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NYPD’s Cop Union: ‘We Have Become a Wartime Police Department’ after Two Officers Slain

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posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: YouSir

I didn't say it is good. I said I understand it. Big difference.




posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: lynxpilot

Well there is nothing new to this. Ask cops how much more federal oversight they have now from state authorities working with federal entities. The states with FEW exceptions do what the federal government says because they want that sweet money flow from DC. Its really unheard of to say no to federal oversight on a state level. The words "cut" and "budget" make everyone play ball.

They say to states "YOU do this and report to me that", but its still a federal baby. Law enforcement has been castrated already by federal oversight. Its just a matter of time for the average officer to be replaced directly by an officer who answers to a federal agency. Their supervisors already have been in one way or another.

I am actually not against a militarized police force. It sounds like all sorts of awful, BUT have you ever met more than a few ex military LEOs? They are the most professional and well trained officers in their PDs. I would take a veteran who has seen some isht and is not going to scare easily or lose his head over civilian crap over some guy who was bullied in school and joined the police force to hold power or to do what ever he wanted.

I can tell you that a soldier is better at peace time interaction with a civilian population than a civilian with all sorts of issues he cant disconnect from while on duty. They are also better public servants having already gotten used to sacrificing for others.

One group handles stress better than the other. One group is used to danger while the other just deals with it.

I say bring it on. I also trust the military over the actual populace of the country with protecting its security in a professional and non interfering way.

Its the solution elitists will offer but its also a solution many other countries have used for some time and has proved to be most beneficial for the people themselves.

I think it would also address the issue of what exactly to do with our way too big military during times of peace.

If you think its not possible for this to happen....I say what ever. Ask around. The federal government is all over law enforcement in our country already. Its the next logical step in the direction we have taken for over a decade now.


edit on 12 22 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

edit on 12 22 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: suz62
They're under attack. What did you expect them to say? Everything's fine?

People in this thread have lost their grip on reality. This IS war for them. They are already under attack every day they patrol. Now they're being ambushed by crazies who take the law into their own hands.

WTF does it end? Do you people really want a race war because that's what this is coming down to.


In that case they should just quit, plain and simple. They signed up for a dangerous job. If someone decides to work FOR the mafia or any other thug-like criminal organization then there is a high chance of being injured or killed. If someone chooses to sign up to become a LEO and become the authority on the street and fight crime there is a high chance of being injured or killed.

Criminals die and cops die at the hands of each other (AND so do a lot of innocent people), it goes both ways. That being said there are a lot more people shot to death by police officers where it was not needed to be, then police officers getting killed. And the fact that police is now saying "this is war and civilians are outgunned so we will win" is NOT a war on crime and is showing their true nature,intend and self entitlement while proclaiming that they are more important then the civilians they should be protecting and working for.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: lynxpilot

Well there is nothing new to this. Ask cops how much more federal oversight they have now from state authorities working with federal entities. The states with FEW exceptions do what the federal government says because they want that sweet money flow from DC. Its really unheard of to say no to federal oversight on a state level. The words "cut" and "budget" make everyone play ball.

They say to states "YOU do this and report to me that", but its still a federal baby. Law enforcement has been castrated already by federal oversight. Its just a matter of time for the average officer to be replaced directly by an officer who answers to a federal agency. Their supervisors already have been in one way or another.

I am actually not against a militarized police force. It sounds like all sorts of awful, BUT have you ever met more than a few ex military LEOs? They are the most professional and well trained officers in their PDs. I would take a veteran who has seen some isht and is not going to scare easily or lose his head over civilian crap over some guy who was bullied in school and joined the police force to hold power or to do what ever he wanted.

I can tell you that a soldier is better at peace time interaction with a civilian population than a civilian with all sorts of issues he cant disconnect from while on duty. They are also better public servants having already gotten used to sacrificing for others.

One group handles stress better than the other. One group is used to danger while the other just deals with it.

I say bring it on. I also trust the military over the actual populace of the country with protecting its security in a professional and non interfering way.

Its the solution elitists will offer but its also a solution many other countries have used for some time and has proved to be most beneficial for the people themselves.

I think it would also address the issue of what exactly to do with our way too big military during times of peace.

If you think its not possible for this to happen....I say what ever. Ask around. The federal government is all over law enforcement in our country already. Its the next logical step in the direction we have taken for over a decade now.



