A Simple Question for Christians

Matthew 24
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.

It seems to me that this waiting game plays into the hands of TPTB, not the ones who are waiting for Jesus. People have been saying the end is near for thousands of years on the basis of the "wars and rumors of wars" verse I cited (we've also been warring for the same amount of time as well), this has caused complacency in my opinion and the world has suffered.

So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back? Remember, war is required for his return according to Jesus himself. It could be years and years of more wars and death before his return. Are you willing to sacrifice all of those lives not knowing exactly when it will happen if even in your lifetime?

Please be respectful, this is an honest question, I'm very curious to hear the responses.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

People have been saying the end is near for thousands of years on the basis of the "wars and rumors of wars" verse I cited, this has caused complacency in my opinion and the world has suffered.

Maybe then the interpretation of whats to come is off? Imagine that.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1 I thought jesus is a man of peace and love, I didn't expect him to say that. But I haven't read the bible, I would not want these wars and so delay the son of gods return, I don't think he would mind

a reply to: intrptr

This is actually kind of my point. What makes Christians today so sure their interpretation is correct? They're in the same boat as those in the past.

I can only say that I would not go to war myself ,unless I was under attack .If I was in a position as to determining when Jesus would return then I would have to know what God knows and would probably choose to do the same .There is way more going on then what we humans are privy to . a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I may noy be a Christian, but here is my view. There is wars going on today. Who is to say that one of those wars is not the one He skope about? And it can be either world wars, race wars, political wars, or any other kind of war. But intresting topic

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What makes Christians today so sure their interpretation is correct?

That is the conundrum, religion claims to have all the answers, so its difficult for it to admit it doesn't know. If we can't admit we don't know its harder to be humble. Whats more important, knowing whats coming or living in the moment?

I am totally fascinated with interpretation of ancient texts, but I see it from a modern perspective. People that lived thousands of years ago had no idea what they were seeing in their visions. And today we take all the subsequent progress of technology for granted.

Minus knowledge of the true ancient names and stories and the etymology involved, just a free form metaphoric look at that passage, standing alone, I would say it means this: that though you still struggle with overcoming your anger, warring nature and lower mind impulses, don't give up, but persist because you will achieve Higher Mind, Christ will be born in you.

I would relate that to this passage:

Colossians 1:27

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

I know that I am already treading the water of heresy, but since I’m already on the subject, I think I’ll dive all the way in!J Not only did Paul proclaim that Christ was within everyone, but he also hints at the fact that Christ is within everything!

“…[Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature…For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible…” (1 Corinthians 1:15-16).

Let that sink in. Paul is effectively saying that Christ is within all of creation!

Maybe now the scripture I quote below can finally be made sense of:

“…be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven…” (1 Corinthians 1:23).

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

For myself, I am positive that Paul’s version of Christianity would resemble the essence of Christian mysticism. How can I make such a statement? Paul’s own words tell us this, and in today’s post we’re going to discuss a few verses from Romans chapter 2 that reflect this sentiment.

Meanings are always inner.

It's a useful belief. There have been, and likely always will be, wars and rumors of wars.

Such things must happen - as is said. Also, the end will come. For each of us with this belief in mind, an end will come to the chaos we see in the world. We will be able to separate ourselves from it.

It's a straight-forward message.

A common misconception with Christianity is that it is a religion of pacifism or peace. This is true to an extent, however war is not completely denied as a potential, but not for evil reasons. Although Jesus does preach a message of peace and fellowship as in "blessed are the peacemakers" (Matt. 5:9), there are also various verses that allow for military or the use of force. Christians are meant to maintain peace whenever possible, but they must not be afraid to use arms as an absolute last resort. Basically, if it is in our power to stop major violence, then we should do so. It would be sinful to let it keep going on.

This idea is explained further, at least in Catholic doctrine in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

-The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
-All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
-There must be serious prospects of success;
-The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

If there is an evil so grave that force is necessary to stop it, then force must be used to stop it. I believe Mattew is referring to future conflicts that may arise in which war is unavoidable. I think immediately to forces such as ISIS in which reasoning and negotiation do not prevail; a force that is intent on hurting a lot of people and in which force must be used. I believe this is what Matthew is referring to: the necessity of certain unavoidable wars to come. This doesn't immediately identify Christians as the aggressors or defenders either, just that war is a part of the human condition and they will be waged regardless of where Christians stand at the time. It's not a matter of wars being necessary for Jesus to come back, but that they will happen regardless and that faith must not be lost before the end comes.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ok...what I am going to tell you...I was told by a learned Jewish Scholar; what I am sharing is from the notes I took.

The reason I am sharing this is because many people believe that the Bible is the word of God; I believe that over the years many men have rearranged the Bible to suit their needs; and then say it was God who said it; when it was really man who said it.

So...Jesus saying there will be wars and rumors of wars...etc. I question if he actually said that.

The oldest known Bible is called the "Sinai Bible" and it has almost 15,000 differences from the Bible of today.

