasingly affirms one's personal sexual urges and desires as normal and natural and just a part of you ... how truly likely do you think actual repentance on the part of a child molester is? After all, he or she can't really help whom they're attracted to anymore than a person can help it if they're attracted to a member of the same sex instead of a member of the opposite sex. And before you cry foul, understand that there is a very small but growing movement of psychologists who want to reclassify pedophilia that same way that homosexuality was reclassified. So I don't think you have to worry too much about many remorseful child molesters.

It's not wrong; they were just born that way, and we just need to help them not victimize.That's the line I'm seeing.

a reply to: Entreri06

The way I see it, in the past middle aged men used to marry tween age girls all the time. Many of them were Christian. Heck Joseph was most likely in his late 30's early 40's when he married a 12-14 year old Mary. Does any Christian doubt that they would be sharing heaven with Joseph?

a reply to: Entreri06

That is a good question and did I ask myself this too.. Are we sharing heaven with perverts and the most moraly depraved persons thinkable..?

The only way to maybe "justify" this is philosophize about what a soul is and what the influence is of the body it houses.

You probably know the story about the kind and caring person that suffered a terrible car crash and suffered brain damage. Because certain parts of the brain were damaged this persons personality completely changed... As if it had become a completely different person..

There is a connection between the structure of the brain and howthe 'soul' operates. A good analogy is to compare it with a cd-player. If you imagine the soul to be the disk and the brain the apparatus that reads the disk and give the output to the loudspeakers. If the player has a malfunction you can hear this through the loudspeakers. There is nothing wrong with the disk but because of twisted wiring in the hardware we experiance a screwed-up output.

What if the wiring of someones brain gives him the craving to commit a crime.. Some people just can not help themselves and do not feel responsible or guilty for the crime they commited. The reason for that is because their brains are not wired like most people..

Now that person dies and is released from that screwed up brain... now that person can see everything clearly and feels remorse for what he or she has done...

How should God judge that person..? How should you judge that person?

Of course it will be a complete different story if that soul is outright evil to begin with... I mean also after death.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Entreri06

Ugh.... A child molester could repent too.... And since almost all repent and become born again Christians in jail, the logical conclusion is that there will absolutely be child molesters in heaven... And any of there non christian victims will urn in hell.

It's completely horrible yes, but that's the bible.

Don't think it will be a leisurely stroll into the pearly gates...

"...if anyone hurts the conscience of one of these little ones, that believe in me, he had better have been drowned in the depths of the sea, with a mill-stone hung about his neck. Woe to the world, for the hurt done to consciences!"


And don't forget Purgatory!

" If any man has a claim against thee, come to terms there and then, while thou art walking in the road with him; or else it may be that the claimant will hand thee over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and so thou wilt be cast into prison. Believe me, thou shalt not be set at liberty until thou hast paid the last farthing."

But I guess it's cool if he raped and murdered a "little one" who didn't believe in him then huh???

I even said a non Christian kid..

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: Entreri06

Im pretty sure that there is NO heaven and that anything religion based is highly wrong. So wrong in fact that the people who actually believe in it are and should be considered "mental" in it true meaning

Ya know amigo, I don't think anyone really does believe... I mean they say they do.... But I don't think they really do....

If people REALLy believed, they would act like it 24,7. There would be no sin. No one would cheat on there wife or beat there kids (technically not a sin...i know, crazy right) if they new they would burn for all eternity. Hell no one would cheat in there wife (or husband) if they had to put their junk over a candle for 45 sec!!! Let alone there whole body for all eternity.. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy to pretend.. Ostriches with there heads in the sand...

Some believe and rarely sin, some believe and sin a lot, some don't believe and rarely sin, some don't believe and sin a lot! There are all kinds of people committing all kinds of sins because it is HUMAN NATURE to sin. The test put to the human race is: "can you stop" Can you stop because it is a sin and you know it. Can you stop because you just get the feeling it is wrong.

a reply to: Entreri06

The LAWS of ATTRACTION may be the primary governor of the SOUL/SPIRIT/Internal ENERGIES and their metaphysical or even new physical locations...

Man has tampered much with the the GREAT BOOKS including the bible so we must use instinct to further confirm such OP like questions.

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: steamiron

try adressing the point of the OP

the bible is quite specific and adresses the " faith or works " issue several times

and every single biblical passage is clear :


faith is the only test , works dont count at all

If you have true faith you will also have the works that go along with it. They are inseparable.

James 2:26 Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead, so also faith without works is dead

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Entreri06

Kinda, I think it's funny how few Christians follow the scripture to it's logical conclusion.
How many preach that all you need is faith in Christ, without realizing that that would apply to the worst of the worst as well.

No, I understand that is the logical conclusion, but at the same time, having reached that state of faith myself. I also understand what changes it brings to you and your life when you get there. Someone who did something heinous and truly and sincerely reaches repentance and grace will not be the same person they were prior to reaching that state, or the same person they were when they did those heinous deeds.

And if God through Christ made the promise that all who call on Him sincerely and in repentance could be saved, then it's very difficult to see Him going back on His word by saying, "Yeah, except for you."

I think there only a few things you can do that are considered irredeemable sins.

Agreed. So that means repentant monsters go to heaven. While say the child they murdered or there parents, assuming they were atheists, Buddhists, Muslim, exc, will burn in hell for all eternity then. Right?


Pretty #ty of the big G!! Horribly egotistical to allow believing in a magic baby to be more important then if you rape children...

It takes belief, and only God measures that. Only God can truly judge a person.

Simply saying the words means nothing.

Before you decide to go off, consider that there are likely a lot of Christians who aren't going to go there, either. I don't even know if what I feel to be that state of faith is sufficient. I only have faith that it is. None of us truly knows. There will be surprises when we get there and see who is and isn't in Heaven.