You don't understand the fundamentals of our system of government. The federal government is not supposed to have the overwhelming power over the population. The population is the 'militia', and is the force that rules to protect the state, and if called to federal service to protect the country. A federalized army is limited to 2 years of funding for a reason. And that's not even an amendment. It's in the original text. The whole idea was that the population would control their destiny, and the federal government would be serving and representative. To have a federal government in charge of law enforcement is having the fox guard the henhouse in a way that is beyond any stretch of the intention of the founders. Anybody who would be willing to accept federal control of law enforcement, and in essence complete control of the population, is begging for totalitarianism which is essentially hostile monarchy.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: lynxpilot

Yes I understand that.

That said, its still reality we are dealing with. Cops arent going to change in this country for at least a few generations even if we start to take more concerted efforts now. The solution IMO is a side by side teamwork of regular cops and military police. Cops can handle mundane stuff like traffic infractions and municipal violations and military police can deal with gang violence, organized crime and more serious matters.

The LAPD would be my first stop if I were in power. I would disband THE WHOLE lot of them and start from scratch. They can apply but will have to pass a psychological evaluation, physical fitness exam as well as be on a probation period of 5 years. Anyone with a history would be out for good. If they want to be traffic cops and deal with mundane stuff they can stay along and be a PUBLIC servant. If not they can apply for the hard to get into military police force.

Then Chicago. SAME.

I would do that all over the country until the power hungry fools are out and the public service minded ones stay and are PROMOTED. Then I would make all these military police forces to fall under state authority as a nationwide standing militia charged with public safety.

I would make regular cops into "meter maids" out to get money for their cities if thats what they want. I would make REAL PUBLIC SERVANTS the elite and encourage them to sideline cops when it comes to REAL public service.

You want power? Ok, WHY? Ok, here is the power to fine. You want real power? That takes SACRIFICE and having an understanding of service. You have to earn the right to consider yourself elite.

That would make all these idiots into what they are and the real heroes into who the deserve to be.


edit on 12 22 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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Say when! You ain't no daisy..... You ain't no daisy at all.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 08:51 PM
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a reply to: jude11
i am truly sorry these two officers lost their lives. but i can understand why this is going on . police have been leaving the idea that they are there to protect and serve the public to how much in fines and prison time i can make to fill my quota . citirs have degenerated to the poibt they make police hive out citation as much as possible. oh that guy flasjing movie or look like he is up to no good lets go shake them down naybe we can get them for drugs and get some fed anti drug money.
yes i know most cops aren't like this but a few are and they tarnish all the cops reputayions. then you got the media and the pres and that fool al shatpton trying to turn everything about racism but this is the 21st century they need to realize its everybody white brown asian spanish all of us have been harassed by the few bad apples. the public doesn't know what to do about it and trageties like ferguson and these to pour officers were the result. and yes i know al sharpton uses the title rev . but in my mind god would never tolerate such a bigoted man to spread his word.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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So I just had a discussion with my SO and they said I hate it when cops get killed like this. We were watching End of Watch. I said people get fed up, get tired of getting killed so some pay the price. It's a new world.
So here's this:


But one recent effort stood out for its apparent comprehensiveness: The Killed By Police Facebook page, which aggregates links to news articles on police-related killings and keeps a running tally on the number of victims. The creator of the page does not seek to determine whether police killings are justifiable; each post “merely documents the occurrence of a death.” He told FiveThirtyEight that he was an instructor on nonviolent physical-intervention techniques and that he prefers to remain anonymous.

Killed by Police had listed more than 1,450 deaths caused by law-enforcement officers since its launch, on May 1, 2013, through Sunday. That works out to about three per day, or 1,100 a year.


1,450 police man killed this amount of persons. 31 policeman were killed in 2013. FIGURE IT OUT people.
edit on 22-12-2014 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You think because one is downed, all the rest disappear?

Do i really need to ask if you get it now?

This has got to be one of the most unthought statement made on this post so far.

Clearly, if you look at the ass clowns profiles, he has several followers, any of whom may take up the cuase the day there dog gets hit, gf dumps them, gets fired or doesn't get what they want for Christmas.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: Drkguardian




You think because one is downed, all the rest disappear?


The rest who? Who are you blaming this shooting on? Protesters? Politicians?

This case is like every single other blown out of proportion shooting. Lone gunman with a troubled past, mental and psychological problems, who had tried to commit suicide earlier this year.

You're right. These kinds of people will never disappear. But, there isn't anyone to blame here, but the shooter himself.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: TheBlackTiger

I read something recently that said that most officer involved in a shooting shoot to kill due to lack weapon proficienc.

