Sharing Heaven with Child Molesters?

originally posted by: rukia
first off, i don't care if youre aetheist satanist buddhist whatever it's cool and I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. Just answering the question honestly and without trying to sound politically correct because that ish is so fake and I have a very open mind and I like people in general as long as they have brains.

yep. I don't mind. neither would any real christian. Child molesters? cool! Can I share heaven with murderers and evil people too? They can be my brothers if they love Jesus. If they love Jesus, they aren't going to be molesting anyone. Accepting the truth changes you. Physically. Mentally. It's noticeable.

That's what's cool about the truth. It sets you free. Being forgiven sets you free.

Who am I to judge, anyway? Who are any of us?

No matter if it's a jihaddist nutcase, a child molester, or your next door neighbor--everyone has done bad things in their life. Sinning is sinning. Doesn't matter which sin. It's the same.

You don't get to heaven by being good. That is why catholics are wrong. You see, it isn't that hard. That is just what the church used to try to get people in the dark ages not to be so flipping evil and stuff. It's not a bad thing to try to be good all the time but it isn't the way to get to heaven. That's Jesus and only Jesus. And you can probably choose truth even after you die. Even if you didn't believe in life, maybe. I don't know what happens after death. But I do remember before being born and being born so--take that however you'd like.

While I think that child molesters should have their genitalia chopped off and fed to them without anesthetic before being set upon by wild dogs, I'd still be ok with them going to heaven. in fact, i want them to go. I want everyone. No matter how evil they are or were. I think that that would be awesome to be like whoa Hitler I'm so glad you aren't evil anymore--wow I wish you'd been like this alive but hey at least you woke up.

That's what Jesus forgiving sins is all about.

What a silly question lol

It is HILARIOUS!!! How people just KNOW how the "divine" side of things work! How they have the inside scoop and even all the other Christians a wrong," but I know how things really work".


Oh and all sin is the same?!? So should people who disrespect there parents (aka all of us, at least once!) should have there genitals removed and be forced to eat them?!?

You conveniently missed the point..... The point being the contridiction between a non Christian child who was raped and murdered by a Psyco who goes all "born again" later. The Christian God will choose to "forgive" the rapist and reward him with the kingdom of heaven, while the little buddist 16 year old will be sentenced to hell for all eternity.

originally posted by: Ignatian


a reply to: rukia

"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds". (Rev 22:12).

Your "deeds", are your works., or lack thereof.

Hmmm, looks like Catholics have been right all along about this.

So could you explain to me how not buying the "magic baby" thing is more important then if you spent your life raping children?

I feel a bit disappointed and curious why nobody shared their thought on what I wrote in my previous reply.

Personally I think I make a valid point if this "problem" of the OP is approached in this fashion. I mean it clearafize (is that a word?) a lot. The only thing that bothers me is what a person must do to be denied heaven.

I remember that the only sin which will deny you heaven is the disrespect of the Holy Spirit?

originally posted by: zatara
I feel a bit disappointed and curious why nobody shared their thought on what I wrote in my previous reply.

Personally I think I make a valid point if this "problem" of the OP is approached in this fashion. I mean it clearafize (is that a word?) a lot. The only thing that bothers me is what a person must do to be denied heaven.

I remember that the only sin which will deny you heaven is the disrespect of the Holy Spirit?

You should so reiterate your point so people know what your last message was.


See I personally don't care if it's wireing or not.... Evil is evil, if you were born that way or not. I guess it's different gor a Christian, because they think "God wouldn't make you evil!". Evolution isn't at all that picky. So I agree, just like being gay, your born wired that way. But it's irrelevant. If your a danger to people you gotta go...IMHO.

a reply to: zatara

Clarifies.


I hope when I die I go to heaven, so I can walk through those pearly gates, spit in Gods face, & say # you.

I don't molest children though, pick your poison.

originally posted by: Entreri06



So being that repentance and believing in Jesus are the only real requirement to get you passed sait peter at the pearly gates and almost all violent criminals convert in prison, doesn't that mean (in heaven) were going to end up with a couple ChoMo's (child molestors) next door?


Since mother Teresa lost faith before her death. That does mean her and Ghandi will be tortured for all eternity while millions of violent murderers reap the rewards of everlasting life?

According to this logic anyone who has sinned on Earth would not be allowed into Heaven. So yes, according to the Christian religion EVERY SINGLE HUMAN SPIRIT IN HEAVEN HAS SINNED.However for believers who have not repented and asked forgiveness for their sins, no matter how big or small humans deem them, it is my belief they will not make it into Heaven.

a reply to: Entreri06

Okay, here it is... my reply from the previous page..

