The Mysterious Antikythera Mechanism Is More Ancient Than We Thought

As if the freakishly advanced Antikythera Mechanism wasn't astounding enough, a new analysis suggests the astronomical device is older than archaeologists assumed.

The Antikythera Mechanism was discovered in an ancient shipwreck near Crete in 1901 — a site that's still yielding remarkable archaeological treasures.

This device is one of the few genuine OOPARTs that even mainstream scientists can agree does not fit with what is known about the technology of the time im which it existed.

Whatever its purpose, nothing like it would appear for another 1,000 years; it's truly an object out of time.

io9

Well, now the mystery of the device deepens:

The device itself bears inscriptions on the front and back. In the 1970s, the engravings were estimated to date from 87 B.C. But more recently, scientists examining the forms of the Greek letters in the inscriptions dated the mechanism to 150 to 100 B.C.

According to this analysis, the device could be nearly 100 years older than previously believed. This would mean that it wasn't designed and built by who many think it may have been. Archimedes is one who is often times thought to have been the mechanisms creator, but if this new research is correct, that is probably not the case:

But Archimedes was killed by a Roman soldier in 212 B.C., while the commercial grain ship carrying the mechanism is believed to have sunk sometime between 85 and 60 B.C. The new finding suggests the device may have been old at the time of the shipwreck, but the connection to Archimedes now seems even less likely.

On the Trail of an Ancient Mystery

Whatever the case may be, this bit of archaeology shows us that we do not know nearly everything we think we do in regards to our history and how primitive or advanced we were.

I would imagine that the evolution of mechanics and metals would lead up to being able to manufacture this thing took a few years .There must be older less advanced versions that may have culminated in a one model fits all .How is it that we don't have evidence of the who's and when's . It ,not being a secret weapon and was probably available to other ships travelling at the time.Those old ancient maps that show the world ,including Antarctica must have been visited . I wonder what happened to all the evidence ,or maybe we have the evidence and the people in authority wont allow it to be interpreted correctly . a reply to: jadedANDcynical

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

While it is interesting that it might be 50-100 years older than previous thought the device is not a OOPART as it is clearly a Greek artifact. It does fit in with the technology of the age it comes from and shows various errors in mathematics and theory prevalent in Hellenistic world of that time, ie that of a geocentric instead of a heliocentric view of the solar system.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I would imagine that the evolution of mechanics and metals would lead up to being able to manufacture this thing took a few years .There must be older less advanced versions that may have culminated in a one model fits all .How is it that we don't have evidence of the who's and when's . It ,not being a secret weapon and was probably available to other ships travelling at the time.Those old ancient maps that show the world ,including Antarctica must have been visited . I wonder what happened to all the evidence ,or maybe we have the evidence and the people in authority wont allow it to be interpreted correctly . a reply to: jadedANDcynical

There may indeed have been earlier models or even the possibility of a one off built by a genius of the time. It was of no use to ships (as a navigational tool) and appears to have been developed to assist in the prediction of astrology and astronomical events. There is no evidence that the ancient Greeks were visiting Antarctic (please don't link to the Piri Reis map!).

Time, nature and humanity 'happened' to all the evidence. Such devices are mentioned in the surviving writing from the classical period.

My and who would these people in authority be? There are certainly inept. It's been thoroughly studied and the study continues so your last comments does quite apply.

It looks like the Mars rover mineral detector print.

Like we've been here before scouring this earth on a mission from another planet, looking for a place to live.

History repeating itself with the same ideology and technology , just a different time.

The next time, and here we are.

a reply to: Hanslune

Yes, this is true.

I was referring, rather, to the physical design of the mechanism and it's precision clockwork gears.

I know you are credentialed, are there any other examples of technology contemporary with the device that display similar levels of sophistication?

I wouldnt say so, I would say it changes public opinion, but not historians opinions. A lot of us know that the world had always been as ingenious as it is now.

Where there's a will there's a way, necessity is the mother of invention. If people want to do something they will figure out a way to do it! Human intelligence has never changed, it's just that with the advent of agriculture and settled life, we've been given more time and security to put toward complex thought!

The tv show Ancient Discoveries is one of the best ever, it shows how amazing the ancient world was, especially in using science (such as air pressure) to perform "miraculous" things. Here's the episode about the mechanism:


I just watched a documentary recently about the easter island statues, and an experiment was done with a full size/weight replica, and they 'walked' it into position. It looked so eerie. But I firmly believe anything is possible by human will.

the engravings were estimated to date from 87 B.C. But more recently, scientists examining the forms of the Greek letters in the inscriptions dated the mechanism to 150 to 100 B.C.

But Archimedes was killed by a Roman soldier in 212 B.C., while the commercial grain ship carrying the mechanism is believed to have sunk sometime between 85 and 60 B.C. The new finding suggests the device may have been old at the time of the shipwreck, but the connection to Archimedes now seems even less likely.