Not exactly sure were the article was going with that because a none lethal shot, but one that would make some one think twice before taking another step forward, for the most part (pending situational stress factors) isnt hard.

Im a firm believe that they shoot to kill, to squash reliability, and to keep from a conflicting story.

There mind set problyn, "if i must fire my weapon, i must also secure my employment, and financial assets. Shoot to kill, or shoot to end career and lose everything. Fire for affect"



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Some veterans are as you say, no doubt. Some of the finest people I know joined the US miltary. The combination of powerful US propaganda, cultural pressure, and lack of popular dissent is a sort of hidden American tradition designed to keep the ranks of the US military swelled up. But times are different now.

Most of today's veterans are of the internet generation. The list of excuses to join a killing machine (aka the US military) is growing thinner every day, as the availability of information grows. The people who fall for the propaganda are inherently dumber and more brutish, because the required intelligence to see it for the complete BS it is lessens every day.

They aren't your "well-meaning dupe" anymore. They're trigger happy thugs who sign up because they are actually so dumb as to believe murdering the locals in some place 10,000 miles from home is actually protecting that home, or they just enjoy dominating and brutalizing people to begin with. Either way, these are NOT the sort of people any of us want populating our LEO ranks. All that will do is spread the dumbsh*t Rambo mentality even quicker.

There is no solution except militias taking back authority once and for all, because that is truly the last - and only - bastion of defense that the average citizen can and should be relying on for protecting and enforcing constitution-based civil liberties.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 02:26 AM
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You made sense up until militia.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 04:02 AM
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originally posted by: jude11
They have come out and said it. War. This is what many were expecting but to see them actually use the term> Not a good sign.

With the militarization of the police over the last decade it was seen from a long way off. Even other Countries have seen it coming.

www.activistpost.com...

The New York Police Department has declared “war” after two officers were killed Saturday in their squad car while taking part in an anti-terrorism drill by a gunmen said to be taking revenge for the death of Eric Garner.

Look at this address link: www.newsmax.com...

This is what you will see in your address bar: "nypd-union-wartime-dept"




Saying “There’s blood on many hands,” the head of the NYPD’s police union, Patrick Lynch, placed much of the blame on the Mayor’s Office and formally asked Mayor Bill de Blasio not to attend the funerals of the slain officers for appearing overly sympathetic to Eric Garner protests.


NOW the Union is calling the shots. Here are their demands. Yes, demands. The police are making their own rules and deciding their own policy. Not our public servants anymore.

In the wake of the shootings, the NYPD’s union New York Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association issued this bulletin showing that the NYPD are most certainly not taking things lightly:

Starting IMMEDIATELY: At least two units are to respond to EVERY call, no matter the condition or severity, no matter what type of job is pending, or what the opinion of the patrol supervisor happens to be.

IN ADDITION: Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest.

These are precautions that were taken in the 1970′s when police officers were ambushed and executed on a regular basis.

The mayor’s hands are literally dripping with our blood because of his words actions and policies and we have, for the first time in a number of years, become a ‘wartime’ police department. We will act accordingly. (emphasis added)

"Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest."

What does this mean exactly? Are the cops admitting that they have gone overboard in their use of power or are they going to hold the city hostage and watch it burn down? We'll see.

"Michael Bloomberg did say the NYPD was his own “army” back when he was mayor."

We live in a total police state where a man can lose his life for the cost of a rapid transit train ticket, a movie ticket or selling loose cigarettes on a street corner. In fact, while only 31 officers were shot in the line of duty in 2013, no one even really knows how many people are shot by police in this country each year. Some estimates are as high as 5000 since 9/11.
www.washingtonpost.com...


I for one have no doubt that this is only the beginning. All the speculation and doom porn aside it's actually unfolding before our eyes. I think back when I was a kid and cops were heroes. People for the most part had no problems if they were going about their daily lives. But people are now living in fear and reacting because of that fear.

9/11 was said by many to be the start of the police state, militarization of the beat cops. That it was the plan all along. Yes it has happened so now what can be done to turn it back?

My opinion? Nothing short of a civil war that will end with total destruction of the infrastructure, resources and mass graves. It's what comes after that worries me.

And that will depend on who is the victor.

Don't misunderstand me, because in this case I truly hope I'm wrong.

Peace



Militarization of the police? Everyone keeps going on and on about it.

