NYPD’s Cop Union: ‘We Have Become a Wartime Police Department’ after Two Officers Slain

a reply to: jude11

Oh man. So this all just needs tostop right away and right now. The police should be on the side of the public, protectors of the public good, and a beacon of hope and safety in this world. I cannot support any organization that goes rogue from the public trust.

The man who committed this awful crime, whatever his motives, was clearly a career miscreant and criminal. He is not the picture of the protest movement and that is pretty damn obvious. The police themselves should see this even more clearly than the rest of us. Insteadd they have 'declared war' on the very public they are sworn to protect. This is nothing less than a total betrayal of the POINT of having police.

The arguement is not complicated. We should all of us be equal under the law. If you are a police officer and you shoot to death an unarmed man, you have, at least, committed manslaughter. Police training itself should prevent this from happeneing to any but the worst and most incompentant officers. If you are politician or an officer in the military or one of our secret services, and you torture in violation of American and international law, then you are a criminal and you should go to trial.

Because we let criminal cops avoid trail, criminal politicians avoid trial, criminal military personel avoid trail, we ahve become a nation of inequality. The people are angry and are protesting the right to be equal under the law, and the reaction to that is more oppression.

All we need to do to fix this is remember our hopes, maintain our identity, and subject all criminals, regardless of standing and profession, see a fair trial by jury.

Yet I fear we are lost. America has lost the plot.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SlapMonkey
I'm having a hard believing that the "dead cops" thing wasn't an isolated incident, incited by provocateurs, to make all protesters against police brutality look like terrorists. I haven't heard that slogan anywhere else before today.

That being said, I hope that, at least those who led the chant were arrested for inciting lawlessness. Because calling for the death of anyone, cop or not, is illegal.

Of course, on the flip side, you could wonder if more are saying it, and it's just not getting recorded. Couple the "dead cops" chant with the one right before it about "Hands up, Shoot back," and I'm quite certain this isn't an isolated instance, as I've heard the 'shoot back' chant before.

I don't disagree that they should be arrested, but there's the catch-22 of the cops--arrest them, they'll be labeled as overbearing tyrants because they didn't appear to act on the chant, they were "just practicing their first-amendment right" and could claim they kept it peaceful. But, continue to let this crap fester, and you will see more unwarranted violence against officer by the weakminded people who let these chants echo in their sick heads and feel that they must act on them.

So you tell me--what should they do? They already have a PR problem AND a targets-on-their-backs problem. Tell me the solution--I know what I'd do.

I also believe that the Police Commissioner, who blamed De Blasio for this, and Patrick Lynch, who declared war, should both be fired for threatening the people of New York. The true colors of police corruption are showing, big time.

Herein lies the problem--you just said that these chanters shold be arrested for inciting lawlessness, but then you have a mayor who is, if not instigating, at least adding to the vilification of the NYPD (and, by extension, LEOs everywhere). As for Patrick Lynch, he was asserting that there is an air of war against law enforcement by some of the citizens, and that they have to react. He did not 'declar war,' as you and others claim.

I'm not saying police corruption doesn't exist, but your two "examples" don't support your argument at all, and they did not threaten the people of NYC. You're reading between lines that don't exist, or you're just mindlessly soaking up what anti-authority bully pulpits are interpreting. This is not how solutions are accomplished, and it seems that you think that arresting people and firing people is the best way to go, and maybe it is, but I think you have the targets of these actions a little off the mark.

originally posted by: Drkguardian
a reply to: TheBlackTiger
I read something recently that said that most officer involved in a shooting shoot to kill due to lack weapon proficienc.

Not exactly sure were the article was going with that because a none lethal shot, but one that would make some one think twice before taking another step forward, for the most part (pending situational stress factors) isnt hard.

Im a firm believe that they shoot to kill, to squash reliability, and to keep from a conflicting story.

