Evolution is a farce: Evidence

a reply to: kennyb72

Hey there Kenny,

As has been noted throughout this thread, theories about the origins of life, and the evolution of life are two different things. I can see why it's impossible for you to divorce the two since you more or less have rejected sound scientific research for pseudoscience. Your spiels about consciousness are quite amusing. I'm sure they make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. The good vibrations must be clouding your mind. You have consistently made claims that, essentially, nothing can truly be known until science can objectively study them. But before they can do that they need to expand their consciousness. You also say, "It is the destiny of all humanity through the evolution of our consciousness to encompass other dimensions but this is 10s of thousands of years into the future." But I'm left wondering how you can objectively know this. Have YOU expanded your consciousness to encompass all other dimensions of life? Obviously not or you wouldn't be in this thread asking questions you don't really have an interest knowing the answers to. If anything you should be giving us the answers. "A scientist is the last person that should be forming hypothesis and declaring theory as fact because the very nature and method of their enquiry excludes the evidence that provides the answers." Oh wise one, please liberate us from the darkness. Or are you just another man behind the curtain? "You cannot observe or measure the unobservable." So wait... how are you able to back up, let alone believe on a personal level, any of your multidimensional connected consciousness, "other energies" popycock? Hey I'm not saying some of the things you've suggested in this thread are outside the realm of possibility but come on man. Do you ever read the things you type? Do you ever notice how backwards you sound? I know you're only here to poke at "us" because your posting history in this thread proves you are no different from the goal post moving fact ignoring creationists. Proof rests in the post I'm replying to! Not only have the differences between theories on origins and the theory of evolution been explained to you, so have a few of the prominent theories of origins. I really fail to see why you are asking the question again. The topic is evolution. Please talk about evolution. If you don't actually care what anyone has to say about it because you've already made your mind up about things, maybe go back to lurking? Or better yet, start contributing some counter arguments to evolution. Besides your biased opinion scientists are crack pots.

a reply to: Noinden

Thats the counter point? The OP states that Evolution is a farce and uses a youtube video with Nessie in it. The counter point is indeed my point of view.

OK, work it that way round if you like, but you still have to deal with WHY evolution is a farce,(I wouldn't use such strong language) other debaters that are drawn into the argument based on the title need to be given a voice.

The OP has presented his argument using a Youtube vid, I prefer to debate it using my own thoughts

If you want us to discuss evolution alone, then we are at the disadvantage because of our limited (compared to a scientist) understanding of physics. So, your advantage.

But if you want to debate the subject then you have to address the counter views "evolution is a farce" You have heard the OPs argument, and we have heard at least a dozen counter arguments from various posters.

When I try to present my argument by suggesting that evolution is a farce because it doesn't address origin of life, then it is suddenly inadmissible, remember the rules of engagement does not restrict this argument to just evolution but also anti evolution, opening the debate up to both opposing views.

So far on this thread you have forced us to match our knowledge against yours in physics. Now it is our turn to argue our point from the philosophical stance, which apparently non of you have an opinion. If your opinion is that it's just BS
Then don't be surprised to receive a similar reaction to your own argument.

I rest my case M'lud

If you think you have a point to try and go missionary on me

Don't you worry Noinden, not even in my sickest dreams would I ever consider going missionary on you.

you wouldn't be in this thread asking questions you don't really have an interest knowing the answers to

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I don't recall asking one single question on this thread.

I got the impression you where a more reasonable person than that when we chatted before, but it turns out you are just another competitor in the Pi$$ing competition, Well I hope your bladder is full because you have some serious competition around here.

Please read my last thread before this to understand my argument, or ring a friend for some advice.

a reply to: kennyb72

No this isn't a biggest bladder match. Don't act like you haven't made your own jabs at people either. I'm sure we can all be reasonable people here.

Let's just move on.

Theories of origin deal with the beginnings of life.

The theory of evolution deals with the diversity of life.

