The Mysterious Antikythera Mechanism Is More Ancient Than We Thought

a reply to: Hanslune

I can see that.

That would make this group of artisans (possibly a maestro and his apprentices?) the rough equivalent to MIT or LLNL.

I agree that some do actually write and I probably shouldn't have made it seem like a broad brush . The same for academia I guess . If you search you can find some on the fringe with alternative theory's .I am a proponent of the electrical universe so they are out there to be found . a reply to: Hanslune

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

As a general rule we view ancient cultures by the 'average' or 'norm' of their culture not specific isolated items. For example in 1903 the Wright brothers flew and were well above the knowledge of almost all other Americans,

Not all American were Edisons.

Exceptional-ism is just that an exception to the general rule, in general a small group of Hellenistic Greeks were better at theory than practical mechanics; the Romans would show them up in this but the device shows us that at one time a genius or a group of them did something extraordinary.

To me the genius is not in the idea of the machine (I.e. wheels cogs or gears spin around at a predetermined rate) but in tthe knowledge to craft/assemble aforementioned pieces with the precision necessary. A theoretical knowledge off water flow does not directly equate to the working knowledge of a highly engineered drainage system such as the one at macho pichu. That being said, the architect of the revolutionary idea does not require said knowledge if they can incorporate sufficiently knowledgeable persons onto their "team".

Your mention if Edison seems appropriate. While he was the driving force and dreaming the big picture where were several people involved...

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

While it is interesting that it might be 50-100 years older than previous thought the device is not a OOPART as it is clearly a Greek artifact. It does fit in with the technology of the age it comes from and shows various errors in mathematics and theory prevalent in Hellenistic world of that time, ie that of a geocentric instead of a heliocentric view of the solar system.

But if it was a navigation tool, it should be geocentric since it's purpose would be navigation on earth. I fail to see how that's a solid proof of the object's fit in history.

originally posted by: Hanslune
....There is no evidence that the ancient Greeks were visiting Antarctic (please don't link to the Piri Reis map!).

Time, nature and humanity 'happened' to all the evidence. Such devices are mentioned in the surviving writing from the classical period....

The currently existing evidence... but how can we be sure about it? There were no evidence of ''mythical'' Troy either, until it was actually discovered.
How about the megalithic building similarities between sites in Greece, Egypt and Peru or Easter Island? doesn't that indicates that they were actually connected by an even more ancient civilization we don't know about yet? What if Plato was literally right about the forgotten past of the ancestors of Hellas and their war with Atlantis? What do we actually know about the earliest evidence of humans on that ground (700.000 years ago)? and their descendents until 40, 25, 10 thousand years ago
el.wikipedia.org...
or Homo erectus trilliensis (12.000.000 years ago) www.hellinon.net...

We would know much more about the object and even maybe the above if most of the ancient knowledge (scientific writings and general literature) wasn't destroyed by ''time'' and hatred acts.

You probably disagree with my thoughts but for me some parts of mainstream history are just assumptions based on corrupted or insufficient evidence.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

But if it was a navigation tool

Is there any evidence that it was?
It did actually come with an instruction "manual." Some people can read Greek. It's function is not unknown and it is not a navigational device.
www.antikythera-mechanism.gr...

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: Hanslune

I can see that.

That would make this group of artisans (possibly a maestro and his apprentices?) the rough equivalent to MIT or LLNL.

It is my fervent hope that a second machine will be found at the site of the wreck.

We shall see.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

But if it was a navigation tool, it should be geocentric since it's purpose would be navigation on earth.

Well I can think of no way it could be used in navigation - tell you what your speculation on this is?

The currently existing evidence... but how can we be sure about it? There were no evidence of ''mythical'' Troy either, until it was actually discovered.

Troy was not lost until the destruction of the western Roman empire. The Romans who claimed descendent from the Trojans actually ran tourist tours to the location. Of course we don't know if the Roman identification of the site was correct and to this day their are problems with its current identification (no sign of the Greek camp)

How about the megalithic building similarities between sites in Greece, Egypt and Peru or Easter Island? doesn't that indicates that they were actually connected by an even more ancient civilization we don't know about yet?

Nope, they were often built thousands of years apart and said lost civ appears to have left no applicable remains.

What if Plato was literally right about the forgotten past of the ancestors of Hellas and their war with Atlantis? What do we actually know about the earliest evidence of humans on that ground (700.000 years ago)? and their descendents until 40, 25, 10 thousand years ago or Homo erectus trilliensis (12.000.000 years ago)

Plato wrote a fictional story no evidence has ever been found to justify the existence of what he described...Homo Trilliensis has never been shown to actually exist the wild claim has been around awhile. The Petralona cave skull has estimates of age from 70,000 to 700,000.

You probably disagree with my thoughts but for me some parts of mainstream history are just assumptions based on corrupted or insufficient evidence.

In general mainstream assumption are more robust that alternative views and certainly more so than fringe. It is best to take evidence piece by piece.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Dr1Akula

But if it was a navigation tool

Is there any evidence that it was?
It did actually come with an instruction "manual." Some people can read Greek. It's function is not unknown and it is not a navigational device.
www.antikythera-mechanism.gr...