There mind set problyn, "if i must fire my weapon, i must also secure my employment, and financial assets. Shoot to kill, or shoot to end career and lose everything. Fire for affect"

Do you even know how to aim at a moving target, or how to shoot for self defense? Hell, have you ever even fired a weapon at a target?

You can believe whatever you want, but just because you deploy faulty logic in support of your conclusion does not make you correct.

Find me anyone with a pistol, a bunch of gear on, adrenaline pumping, and is in a life-threatening situation who can aim-to-wound and do it proficiently and with a repeated consistency, and I'll show you someone with skills that maybe 0.01% of all LEO/military people have. The rest are taught to aim center mass because (a) that is where you're most likely to hit your target in a high-stress situation, (b) that is where vital organs are that will help eliminate the threat (not necessarily the life), and (c) this is the largest, thickest part of the body, and aiming and hitting there reduces the chance of missing and a stray bullet endangering the life of an innocent individual.

Can we PLEASE quit pretending that real life is the same as Call of Duty, that every LEO can shoot as well as Chris Kyle, but with a handgun, and that 'aiming to wound' is even a realistic approach to self defense or the defense of others.

I'm guessing that whomever wrote that article (if it exists) is ignorant to firing a weapon in the scenario that I propose, as well.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Of course, on the flip side, you could wonder if more are saying it, and it's just not getting recorded. Couple the "dead cops" chant with the one right before it about "Hands up, Shoot back," and I'm quite certain this isn't an isolated instance, as I've heard the 'shoot back' chant before.

No, No, No! I'm calling BS! If protesters were chanting those phrases, calling for anarchy and murder. It would be plastered all over the media. it would be all over Fox News! The conservatives would have seized on it and called the Feds to call in the National Guard and impose Marshall Law!

Besides never having heard "Hands up - Shoot back" from protesters, the phrase makes no sense! How can you shoot back when your hands are up? C'mon!

Further, they've tracked the movements of the shooter and have confirmed that he wasn't involved in any protests and wasn't any where near the demonstration in question. This was a deeply troubled and sick individual that had been acting out for years. The shooting of these two innocent officers and the demonstrations against police brutality are rooted in two different causes altogether. One thing is NOT the like other.

I don't disagree that they should be arrested, but there's the catch-22 of the cops--arrest them, they'll be labeled as overbearing tyrants because they didn't appear to act on the chant, they were "just practicing their first-amendment right" and could claim they kept it peaceful. But, continue to let this crap fester, and you will see more unwarranted violence against officer by the weakminded people who let these chants echo in their sick heads and feel that they must act on them.

Cops are not being criticized for arresting people who scream FIRE in a theater or calls for and threaten murder. They are being criticized for shooting and killing people before or while they're being questioned, apprehended or are already in their custody. This very visible thuggish outburst by the Police Commissioner and the Union leaders just emphasized the police attitude of superiority. Blame the protesters, blame the Mayor, blame Obama, blame Holder. Anything and everyone is in the wrong except the police whose corruption problems are coming to roost at their doorsteps.

they did not threaten the people of NYC

Then, just who is this war being waged against?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SlapMonkey

they did not threaten the people of NYC

Then, just who is this war being waged against?

They are threatening civilians so i can only assume that it is not limited to only people in NYC but the U.S as a whole. I think that interpretation at least makes more sense then claiming that what they said was not a thread aimed at the people at all.

I think it really odd that the best thing I could add to this is to quote Shepherd Book: " A government is simply a body of people , usually notably ungoverned." a reply to: Klassified

a reply to: DisgruntledPatriot

"A government is simply a body of people , usually notably ungoverned."

True that.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SlapMonkey

they did not threaten the people of NYC

Then, just who is this war being waged against?

I'll say it again more slowly for you...

They...were...acknowledging...that...a...war...is...being...waged...against...them...and...that...they...are...preparing...in...kind.

If you sincerely can tell me that many of these protestors have not both acted on and voiced a desire for violence against police officers--in this case, the NYPD--then I will hand your a mirror and show you someone who is willfully ignorant of the situation at hand.