========================================================================================================================

That is a good question and did I ask myself this too.. Are we sharing heaven with perverts and the most moraly depraved persons thinkable..?

The only way to maybe "justify" this is philosophize about what a soul is and what the influence is of the body it houses.

You probably know the story about the kind and caring person that suffered a terrible car crash and suffered brain damage. Because certain parts of the brain were damaged this persons personality completely changed... As if it had become a completely different person..

There is a connection between the structure of the brain and howthe 'soul' operates. A good analogy is to compare it with a cd-player. If you imagine the soul to be the disk and the brain the apparatus that reads the disk and give the output to the loudspeakers. If the player has a malfunction you can hear this through the loudspeakers. There is nothing wrong with the disk but because of twisted wiring in the hardware we experiance a screwed-up output.

What if the wiring of someones brain gives him the craving to commit a crime.. Some people just can not help themselves and do not feel responsible or guilty for the crime they commited. The reason for that is because their brains are not wired like most people..

Now that person dies and is released from that screwed up brain... now that person can see everything clearly and feels remorse for what he or she has done...

How should God judge that person..? How should you judge that person?

Of course it will be a complete different story if that soul is outright evil to begin with... I mean also after death.


=================================================================================================

I now just wait and see what other fellow ATS members think about this train of thought...



you see,... I am smiling again. Thx brother !! (a star for your considerarion..!)

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: zatara

Clarifies.


I hope when I die I go to heaven, so I can walk through those pearly gates, spit in Gods face, & say # you.

I don't molest children though, pick your poison.

I get it.. you are frustrated and an angry person. I think God will understand you better than you do yourself. So don't worry He wil probably understand you.

originally posted by: zatara
a reply to: Entreri06

Okay, here it is... my reply from the previous page..

========================================================================================================================

That is a good question and did I ask myself this too.. Are we sharing heaven with perverts and the most moraly depraved persons thinkable..?

The only way to maybe "justify" this is philosophize about what a soul is and what the influence is of the body it houses.

You probably know the story about the kind and caring person that suffered a terrible car crash and suffered brain damage. Because certain parts of the brain were damaged this persons personality completely changed... As if it had become a completely different person..

There is a connection between the structure of the brain and howthe 'soul' operates. A good analogy is to compare it with a cd-player. If you imagine the soul to be the disk and the brain the apparatus that reads the disk and give the output to the loudspeakers. If the player has a malfunction you can hear this through the loudspeakers. There is nothing wrong with the disk but because of twisted wiring in the hardware we experiance a screwed-up output.

What if the wiring of someones brain gives him the craving to commit a crime.. Some people just can not help themselves and do not feel responsible or guilty for the crime they commited. The reason for that is because their brains are not wired like most people..

Now that person dies and is released from that screwed up brain... now that person can see everything clearly and feels remorse for what he or she has done...

How should God judge that person..? How should you judge that person?

Of course it will be a complete different story if that soul is outright evil to begin with... I mean also after death.


=================================================================================================

I now just wait and see what other fellow ATS members think about this train of thought...

you see,... I am smiling again. Thx brother !! (a star for your considerarion..!)

Did you see my reply to you about wireing?

I basically think it's irrelevant. Weather it's your fault or your just wired to be a Psyco doesn't matter. We can't fix crazy yet. One day when we can reword people, then maybe. But for now a monster is a monster born. That way or not.

a reply to: Entreri06

So being that repentance and believing in Jesus are the only real requirement to get you passed sait peter at the pearly gates and almost all violent criminals convert in prison, doesn't that mean (in heaven) were going to end up with a couple ChoMo's (child molestors) next door? Since mother Teresa lost faith before her death. That does mean her and Ghandi will be tortured for all eternity while millions of violent murderers reap the rewards of everlasting life?

Not belonging to any denomination might be my disadvantage but in reading the NT I was led to believe that salvation came by faith and reward by the deeds of the body. Belief is not necessarily the faith that is required by God when you read that even the Satan's believe. As English people I don't think we have the entire correct meaning of the word faith or belief. I realize there may have been many threads on this but what are the connective thoughts of belief and Faith? Don't you have to have belief to have faith in that belief?