The Bible that is of today is not the full version. In 1415 the Church of Rome destroyed a lot of knowledge that should have been included in the Bible of today.

2 second century Jewish books that contained the name of Jesus were destroyed. Benedict XIII condemned the Latin writing called "Mar Yesu". And gave instructions for another book titled "Elxai" to be destroyed. These books were original records about the life of Jesus.

Later Pope Alexander VI condemned copes of the Talmud and ordered them to be destroyed.

Thomas de Torguemada in the 1400's is responsible for the destruction of 6,000 volumes.

In the year 1554 Solomon Romana burned thousands of Hebrew scrolls and in 1559 every Hebrew book in the city of Prague was taken.

Mass destruction of Hebrew books included 100's of copies of Old testament; many hand written original documents were lost forever.

The church burned 12,000 volumes of the Talmud to remove real important information about Jesus.

In the year 1607 around 50 men took almost 3 years to re-write the Bible. It was by the order of King James. He had a set of rules they all had to follow; when they were completed they were sent to King James for his approval; but King James couldn't handle it so he had Sir Frances Bacon edit the Bible.

The original Greek writings of the Bible were written in the 4th century and were revised from earlier writings. Some of the important earlier documents that were is Aramaic and Hebrew we destroyed.

In the year 325 Emperor Constantine gathered a bunch of religious leaders together in one place to decide what Christianity should be; what writings to use and who God would be. A vote was taken.

In the King James Bible of today it lacks 14 books that were in the original King James version in 1611.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

War was implied in the words writtin because the word peace does not exist. We will find the piece we all wrongly have been duped into wanting if we do not realeyes this. Peace is a trojan horse full of piece meaning we will remain divided and at war because we do not say what we really want an end to fighting and death. step one recognize we have a problem.

shalom or shalam would have better results

also saying that ending war right now would stop the return could be false because i think the verse you cite has been fulfilled and that he walks among us

caladonea just put bacon in the bible. that is a first for me.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Find me a time in history, or at the very least since the 'christ' event, where their have not been wars and rumors of wars?

You question has merit however. If we're honest with ourselves, most of us would not end all war - we might say it - but what we'd mean is more along the lines of 'end all the wars as long as my side wins' or something equally partisan.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Matthew 24
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.

It seems to me that this waiting game plays into the hands of TPTB, not the ones who are waiting for Jesus. People have been saying the end is near for thousands of years on the basis of the "wars and rumors of wars" verse I cited (we've also been warring for the same amount of time as well), this has caused complacency in my opinion and the world has suffered.

So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back? Remember, war is required for his return according to Jesus himself. It could be years and years of more wars and death before his return. Are you willing to sacrifice all of those lives not knowing exactly when it will happen if even in your lifetime?

Please be respectful, this is an honest question, I'm very curious to hear the responses.

Actually, everything attributed to Jesus in the Bible was written by men who didn't live when Jesus allegedly lived and never heard him say anything. In fact, there's not an iota of historical evidence proving that Jesus ever lived. So it was men who said that for their own purposes.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back?

I would prefer that He make his presence known with a book of explanation and correct presuppositions written in all languages, complete with a history of our human form. We could then stop our own wars. I would also like Him to confess to dividing mankind by creating Eve and for making the Snake.

Revelation 12

Revelation 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Hurled down to Earth, to make war with us. Of course, what we fail to note is this from Genesis 3:

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made.

Yahweh is the Lord Adonai, just as Jesus is the Lord Adonai (Son of God, or Son of Elohim). Satan was created by the Son of God, the same Son of God that makes war.

Revelation 19

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

There is no such thing as a righteous war. War is unrighteous, as is any form of bloodshed. Genesis 9 tells us this.

Remember, he loves enemies. Love does not wage war. Love must do good to enemies. War is not a produce of any God of Love. For Christ to be considered true, He must come and confess his errors as Yahweh. More war will simply show that Yahweh is still very much alive and no payment was made on the cross. Bloodshed is why Yahweh hung on a cross.

Genesis 9 (Words of Elohim)

Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

The main error of Yahweh was shedding Adam's blood, then dividing the image (both male and female) of Adam. From this, we see nothing but bloodshed since that time. Angels are both Male and Female. They are complete.

Matthew 22

29 Yeshua answered, “You’re mistaken because you don’t know the Scriptures or God’s power. 30 When people come back to life, they don’t marry. Rather, they are like the angels in heaven. 31 Haven’t you read what God told you about the dead coming back to life? He said, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.’ He’s not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Nothing short of love for enemies will demonstrate the words of Jesus.

a reply to: caladonea

Good point.

The Gospels were not written by God or Jesus. They were written by anonymous eye witnesses (who didn't actually call themselves "Mark", "Matthew", "Luke", or "John"; those names were assumed later). They say the first 5 books of the Old Testament/Torah/Bible was written by Moses, but those books also talks about his death and what happened after his death; and if it were possible for Moses to do, why not The Son of God (Jesus)? Why would God rely on anonymous eye witnesses to write about "His Only Begotten Son" but give direct divine revelation to Moses to write?