Just because you want to call BS on this issue and imply that, if a chant isn't logical, it would never get chanted by a mindless mob, they you're delusional to the situation. I'm not dismissing wrongdoing by LEOs--I never have, but you can't just be a one-sided debater in this issue and expect to be taken seriously. Both sides can be and have been in the wrong, but misinterpretting statements from the union leader to help further your view on the subject does nothing positive in this emotional debate.

Sorry for the late response...holidays and all.

a reply to: jude11

sounds to me like they have gone rogue. The mayor should condemn them. Refuse their demands. if they refuse to comply, withhold their funding and paychecks until they get back in the business of law enforcement. Cops make lousy poker players because they WANT to show you their cards.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Oh Please!

Slimy Baltimore FOX Affiliate Caught Faking "Kill a Cop" Protest Chant

The NYPD squandered all the good will that the public was willing to bestow on them through good faith when they turned the solemn event of a stricken police officer's funeral into a political circus. And, then again, squandered good will on a graduation ceremony immature temper tantrum! A welcoming ceremony for rookie police, brand spankin new police officers, into the brotherhood by BOOING the elected representative of the people that they're charged with protecting and serving, sent the wrong message at the most inappropriate time.

Somebody call whine one one, we need a waaaaaambulance!

a reply to: windword

I saw that...it's a completely different incident, but if you want to divert the attention, that says all that needs said.

It's funny that people like you seem to think that public servants like LEOs need to just smile and nod at everything that happens to them by people they are sworn to protect and serve--it's obvious that you've never been in that situation, and if you have, quite frankly, you sound like a coward. Would you even think about standing up against some jackass like De Blasio when he is putting on an obvious smear campaign against you? My money is betting that you wouldn't.

So, you seem to be of the mindset that the mayor can run his ignorant mouth all he wants, but if the police force steps up to return the ball, that's just absolutely immature and not okay? Are you seriously saying that?

So, are you going address the conversation at hand, or do you want to start discussing a completely different incident because your opinion has no credibility on the current one? Because if so, that's fine...I'll just walk away.

In fact,...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

In the last five years the NYPD has paid almost five hundred million dollars to settle false arrest and civil rights abuse cases out of court. Don't try and blame DeBlasio for a police force that has no regard for people's civil rights. These are all documented cases in which the NYPD was listed as the defendant, and settled out of court with TAXPAYER MONEY!

The continued childish and sophomoric behavior of the NYPD to the mayor only lends credence to the allegations of an unprofessional, detached, and frankly immature police force.

The Mayor is white and his wife is black, and their teenage son is dark-skinned and he wears his hair in an afro. In response to a question about the shootings of unarmed young Black men, the Mayor explained that he and his wife had talked to their son about his dealings with the police. What did he say to him? He urged his son to always show police officers respect. To never do anything in their presence that might be misinterpreted as provocative, and to cooperate with them if they told him to do something, all of this to try and ensure that his son always arrives home safely.

The Mayor's advice to his son to always cooperate and show respect for police officers so enraged PBA Chief that he called the Mayor "anti-police", demanded that the Mayor stay away from funerals, and demanded an apology.

The Mayor doesn't need to apologize. Union chief, Mr. Lynch does!

One of the most important points to come out of the NYC police situation is the fact that we have clear evidence that there are too many police, too many laws in the country.

When the police intentionally backed off arresting people, did anyone's quality of life become effected? Did any body in NYC even notice? In fact the only people who we will undoubtedly hear about noticing are those who are looking for revenue for the police dept.

And what are the figures? Something like arrests are down 80 percent. Coincidentally, we should be cutting police forces nationwide by as much.

Not bashing police here, they are all to be respected. But look, not everyone can be a pro athlete. Let the best rise to the top and cut the fat. We shouldn't have laws just to create revenue through fines. And recent displays by the police have proven that these laws do nothing but make the average Joe's life complicated for no reason.