I'm wondering if the good DR. is mistaken in thinking it is a maritime chronometer?

a reply to: Hanslune

I had similar thoughts in that I don't think this device would exist within a vacuum. I can't imagine that there were not other similarly complicated machines.

I wonder if it was a time traveling device and if the owner of such got trapped in the past?

Who knows? Such a timepiece might be commonplace in the future.

O_O

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
I wonder if it was a time traveling device and if the owner of such got trapped in the past?

Who knows? Such a timepiece might be commonplace in the future.

O_O

He/she came from a time where they used hand cranked astrology devices? : ]

a reply to: Hanslune

Sure. Why not? Stranger things have been known to happen.

(ETA: Handcrafted curios will never go out of style...at least, not in any future worth having - imho.)

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

It's an intriguing artifact. I wonder what happened in ancient times to halt the advancement of such technologies. I guess that's why we call the era ahead of this young Greek age "The Dark Ages". An age of utter dull brains and primitive mediocrity.

a reply to: Asynchrony

I guess that's why we call the era ahead of this young Greek age "The Dark Ages". An age of utter dull brains and primitive mediocrity.

You mean the era 1,000 years after?
That was an age of feudalism, religious oppression, famine, and plague in Europe. That's why it's called the Dark Ages.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical
Um no, every water and air pressure device, every tube and mechanism took just as much skill as creating a simple gear. The reason the gears were deciphered is because notches corresponded to astronomical calendars.


a reply to: Dr1Akula
Its purpose was not navigation, Human beings were not around 700,000 years ago, and the only evidence of Atlantis is fourth-hand stories.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: Hanslune

Sure. Why not? Stranger things have been known to happen.

(ETA: Handcrafted curios will never go out of style...at least, not in any future worth having - imho.)

....and he/she came from a time where they didn't understand the orbit of Mars and thought the earth was the center of the universe.....:up

For me the thing I think of is, if we have geniuses that do what they do these days, then why can't we have some that far back that were just so intelligent that they could produce these wonders. That or we have completely underestimated our ancestors. I think both fit well. We tend to feel superior to everything we don't unserstand.

Whatever the science behind this piece of equipment I doubt it was originally the only one of its type made.

As we have no others to hand and we know roughly its date it still leaves the door open (for me anyway) to the idea of a still unknown civilisation or an Atlantis culture who did the previous science in order to make this type of instrument and need its accuracy. We do know that ancient people were incredibly good navigators and understood the way the wind carried over the sea and the lapping of the sea against their craft, so perhaps this piece of equipment comes from the era between man's ability to naturally navigate the seas to when we came away from using our natural senses and started to depend on machinery. That era when we were supposedly tuned to the earth is long gone for most but there are still some natives from the south seas who can navigate large distances on their craft without our modern technology. We also have the Aboriginies who could navigate over land and meet up without any obvious form of modern communication between the travelling parties.

I do suspect that until we can explore the sea bed thoroughly we will continue to have huge chunks of our past unknown because we can't excavate on this land, which is bigger than the land masses we can go digging up.

originally posted by: Phage
Is there any evidence that it was?
It did actually come with an instruction "manual." Some people can read Greek. It's function is not unknown and it is not a navigational device.
www.antikythera-mechanism.gr...

If you took the time to read further to the excellent site you visited, you can actually read the ''manual'' (what is saved from it). the inscription doesn't say what it was used for... just how to use and calculate
this is what the front door inscription reads:


4.space (or distance) between
5. from the beginning
6. ---
7. --- restore (or which has been restored)
8. ---
9. towards the Sun
10 .equal and brings the Sun upon to the equal
11. brought upon the Sun the minor stationary point then occurs distance
12. brings towards the Sun up to --- and conjunction
13. on to the maximum following within other days
14. [stationa]ry point as the previous one 39
15. day, makes before one to the
16. interval brings upon to the
17. ---
18. the Sun
19. brings upon every (verb could be coincide)
20. brings upon [days]
21. days and remains until the eastern (eastern = adjective in the sense of dawn)
22. 34 days 270 days ---
23. the stationary point which is at equal distance, is at a distance from the Sun
24. 265 of the Sun, extend the distance
25. 265 of the Sun, has extended four and one seventh
26. 8 days --- of the origin --- dawn
27. interval (or separation, length, distance; greek: diastasin) large days
28. twelfth part of the circle (greek: dodecatemorios) --- subtract the remaining (genre is feminine)
29. from the evening --- and the remaining
30. in time --- days

www.antikythera-mechanism.gr...

Btw I can read ancient Greek too (no need to deride), the mechanism was a sophisticated astronomical clock, (and not an astrology tool as some believe, the zodiacs are used to form the ''virtual'' sky map) why couldn't a machine like that, be also useful in navigation, since it was found on a ship?
I believe it was a multipurpose analog computer clock, it even calculated the timing of the Olympic Games among other calendar events.

a reply to: Hanslune

I could argue about many things on the subjects I adduced ,but avoiding an offtopic discussion, I just want to say I appreciate your input, and understand your standpoint on this subject.
However I tend to remain adhering to my views.