H.R.5859 highlights the sickness of US government

a reply to: new_here

This has to be illegal.You can not just wait for people to go home and pass a bill with only 3 people.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 8675309jenny

So Putin invades his neighbors, threatens NATO and boasts that he is not afraid to use nuclear weapons, and it is three US Congressmen who have started a new Cold War. I get where you're coming from.

Wrong. Putin used troops already legally stationed in Ukraine to respond to the coup de tat organized, funded, and instigated by the West. There was no invasion. That is a fact. The cool thing about facts is that it makes opinion and ideology completely irrelevant.

What you said is just a load of crap. I'm sure the State Department doesn't mind you parroting their cheap propaganda, though.

Sorry for derailing the thread, OP. But for this particular subject, a proper foundation based on facts is especially important, and will only become more important as the Great Game progresses.

a reply to: Son of Will

But for this particular subject, a proper foundation based on facts is especially important, and will only become more important as the Great Game progresses.

It's not a game. Russian soldiers are dying.

tvrain.ru...

Ya know...these threads about such and such bills never seem to include the actual bill being introduced, always an "article" about it.

Why is that?

The bill is readily available, yet people would rather let someone else, often with an agenda, tell them what the bill says.

Make up your own mind I say.

Here's the bill..

www.congress.gov...

And FWIW, here's a presidential statement released not long ago about the bill..

www.whitehouse.gov...

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Does this help. It is from the internet site Ask

"Q: How many votes are needed to pass a bill?
A:
The number of votes needed to pass a bill depends on the Constitution and legislature, but either a simple majority or a two-thirds majority is required. In the United States, the Constitution gives Congress the authority to propose and pass bills, but a majority is required to pass them.
In the House of Representatives, when a bill is proposed, it needs a simple majority, or 218 votes in favor out of 435 members, to move onto the Senate. Once there, the bill is scrutinized before another vote is taken. In the Senate, 51 votes in favor out of 100 senators are needed to send the vote to the President and sign it into law or veto."
www.ask.com...#

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 8675309jenny

So Putin invades his neighbors, threatens NATO and boasts that he is not afraid to use nuclear weapons, and it is three US Congressmen who have started a new Cold War. I get where you're coming from.

So, the US invades any country on behalf of corporations that has coveted resources or doesn't have their "special form of banking," errr, I mean democracy, the US threatens Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. (I can keep going) and the US has boasted about how they have USED nuclear weapons, so of course they'll do it again and it IS three idiot US congressman who have started a new cold war, that's gonna heat up real fast bubba ;-) Do you get it now?

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: 8675309jenny
...
It's almost like they are not considering the 2016 elections are coming up. I've considered a number of scenarios that would explain that behavior. The leading hypothesis goes like this; the elections are completely controlled and the controllers are getting more bold with the lack of window dressing.

Another hypothesis is that they believe citizens are so oblivious they don't notice or don't care. From the street protests going on around this nation, I believe the people are noticing and starting to ask many more questions.

I don't believe this last cycle and it's political climate would result in "record low voter turnout". It doesn't make sense to me so I ask the question "why wouldn't the shadow gov just fake all the numbers?" They certainly have the motive and opportunity. Still looking for more information on that one. It's a whale.

Perhaps they know something about the 2016 elections that we don't? Maybe they are counting on something else happening before then?

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

So, the US invades any country on behalf of corporations that has coveted resources or doesn't have their "special form of banking," errr, I mean democracy, the US threatens Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. (I can keep going) and the US has boasted about how they have USED nuclear weapons, so of course they'll do it again and it IS three idiot US congressman who have started a new cold war, that's gonna heat up real fast bubba ;-) Do you get it now?

Got it: it's okay for Putin to send Russians to their deaths attempting to control Ukraine because the United States are jerks. Very mature.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

So, the US invades any country on behalf of corporations that has coveted resources or doesn't have their "special form of banking," errr, I mean democracy, the US threatens Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. (I can keep going) and the US has boasted about how they have USED nuclear weapons, so of course they'll do it again and it IS three idiot US congressman who have started a new cold war, that's gonna heat up real fast bubba ;-) Do you get it now?

Got it: it's okay for Putin to send Russians to their deaths attempting to control Ukraine because the United States are jerks. Very mature.

Both parties are out of control. In picking sides, it's the same as choosing between two prostitutes, one in a brothel and the other on the street, one can't be wrong and the other right. They both have to be right or they both have to be wrong when they are doing almost exactly the same thing.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Simple, The writers who proposed this bill, and the congressmen who passed it, get sent to russian jail immediately.

originally posted by: DJW001


You are implying that three people were afraid that someone would object to the bill. In fact, the overwhelming majority supported the bill but were afraid to vote for it openly for fear of creating divisions within their party during an election primary. Not at all the same thing.