There simply is no suggesting evolution is false because it doesn't address origins. It has nothing to do with origins. Only what's happened since life originated. Yes they are related but they are two separate fields of study.

Perhaps we are just misunderstanding your position?

Allow me a question or two.

Do you believe life evolves, period? If so in what ways?

If the answer is no, is that because you believe everything was designed just the way it is?

If the answer to the above question is yes, your next course of action (imo) would be to make an argument for intelligent design. I think that would be perfectly acceptable for the topic of this thread based your position.

originally posted by: kennyb72
I don't recall asking one single question on this thread.

I thought I remembered you asking a few questions but I'll take your word for it. You definitely made a lot of assertions and seemed to be inquisitive.

a reply to: kennyb72

One more time: There is no such word as 'Evolutionist'. This is a very simple concept. Please try and remember it.

originally posted by: josehelps
a reply to: flyingfish So I'll ask again, if you agree with evolution, which is based on science which is NOT empirical, unlike the bible which is based on documentation of actual testimony from empirical events, how are you going to easily dismiss it's contents?

No. The bible is not used as a historical source because quite frankly it has been manipulated to the point where it is useless. The Hittites, a major power in the Middle East, are barely mentioned, the archaeology shows that the Kingdom of Solomon was far smaller than the bible says it was, there's still no physical evidence of the First Temple, the female consort of god has been removed, there's no evidence for the Exodus, or the conquest of Canaan, there are all kinds of problems with who exactly Jesus was and what he preached, his brother James vanishes mysteriously when Paul takes over... the list is a very long one. The bible is not historically accurate. It's a collection of myths and philosophical teachings and should be treated as such. It's most certainly not a scientific document, as it says that Pi = 3, which would come as a horrible shock to most architects and mathematicians.

a reply to: TechUnique

What evolutionists always fail to realize is that life is loaded with infinite variety. Look at any two trees. They may be the same such as an Oak tree, but they grown in different shapes. Is that evolution? Each tree produces no two leaves the same. Is that evolution? If evolution was real, why can't we produce new colors? Anyone ever see a new color?

Supposedly we came from rocks and water just by some cosmic mistake? Brilliant. Can't happen. It's mathematically impossible. Also, certain metals have proven evolution can not possibly ever exist.

Okay, onto the other side. No the Earth is not 10 thousand years old or something like that. Those are Pagan beliefs. Not Christian. The Bible tells you the Earth is much older than that. That is only the time frame count down for the coming of Jesus. Yeah, we came from dust instead of rocks and water. It was done by a magical super being. At least that makes more sense to me. I don't care what others think.

originally posted by: Commonlaw
a reply to: TechUnique
I don't care what others think.

Then why bother posting all that crap?

a reply to: Commonlaw

We cannot produce new colors. We can only adapt to see new colors.

Color Vision

Part of evolution is to progress when possible. I will give you a personal account of color vission.

My father and grand father, had a rare type of color blindness. Where Colors switch upon a certain age. Such as Green would be perseved Red for example. For my Maltese side of the family. All the males get affected by this not long after reaching mid forties. My half Maltese brother is going through this stage now.

While I am not in my mid forties as of yet, I was tested as a child because of the concern.

The result is that I have taken the genetic code from my English Mothers side regarding the eyes perception of color and thusly show no traits of having the same issues. That in part is how evolution works. Adapting and captilising on new genes to become better. Now my future offspring have next to no chance of this inherent family issue.

With regards to 'creating the ability' of a new color. There are new reports of what we can actually see. Such as Infared under certain conditions. We can see Infared

a reply to: WakeUpBeer
This is actually a very reasonable post, thank you.

Do you believe life evolves, period? If so in what ways?

I believe every life form evolves as per it's design through micro evolution, I would prefer to call it adaptation.
It is designed this way to encourage diversity, why re-invent the wheel when you can build diversity into the design

As in Object Oriented Programming, it is much easier to modulize an object and then make smaller changes that can be integrated over the parent object to create the desired diversity. The parent then becomes the template that attributes can be attached to, the Hominid form being an example, eyes mouth, two arms, two legs nose, etc all being part of the parent object. As far as the diversity is concerned I don't agree with mutant genes but rather intelligent adaptation built into the design.