I was raised Roman Catholic, so a Christian upbringing in what I grew to consider one of the greatest cults ever conceived. I walked away from that church at 16-17 years old while still going to a Catholic high school. I was failing my senior year in high school due to my daily disagreements with the priest that taught my religion class, along with my long diatribes against the Catholic church in my essays and test answers. I stayed until I turned 18 years old and then promptly signed myself out of that school and registered at my local public high school to continue my education.
I have gone back and forth between atheism and agnosticism for the last 28 years but have never been able to logically convince myself that God did not exist.
My life has been dedicated to knowledge of all types. I have self studied every bit of information I could get my hands on and have read deeply into many different religious cultures. I believe the truth is found at the common root of all of our religions, combined. I have not finished searching for this truth, but can feel that I draw closer every day.
I am no longer a Christian, I realize that now. Christians seem to have lost focus on the real reason Christ was here to begin with. To lead them back to God, the Father. Instead many have twisted Christianity and it's wonderful messages into a cult following of Christ, the son of God. They have lost sight of the forest for the trees. Christ was here to save all mankind with his message of hope. Part of this message was to turn back to the ways of his Father, using his teachings and deeds as an example of the path to follow. Jesus does not save. He saved, past-tense. Turn back to the Father, live your life using the examples of the son. Enter into the kingdom only after living the remainder of your life following this path.
There is no "get out of hell free" card to be played on your deathbed. If you have not had the intent in your heart and the courage to do the deeds required to open the gates, no magic words can get you past.
I left the Catholic church due to the extreme hypocrisy I could see all around me. I could see nothing but gold and velvet and extravagance around me while being told I should care for the poor and give to UNICEF, etc. Even as a small child I could feel the wrongness in this. I never had even the slightest desire to look back until the most recent pope. He gets it. He lives it. He refuses to give in to the power and allure of wealth and power. For a long time I had lost faith in mankind, while also struggling with my faith in religion. It wasn't until now that I realized that it isn't about faith for some people. Some people move past faith to a level of knowledge. I now realize that I know God. My faith was replaced when this knowledge filled my soul. Christ is my brother, not my God. I worship the one true God by walking the path he has laid out for me, through one of his many sons, Jesus. The message is right in front of you if you can only see the forest through the trees that have followed and diluted that message.

originally posted by: Bleeeargh
I was raised Roman Catholic, so a Christian upbringing in what I grew to consider one of the greatest cults ever conceived. I walked away from that church at 16-17 years old while still going to a Catholic high school. I was failing my senior year in high school due to my daily disagreements with the priest that taught my religion class, along with my long diatribes against the Catholic church in my essays and test answers. I stayed until I turned 18 years old and then promptly signed myself out of that school and registered at my local public high school to continue my education.
I have gone back and forth between atheism and agnosticism for the last 28 years but have never been able to logically convince myself that God did not exist.
My life has been dedicated to knowledge of all types. I have self studied every bit of information I could get my hands on and have read deeply into many different religious cultures. I believe the truth is found at the common root of all of our religions, combined. I have not finished searching for this truth, but can feel that I draw closer every day.
I am no longer a Christian, I realize that now. Christians seem to have lost focus on the real reason Christ was here to begin with. To lead them back to God, the Father. Instead many have twisted Christianity and it's wonderful messages into a cult following of Christ, the son of God. They have lost sight of the forest for the trees. Christ was here to save all mankind with his message of hope. Part of this message was to turn back to the ways of his Father, using his teachings and deeds as an example of the path to follow. Jesus does not save. He saved, past-tense. Turn back to the Father, live your life using the examples of the son. Enter into the kingdom only after living the remainder of your life following this path.
There is no "get out of hell free" card to be played on your deathbed. If you have not had the intent in your heart and the courage to do the deeds required to open the gates, no magic words can get you past.
I left the Catholic church due to the extreme hypocrisy I could see all around me. I could see nothing but gold and velvet and extravagance around me while being told I should care for the poor and give to UNICEF, etc. Even as a small child I could feel the wrongness in this. I never had even the slightest desire to look back until the most recent pope. He gets it. He lives it. He refuses to give in to the power and allure of wealth and power. For a long time I had lost faith in mankind, while also struggling with my faith in religion. It wasn't until now that I realized that it isn't about faith for some people. Some people move past faith to a level of knowledge. I now realize that I know God. My faith was replaced when this knowledge filled my soul. Christ is my brother, not my God. I worship the one true God by walking the path he has laid out for me, through one of his many sons, Jesus. The message is right in front of you if you can only see the forest through the trees that have followed and diluted that message.

How can LITERALLY every Christian have their own personal flavor of Christianity and still believe it's actually real.

originally posted by: Entreri06
True but some crimes are far worse then others. Maybe the bible says all sun is the same, but we all know that's not true. Some one who disrespects there parent is not on the same level as a child molester...how ever the bible says we should (which is flipping nuts)....

I think so myself. All sin separates us from God, so in that sense, all the "same", but God does address some as more serious. Some cases, the stuff people do is so bad, I personally half hope they don't repent. No, not very Christian, and I know better, but it's the response I have at times. Not sure what you meant by that last part.

Apologies for the delay; been ages since I was in here.