But for some odd reason those same people seem to skip and totally ignore the fact that the gangs and organized criminal groups and individuals that make up the underworld in many countries, not just the United States of America, are now and more and more increasingly so, arming them selves with military grade weapons.

If police in Australia are busting gangs with military grade assault rifles, grenades, rocket launchers(both home made and military grade), Australia a country with some of the toughest anti-gun laws, then what the hell are gangs in places like America arming them selves with?


You wonder why police are being armed up the way they are? Well take a look at how much more dangerous our society has become.

Go back 50 or 100 years ago. Did gangs exist in the manner in which they do now?
Sure there was organized crime, it's existed for as long as the police have if not longer.
But society wasn't as dangerous as it is today.

That's the sad reality that people like your self who bark about Police militarization seem to ignore.

Do you know how many bombings have happened in Malmo in recent years by gangs? You wouldn't even think a place like that would have such level of crime. But it does.

We live in a far more violent and dangerous society and world now. That's the fact, that the reality.
Police forces are there to deal with crime. If the crime is increasing, if it is becoming more dangerous, more violent, then police need to adapt to that and their methods and equipment need to evolve and improve to deal with the new reality.

While not all police do their job with good intentions and with the interests of the public(the people they are meant to protect) at heart or in mind, the vast majority do their jobs as they are intended to be done. The vast majority are good people, who don't abuse their power.

You don't hear about the good things police do, because it's not as publicized. It's not "sexy" for the media to blow up a story about a police officer catching an old lady stealing something because she cant afford it and instead of arresting her and dealing with her according to the letter of the law, instead buys her those items at his own expense.

Those things happen all the time. Police doing good happens far more often then police doing bad.

But the media only shows you one side. Only the negative is blown out of proportion.


People should keep things in context and think.
This site used to be full of people who used to see past the bull# of everyday that in our media.
Now it's full of people who instantly react and jump on the bandwagon.
edit on 23-12-2014 by mortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 04:05 AM
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I know a threat when i hear them. NYPD union officials seem to think they make policy. Their tactics of dissin the Mayor and other authority figures can only go on if/when said officials tolerate such. Personally, I'd tolerate none of that #. Elected officials can and should show leadership and deal with them head on. Good should and would trump over those who've decided they, and only they, will make decisions concerning police procedures.
Obviously New York City has allowed their Police to be represented with a Union, however that can change in a heart-beat once they get involved in politics and show little or no respect towards those who are their superiors. My city allows police union participation to a point however they stand their ground when "attacked" by those who work under them and often will react with the threat of denying union involvement.
I applaud a Mayor who attempts to stave off the possibility of civil unrest by keeping a cool head in heated situations. Don't be fooled. The sentiments of those who demand strict enforcement have no problem with denying the rights of others. What we see today is the culmination of years of disrespect towards anyone who lacks financial resources.
As far as I'm concerned, their attitudes are no different than those who championed eugenic laws around the turn of the century. They, armed with their "superior" qualities felt the need to systematically eliminate plain folk who did not reach their expectations. To be poor and/or disadvantaged then was a crime not to be tolerated. Only after the decisions of the Supreme Court did their actions cease. However, haters are always there looking for a moment to "FORCE" people into submission.
Personally, I'm proud of anyone who stands against haters. I try so hard to not become like them but it's harder every day. I will not be disrespected by anyone and i have no problem with others who feel the same. Wearing a badge and "working under the colour of authority" does not gives you special entitlements with dealing with the public. If you cannot work under such conditions then by all means seek other career options.
After fifty some years i no longer have patience with haters. A bad cop is a bad cop and hateful actions on your part will be scrutinized. The mere fact many of you feel threatened with the addition of body cameras should be a red flag that you are in the wrong business and for your own best interests, as well those around you, may wish to resign.
One thing is certain is that your actions will be under a microscope not only by your superiors but the public as well. With the invent of cell phones most carry you will be watched even more closely.
Now today as we find ourselves living in such conditions, keep in mind we tolerate what we may not tolerate tomorrow. You, members of the public, has the key to freedom by demanding respect. Nothing more or less will be tolerated regardless of who you are. Never allow the haters the privilege of dictating the terms of your life. I may not agree with everything you wish, however i stand with you against haters and Wall St. manipulators. reply to: jude11



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: SlapMonkey
Both sides need to think about what they are doing. The rule of Mob mentality rarely is productive for anything. There is a major problem with the "Us vs Them" approach that law enforcement has been using for quite sometime now.

For a law enforcement officer to do their job, they have to have the respect and trust of the citizens they are supposed to serve and protect.