Some people are now saying they don't like Paul, but some of Paul's letters/epistles are the oldest writings about Jesus in The New Testament that we have.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.

God is just telling you what he saw happen. I don't know if you take jiu jitsu or are familiar with it but I do. In that art if something is opposing you, you let it go where it wants and react to it. God does something similar to humans. We mess stuff up, and he knows how and already has things in place to fix them. Just because he tells you what he sees happens doesn't mean its his doing lol.

So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back? Remember, war is required for his return according to Jesus himself. It could be years and years of more wars and death before his return. Are you willing to sacrifice all of those lives not knowing exactly when it will happen if even in your lifetime

Sure I would. However, I can tell you that even if I tried to stop wars someone would continue them because God has already seen it....its not about Him making those wars happen its the fact that those wars have already happened in Gods view and he just told us about them....

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Christ is simply stating a fact that war is a natural condition of fallen man and that wars will increase and so will the weather disasters and such.

In Matthew 23 (there were no chapter breaks )Yahoshua just ripped the pharisees a new one.He lamented over the extreme perversion of Judaism .When he spoke of Jerusalem (it is not the city in Israel..it means abode or dwelling of peace) and how it’s house(oikos…. dwelling place )are left (aphiemi…divorced, sent away) desolate ( solitary ,wilderness).He is speaking of the futility of religion and how it cannot live and dwell in peace. ..which he is ALWAYS speaking of.He never even tried to change and seldom even came close to addressing sociological or political problems.Everything he proclaimed was the coming of the Kingdom of the creator God and being “freed from bondage”(the definition of forgiveness) of/ from mankinds myriad of religion Belief System.

When he said Jerusalem and house the disciples thought he meant Herods temple(which was completely meaningless).These types of imperception are the basis of religion (Judaism,Christianity).They “believe” their “God” said one thing when in fact they didn’t.Yahoshua just trashed the whole Judaic hierarchy of religion (which he did ALL of the time) in Matt 23 yet the disciples still did not understand what he meant.They still thought like religious minded Jews.

On that note …the word translated war is polemos meaning strife,quarrel ,dispute the word rumors is from akoe meaning the sense of hearing the thing heard(perception of reality/truth)..it doesn’’t mean what Christianity means at all.The wars are not about “physical wars”.It should be (but isn’t) painfully obvious Yahoshua is seldom talking about what his hearers think he is.They think of “material” events and actions when he isn’t talking of that at all.

Wars are not his concern he is talking about what is REALLY going on.The imperception through the religious carnal mind( satan) of reality and truth.The people (the religious pharisees and even the disciples) are always concerned about micro “events” Yahoshua is speaking in macro terms of the big picture of ALL of mankind (and creation).It isn’t that he isn’t concerned for them he is just telling them you can’t see the forest because the trees are in your way. He clearly tells ONLY the disciples what will happen in their time(and later) concerning the BIG picture..
Do not be deceived for MANY will come in my name saying they are christ and deceive many.”

He even reiterates then by framing it differently ..MANY religious perverts like the pharisees(antichrist as John later writes) will be coming in MY name saying they are from me trying to establish a religion (which became Christianity) which is “an” abomination of desolation(claiming to be “of” God when they are not).If you want to have even an inkling of what Yahoshua is saying NEVER think he is speaking of this aion translated “world” and means age or realm.He clearly stated my kingdom is NOT of this aion.

He proclaimed the coming of the Kingdom of the creator God WAS coming.It is NOT "of" the physical realm though because the physical realm is only a womb where EVERYTHING is in the process of being conceived.NOTHING has even been born into LIFE yet because EVERYTHING in the material realm must and WILL die and BE dead to the material realm.That is 100% absolute fact no matter what anyone believes.

The “strife,disputes and quarrels” will continue because “religion”(sin nature) is the nature of ALL of mankind.They are terminally ill and it will kill them.Not so ironically the ones “accused” of being the most evil are the ones that for the most part participate in their “religion” the least…atheists and agnostics…that should be the abundant evidence of how blind the religion believing religious are but it is the main imperception that blinds them to reality and truth by believing in a false God and believing their False religion.

There is no war between God and EVIL the only war going on is between the ears of man in their religious carnal mind (satan)…the abomination of desolation.That abomination has caused more conflict than any other in all of history.It tears families and nations apart and all of humanity.When 1/3 of all the people on the planet believe the rest are destined for the eternal torture or annihilation punishment of hell and is administered mercilessly and unjustly by their “God” there can be no peace on earth.

a reply to: arpgme

except they're not actually about Jesus... they're about Paul and his version of Jesus

He didn't know Jesus first off...

And secondly he even admits he didn't learn anything from those that did know him

they might be the earliest record of the name Jesus... but they are certainly not about him