Maybe my math is upside down, but I fail to see how it being older (100 -150 BC) and having Archimedes being killed 100 years prior makes it LESS likely that it could be linked to him. If anything, since it used to be dated later (87 BC), you would think that having it dated closer to his life would make it more of a connection.

I am not making any claim about the possible connection other that that I fail to see how this new date makes it less likely. It only puts the device closer to his time. Maybe the author doesn't understand how BC and AD works.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

That exist today? None to my knowledge.

I am not sure if you could point the finger at one person that may be the one but I have a suspension that a group of academics are gate keepers . I think there is plenty of evidence that large human bones have gone missing at the Smithsonian . Someone research all or a lot of old news papers and collected reports on the finds and it seems the evidence disappears . Maybe it the Bones-man .They have a tendency of occupying the higher powers of Govt. in the US . just sayin a reply to: Hanslune

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
are there any other examples of technology contemporary with the device that display similar levels of sophistication?

From a few decades later, but still very ancient:
Heron's Inventions

a reply to: Hanslune

While it is interesting that it might be 50-100 years older than previous thought the device is not a OOPART as it is clearly a Greek artifact.

It does fit in with the technology of the age it comes from and shows various errors in mathematics and theory prevalent in Hellenistic world of that time, ie that of a geocentric instead of a heliocentric view of the solar system.

Probably what scientists will be saying about us 2000 years from now. Lol!

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Hanslune
Probably what scientists will be saying about us 2000 years from now. Lol!

Yes far in the future some one will be claiming that we really had anti-gravity before it was invented in 2243 AD, teleportation, etc because they are spoken of in the writing of the times.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I am not sure if you could point the finger at one person that may be the one but I have a suspension that a group of academics are gate keepers . I think there is plenty of evidence that large human bones have gone missing at the Smithsonian . Someone research all or a lot of old news papers and collected reports on the finds and it seems the evidence disappears .

a) You can't shut a shovel-bum up.
b) Giants and such were stories to justify the theft of lands from the First Nations, enhance Mormon ideology, and account for the lack of FN in the Bible.

a reply to: Ridhya

And

a reply to: Hanslune

So, in a mechanical and engineering sense, the object does not fit in with others of it's own time and even though there are similarly somewhat advanced mechanisms, none of them approach the precision and small details to be found within the workings.

I know that as a species, we have been about as smart as we are now for as long as we have written history so having something like this is not out of the realm of the expected.

It (the existence of the device) does, to me at least, seem to imply that there are capabilities of our ancestors of which we are generally unaware.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Truly, standing on the shoulders of giants.

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: Ridhya

And

a reply to: Hanslune

So, in a mechanical and engineering sense, the object does not fit in with others of it's own time and even though there are similarly somewhat advanced mechanisms, none of them approach the precision and small details to be found within the workings.

I know that as a species, we have been about as smart as we are now for as long as we have written history so having something like this is not out of the realm of the expected.

It (the existence of the device) does, to me at least, seem to imply that there are capabilities of our ancestors of which we are generally unaware.

How are we not aware of their capability when we have the artifact demonstrating their ability to manufacture with said precision? I don't think any serious scholar doubts the capacity to create the objects, just squabble over petty things such as method of manufacture which would likely be a closely guarded trade secret the same as production models use today in order to keep a closecompetitive edge.

I didn't see the French or the English mentioned directly in the Bible either but they are mentioned in the table of Nations in Genesis . a reply to: JohnnyCanuck ETA and most shovel bumbs dont write the papers and if they were to deviate too far of the path they might find themselves ridiculed . I am thinking about that guy that dated the Egyptian Sphinx to be much older do to the water erosion .Hes not a shovel bum but he is no gate keeper either .

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

As a general rule we view ancient cultures by the 'average' or 'norm' of their culture not specific isolated items. For example in 1903 the Wright brothers flew and were well above the knowledge of almost all other Americans,

Not all American were Edisons.

Exceptional-ism is just that an exception to the general rule, in general a small group of Hellenistic Greeks were better at theory than practical mechanics; the Romans would show them up in this but the device shows us that at one time a genius or a group of them did something extraordinary.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I didn't see the French or the English mentioned directly in the Bible either but they are mentioned in the table of Nations in Genesis . a reply to: JohnnyCanuck ETA and most shovel bumbs dont write the papers and if they were to deviate too far of the path they might find themselves ridiculed . I am thinking about that guy that dated the Egyptian Sphinx to be much older do to the water erosion .Hes not a shovel bum but he is no gate keeper either .

Dr. Schoch, he is a tenured professor now - he took some flak but he did have evidence and his ideas were not true fringe but alternative which are always (well usually) accepted.

The evidence always wins out in the end. I can think of scores of people who came up with stuff that was initially not believed and is now fully accepted. That is how science works.

Oh and some of us shovel bums help in publications, I certain did my own (minor) work/research is incorporated in a half dozen publications put out by others.