You seem to disregard the fact that MANY citizens subscribe to the 'us-versus-them' approach to law enforcement, too--I'm glad that you say that both sides need to think about what they are doing, but then you seem then put all of the burden of thinking and changing on the shoulders of the LEOs.

The problem with the current relationship is that if the citizenry doesn't reciprocate attempts to better relations (assuming the LEOs initiate the changes), nothing will change. Or, worse yet, the problems could be exacerbated because the LEOs will appear "soft" and it will embolden those how are prone to, say, reaching for an officer's weapon while he's in his vehicle and then charging at him, or ambushing two officers in their patrol car.

With a position of authority comes a responsibility to wield that power justly and fairly, but also retain the power of authority or else that position becomes null and void. It's a very fine, almost miniscule line to ride, and there will always be mistakes on both sides of the coin. There will never be the perfection that people seek, but I'm just tired of hearing that it's always the LEO side of the discussion that has to do the correcting--there's plenty of room for adjustments on both sides.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: suz62
a reply to: YouSir

You insult and offend to make your point. You have zero credibility.



Ummm...K...POT...or would that make you the KETTLE

I suppose I could go ON...

But that might be overly Redundant...

Why don't we just shake hands and agree that we have different views and get back on topic...

Why do you have (from my decidedly incomplete observation) such an animosity to Libertarian/Constitutionalist viewpoints and yet such heartfelt love for authority...I.E., LEO's etc...?

I guess I just don't have your level of trust/respect for anyone that feels the need to tell me what to do...or else...

You stated that your a gun owner and yet you have fear...Perhaps this has to do with where you reside...?

I guess I'm just that much different...You see...I don't live in fear...not because of owning an inanimate object or two...but because I make the choice to not allow any other thing human or otherwise to have that control over me...

My belief systems are always in flux due to an honest attempt to remain open minded...I.E., realizing that belief evolves with the application of further education...

I honestly apologize to you for any offense as none was intended...I guess I just have a habit of speaking to persons on the net as I would to close friends who know the nuances of my speech patterns...that's why I've been using that winking emoticon...

No opinion matters over how we react and respond in a real way...Thank you for your time...








YouSir
edit on 23-12-2014 by YouSir because: just because



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

The answer to all that - Boo. Hoo. They signed up for it, they trained for it, they knew what they were getting in to. No one promised them it would be easy or safe, so if they can't deal with it, walk away. I have NO sympathy for anyone who takes on a job, then whines about it.Those protesters are chanting in reaction to what the police did. They didn't just get up one day and decide,"Hey, let's go march down the street yelling kill the cops" The attitude of us vs them is what got us here to begin with. They believe they are above the very law they've sworn to enforce. They threaten, beat and shoot people with very little provocation. Even when they are in the wrong, anyone who points that out is going to have one of them in their face, being intimidated and threatened with arrest. Seen their reaction to be videoed? Even if the person is 50 ft away, the cops try to cry "Officer Safety!!" and take the phone or camera. In Illinois, it a felony to record police. A FELONY!! They have brought this on themselves, with their bullying, military style tactics and equipment. They show up to a protest, armed to the teeth, looking like they're walking in to battle.

People are reacting to what's been a problem for a long time. The police over stepping their bounds and abusing their power. They want a solution to this? Then start policing themselves. Start showing the public we are all equal in the eyes of the law, instead of being protected at the cost of innocent lives. Stop giving us a reason to be afraid of them. Make putting on that uniform and badge a privilege, given only to those that will uphold the motto, To Serve and Protect.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: mortex

Quite well said, although, sadly, it will go in one eye and out the other by those who ideologically oppose all forms of law enforcement or authority in general--those who seem to think it'd be best if LEOs were armed with slingshots and pea gravel in order to fight the gangs you discussed.

Of course, it is an increasing reality that these police forces do seem to over-react with these military-style weapons when a few old-fashioned patrol cars and a hostage negotiator would do the job better (meaning: With less danger, death or distruction). I know that's where a lot of this contempt for the modern, big-city law enforcement originates for many, and I can't disagree with that, but I'm able to understand the reasoning behind why they are accumulating these weapons--as with you, I think many opponents to the LEO "militarization" seem to either forget or willfully ignore that fact.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: th2356


One reason why so many American police shoot first is that so many American civilians are armed.


Um, yeah, no.

We have always been armed and this "shoot first" mentality has never been such a serious issue before.

Nice straw-grasping, though.



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