Now, people of other faiths have belief. Does God consider that sufficient? Who knows? He isn't telling me.

Atheists ... well, even they have a chance if they can live the perfect sinless life. God can accept perfection. So the perfectly good and moral atheist will possibly be fine. There may be some atheists there. Who knows? However, salvation through grace takes faith, and atheists claim they will have none of that ... so good luck with perfection.

Really!?! Atheists?!?


I thought believing in Jesus was really the one and only requirement. Which is insane to me, but hey the whole damn thing is crazy to me.

a reply to: Entreri06
If there were some twist of universal fate that gave me a seat in anyone's Heaven...I'm sure I would be pleased enough just to have been invited, that I would have no judgment to offer anyone-else...including 'child molesters'.
So - since I am 'worse' than they...I offer apologies for what harm anyone-else has inflicted upon your life, psyche and/or...whatever you believe has been robbed, warped or otherwise damaged.

If, on the other hand, this is more a philosophical argument with intent of kicking 'a particular ideology' in the proverbial tenets, then...uhhhh... Never Mind...and, Carry On.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: Entreri06

If there was no repentance, then there would be no reward, it's that simple. I am not sure why you can't accept that. If they repent, in, if they don't, out. Simple. So no, you will NOT be sharing Heaven with child molesters, you will be sharing Heaven with other repentant children of God.

Ugh.... A child molester could repent too.... And since almost all repent and become born again Christians in jail, the logical conclusion is that there will absolutely be child molesters in heaven... And any of there non christian victims will urn in hell.

It's completely horrible yes, but that's the bible.

Of course, in a world that increasingly affirms one's personal sexual urges and desires as normal and natural and just a part of you ... how truly likely do you think actual repentance on the part of a child molester is? After all, he or she can't really help whom they're attracted to anymore than a person can help it if they're attracted to a member of the same sex instead of a member of the opposite sex. And before you cry foul, understand that there is a very small but growing movement of psychologists who want to reclassify pedophilia that same way that homosexuality was reclassified. So I don't think you have to worry too much about many remorseful child molesters.

It's not wrong; they were just born that way, and we just need to help them not victimize.That's the line I'm seeing.

Any public figure trying to draw a comparison between gays and pedophiles has been roasted. They are two completely different things.

It doesn't matter if people are born "that way" or not. A monster is a monster reguardless. If your born evil, your fault or not, your still evil.

That said you must not have ever done a weekend in county. Those jokers in jail convert and MEAN IT!!! They all sober up and religious studies is about the only thing allowed so they jump in head first.

Once they got back around kids and/or drugs (real ones, not pot) they might revert, but the ones who die in jail don't.


Hell since you like the comparison with gays and ChoMo's so much. There are more then a few gays who have went all born again and gotten married to women.

originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: Entreri06
If there were some twist of universal fate that gave me a seat in anyone's Heaven...I'm sure I would be pleased enough just to have been invited, that I would have no judgment to offer anyone-else...including 'child molesters'.
So - since I am 'worse' than they...I offer apologies for what harm anyone-else has inflicted upon your life, psyche and/or...whatever you believe has been robbed, warped or otherwise damaged.

If, on the other hand, this is more a philosophical argument with intent of kicking 'a particular ideology' in the proverbial tenets, then...uhhhh... Never Mind...and, Carry On.

No deep seated emotional issue here. Just playing the logic out to the logical conclusion... I don't think most of any religions often do.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

And this doesn't sound like freaking karma to you and the same crap 99% of all the other religions promote: Do good and you won''t go there, you'll get somethin good in return. You can sugar coat it as "grace" but it's not, Grace is getting something you don't deserve, Karma is getting something you do. I'm tired of Christians preaching the grace of jesus and then saying "oh but you gotta stop doing this and do this too". Don't bother responding because I'm tired of arguing with the warped views of Christians. If you're so righteous and repentant, then go to the middle east and preach in the same streets were muslim terrorist roam.

first off, i don't care if youre aetheist satanist buddhist whatever it's cool and I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. Just answering the question honestly and without trying to sound politically correct because that ish is so fake and I have a very open mind and I like people in general as long as they have brains.

yep. I don't mind. neither would any real christian. Child molesters? cool! Can I share heaven with murderers and evil people too? They can be my brothers if they love Jesus. If they love Jesus, they aren't going to be molesting anyone. Accepting the truth changes you. Physically. Mentally. It's noticeable.

That's what's cool about the truth. It sets you free. Being forgiven sets you free.

Who am I to judge, anyway? Who are any of us?

No matter if it's a jihaddist nutcase, a child molester, or your next door neighbor--everyone has done bad things in their life. Sinning is sinning. Doesn't matter which sin. It's the same.

You don't get to heaven by being good. That is why catholics are wrong. You see, it isn't that hard. That is just what the church used to try to get people in the dark ages not to be so flipping evil and stuff. It's not a bad thing to try to be good all the time but it isn't the way to get to heaven. That's Jesus and only Jesus. And you can probably choose truth even after you die. Even if you didn't believe in life, maybe. I don't know what happens after death. But I do remember before being born and being born so--take that however you'd like.

While I think that child molesters should have their genitalia chopped off and fed to them without anesthetic before being set upon by wild dogs, I'd still be ok with them going to heaven. in fact, i want them to go. I want everyone. No matter how evil they are or were. I think that that would be awesome to be like whoa Hitler I'm so glad you aren't evil anymore--wow I wish you'd been like this alive but hey at least you woke up.

That's what Jesus forgiving sins is all about.

What a silly question lol

a reply to: rukia

"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds". (Rev 22:12).

Your "deeds", are your works., or lack thereof.

Hmmm, looks like Catholics have been right all along about this.