If the answer to the above question is yes, your next course of action (imo) would be to make an argument for intelligent design

Well of course I can't prove anything because the designers don't live around here, well they do but not on this plane of existence. I did explain this briefly in another post.

Before I go into that I would just like you to clear your mind for a moment, see if you can shake of this illusion that you are just a piece of animated meat and realise what you actually are. You are a single point of consciousness completely isolated from all the other points of consciousness. Your "I am" has been on a journey for millions of years experiencing everything there is to be experienced in the natural kingdom. Because you have made it into the human kingdom you have already come a very long way. All that is required of you now is to complete your journey through multiple incarnation of being a human being experiencing everything of what it means to be a man or a woman. You will have ample opportunity to be born rich, poor, dumb, deaf, insane, intelligent powerful, disabled, athletic. you get the idea.

For every life we live our circumstances dictate different sets of challenges some we conquer some we fail, but we always learn, not superficially but profoundly. Over thousands of years our conscious awareness expands and we slowly develop the ability to comprehend objective reality in the next higher world. Yogi's, Meditation experts as well as individuals who have mastered OBE's and also Sharmans with the aid of certain natural substances, can all testify experiencing objective reality in what some call the world of illusion or Maya.

This dimension also is broken into several layers of existence. When we die, it is here that we arrive. Some people transition very quickly to the higher levels of the world of illusion other poor souls are trapped in the lower regions in a very cold sad place where they are allowed to work out for themselves why they can't move on. The universe loves every one of us regardless of our deeds and is merciful and if they cannot move to a higher level themselves by figuring out their own problems, they are then allowed to sleep until their next incarnation. Others arrive into the higher realms of the world of illusions and they are greeted by their own deities, of course they don't actually exist because their own illusion or delusion are creating their reality,maya.

When we have reached a point of consciousness where we can objectively experience Maya, we are approaching the final stages of our reincarnations but there is still some way to go.

Now I will leave that be for the time being and explain more of our intelligent design.

When we finally leave the human kingdom we awake in the essential kingdom, It is here we have access to the memories of all our thousand of lives although many prefer not to relive the memories because some of them are very painful. Here we are assisted in achieving a kind of initiation. It is a very solemn step because once achieved we discard our individual cloak and meld into a collective consciousness. The whole purpose for our isolation in the human kingdom was for us to build our self identity. There is no place in the collective for non-individuals, without this development we simply would not be able to function. The process is hierarchical from here, and thousands of years can pass before the next transmigration to the divine kingdom this time is not waisted however as we are allowed to pursue whatever study we wish to master. Within the divine kingdoms amongst many other important streams of expertise are the genetic scientists who perfect the organisms that occupy this, the coarsest of all the dimensions. Their roll is to create the most suitable life forms to facilitate a self sustaining system. When a biological creature is perfected it is built out to take form in this dimension in an area where it can thrive and adapt to changing circumstances.

I could write several books explaining each of these stages in quite exact detail.

This is the shortest I could make it to explain who our designers are.

I can't prove any of this of course, but I can promise you all one thing, sometime in the future you will have all the proof you need.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

One more time: There is no such word as 'Evolutionist'. This is a very simple concept. Please try and remember it.

WHAT?

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

One more time: There is no such word as 'Evolutionist'. This is a very simple concept. Please try and remember it.

WHAT?

Your link is to the Free Dictionary, which is not really a reputable source. Here's a better one.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I give up, I really do, Well not really - I'M BACK AGAIN - just grow up.

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I give up, I really do, Well not really - I'M BACK AGAIN - just grow up.