Seriously Mr. Knowitall; Unless you have 400 congress members direct lines in your phone, then you're completely pulling this out of your ass. It's just as much pure conjecture as any other theory why it was done.

If they had overwhelming support as you so omniciently seem to know, then there would have been no need to backdoor the bill.

But it's funny to watch you price your own conjecture higher than the logical reasoning of others. Try not to get too much enjoyment out of sniffing your own methane there buddy.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

So I'm wondering if you and those here flagging this thread actually have a clue about how your own political system works?

I posted the full bill for all to see, and to absorb, thinking people could read it and see what it's all about for themselves, I fear though that it's going to be completely ignored, and that's a shame, because within the bill is clues to the disinformation spread by your thread, and by the article you've linked to.

You see, after something passes the house it then must pass the senate.

It appears that yes, the bill was introduced late at night with no one around, but firstly, do you not think that at the start of the day, each person is given an agenda for the day, listing all the bills and whatever else they plan on discussing?

Pretty ignorant to think that it was just snuck in.

Secondly, like I said, once through the house it goes to the senate.

Wanna know how long it was in the senate?

4 days.

And in those 4 days it was read twice and passed without amendment by the senate.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

The caveat is it does not require Obama to enforce any of it.

Its like Russia's use of force authorization to protect ethnic Russians. It authorized action but did not require it.

Secondly this bill passed unanimously. If members of Congress had issues with it we would hear about it.

Finally none of this would have been needed had Putin not lapsed into a time warp back to the 1980's

a reply to: 8675309jenny

What is your explanation? Be sure to include an in depth analysis of the 2016 electoral landscape.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Finally none of this would have been needed had Putin not lapsed into a time warp back to the 1980's

No. None of this would have been needed had the US not been inciting civil wars all over the planet covertly. Much less with a bunch of Nazis. Hey, when arming terrorists just isn't shock and awe enough anymore, arm Nazis instead. Nice.

We are headed for WWIII

Western banks are completely isolating Russia.

The US has backed Russia into a corner where it has to choose between letting its citizens slowly die and suffer, or killing the citizens of others to preserve its economy.

Leaves for critical military personnel have been canceled effective on January 1, 2015. In particular, leaves for personnel serving in the nuclear command structure and specific elements of the nuclear submarine fleet are now canceled. The implication should be obvious as to what the Pentagon believes is coming.

The only question remaining is when will Putin launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike upon the West in order to preserve Russia's economy? Will Putin wait until 25% of his oil reserves are gone? Will he wait until 50% of his oil reserves are spent? Keep in mind that Putin will also need his oil reserves to fight World War III.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: 8675309jenny

So I'm wondering if you and those here flagging this thread actually have a clue about how your own political system works?

I posted the full bill for all to see, and to absorb, thinking people could read it and see what it's all about for themselves, I fear though that it's going to be completely ignored, and that's a shame, because within the bill is clues to the disinformation spread by your thread, and by the article you've linked to.

You see, after something passes the house it then must pass the senate.

It appears that yes, the bill was introduced late at night with no one around, but firstly, do you not think that at the start of the day, each person is given an agenda for the day, listing all the bills and whatever else they plan on discussing?

Pretty ignorant to think that it was just snuck in.

Secondly, like I said, once through the house it goes to the senate.

Wanna know how long it was in the senate?

4 days.

And in those 4 days it was read twice and passed without amendment by the senate.

Wrong. It doesn't have to go to the house first. This one actually passed the Senate first as S.2828.

Also it's worth noting that the senate is not representative democracy. There are 2 senators from each state regardless of population or size, so it's much more concerning that it passed the House in the fashion it did.

So who was it who doesn't understand the US political system ?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: 8675309jenny

What is your explanation? Be sure to include an in depth analysis of the 2016 electoral landscape.

Sorry, you've got the wrong guy; I'm not your political science student/sub-slave. Find someone else to wear the gimp suit pal.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Much less with a bunch of Nazis.

Care to name those Nazi's since you are so determined to call them that?

Hey, when arming terrorists just isn't shock and awe enough anymore, arm Nazis instead. Nice.

And yet I don't hear you complaining about Russia sending a neo Nazi to run the separatists...why is that?

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Wrong. It doesn't have to go to the house first. This one actually passed the Senate first as S.2828.

Sorry but it was introduced by the House on the 11th and didn't go to the senate until the 12th, as shown here...

www.congress.gov...

So get the facts straight before you make make misinformed posts.

And it was not passed by the Senate but sent to committee where it was amended and sent to the House for a vote, so it never was passed by the Senate before being sent to the committee on Foreign Relations.

Note the actions from the Senate...

www.congress.gov...

But to help you out a little here you go...

Notice how this says introduced...



Now do you see where it says Passed Senate and it isn't shaded in, that means it wasn't passed by the Senate before it was sent elsewhere.