Try addressing the science, as you appear to be avoiding it a great deal at the moment.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I wish you would keep up Angry, why are you angry by the way, Oh never mind

Just read through my last several posts instead of ignoring them and you will understand - Well!

originally posted by: kennyb72
I can't prove any of this of course, but I can promise you all one thing, sometime in the future you will have all the proof you need.

So you have no argument for ID (creationism in a cheap lab coat) and instead posted a bunch of stuff that youve made up and merely hope is true?

originally posted by: kennyb72
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I wish you would keep up Angry, why are you angry by the way, Oh never mind

Just read through my last several posts instead of ignoring them and you will understand - Well!

I did read your posts. Your main one appears to refer to your personal metaphysical and philosophical beliefs. It's a free universe and if you really believe all that then fair enough. Personally speaking I note the complete absence of any form of proof or indeed any evidence for the tiniest scintilla of it. If it makes you feel unique then fair enough. However, there is far more evidence that you are a member of the species Homo Sapiens, which is descended from Homo Erectus and then beyond Homo Habilis. We have, you know, science that proves it.

a reply to: Prezbo369

So you have no argument for ID (creationism in a cheap lab coat) and instead posted a bunch of stuff that youve made up and merely hope is true?

I didn't make this up. This information has been esoteric for at least 5,000 years and similar accounts where recorded from Egyptian antiquity and along with numerous other sources was also related by a man known then as Thoth and Mentioned in early greek history as Hermes Trismegistus.

It is also fully explained in Pythagorean Hylozoics, The ancient Veda records, Chaldean Kabbalists and The Gnostics Mystery schools.

Do some homework and you will discover for yourself.

This knowledge is well known in certain circles at the very highest levels of society but that is a whole different story.

Examples where this knowledge went horribly wrong includes the Thule Society, The original source of The Ayrian race one of the root races of civilisation after a certain epoch.

Other sources
The theosophical society
Madam Petrovna Blavatsky, Alice Bailey,
Plato's world of ideas
The list goes on, do some research

originally posted by: Commonlaw
a reply to: TechUnique

What evolutionists always fail to realize is that life is loaded with infinite variety. Look at any two trees. They may be the same such as an Oak tree, but they grown in different shapes. Is that evolution? Each tree produces no two leaves the same. Is that evolution? If evolution was real, why can't we produce new colors? Anyone ever see a new color?

Homo Sapiens Sapiens can see every possible color in the visible light spectrum. Others like myself have a mutation that affects the ability to see in the red-green spectrum. Others are born with a mutation called Aphakia which allows them to be able to see into the UV Spectrum. Colors are produced, the photons are decoded by our retinas.

Supposedly we came from rocks and water just by some cosmic mistake? Brilliant. Can't happen. It's mathematically impossible. Also, certain metals have proven evolution can not possibly ever exist.

Oh, well some random person on the internet has declared it mathematically impossible so it must be true. Why use the tools we have at our disposal like science, research and actual experiments when random internet guy can just wish it away...phew I'm so relieved now. Thanks random person. Is that actually what Abiogenesis postulates? Have you read and researched it or are you basing all of that on hearsay, second hand information?

Okay, onto the other side. No the Earth is not 10 thousand years old or something like that. Those are Pagan beliefs. Not Christian.

No, a Catholic monk came up with the 6400(?) year time frame so that is very much a Christian number not pagan.

The Bible tells you the Earth is much older than that. That is only the time frame count down for the coming of Jesus. Yeah, we came from dust instead of rocks and water. It was done by a magical super being. At least that makes more sense to me. I don't care what others think.

I'm so glad you were able to settle this for us after 60 pages. Magical supermen are definitely way cooler of an answer than actually looking at the available data and putting in the legwork and study time! So how old does the bible say Earth is and where in said book would one find this information? and really... what is the difference between dust vs. rocks n' water? I'm sure you can quantify that for the curious amongst us right?

a reply to: peter vlar

You forgot to mention that the electromagnetic spectrum doesn't just "add" new colors the same way the periodic table doesn't just add a new element.