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A Simple Question for Christians

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posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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God is Omniscience .. So He knows the future and what mankind will do... He is not causing the wars.. God gave mankind free will.. So just because he can see the future doesn't mean he is causing it.. Any evil is from free will.. and there cannot be good without evil




posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: HODOSKE


Ye sure about that?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

Leave it to the god of the OT to ruin an argument


edit on 19-11-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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no I am not sure.. just my belief and opinion



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: HODOSKE

At least you're honest...

Well said good sir




posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

A quote from John Gill's Exposition of the Bible:


I make peace, and create evil; peace between God and men is made by Christ, who is God over all; spiritual peace of conscience comes from God, through Christ, by the Spirit; eternal glory and happiness is of God, which saints enter into at death; peace among the saints themselves here, and with the men of the world; peace in churches, and in the world, God is the author of, even of all prosperity of every kind, which this word includes: "evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see Job 2:10,



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: HODOSKE
God is Omniscience .. So He knows the future and what mankind will do... He is not causing the wars.. God gave mankind free will.. So just because he can see the future doesn't mean he is causing it.. Any evil is from free will.. and there cannot be good without evil



So God is not all-powerful. God is powerless against evil. I'm glad you set that straight.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: HODOSKE


Ye sure about that?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

Leave it to the god of the OT to ruin an argument



You know they haven't actually read the entire Bible. They'd be singing a different tune if they had.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: HODOSKE
no I am not sure.. just my belief and opinion



On what is your belief and opinion based? Surely not the Bible.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: caladonea

Good point.

The Gospels were not written by God or Jesus. They were written by anonymous eye witnesses (who didn't actually call themselves "Mark", "Matthew", "Luke", or "John"; those names were assumed later). They say the first 5 books of the Old Testament/Torah/Bible was written by Moses, but those books also talks about his death and what happened after his death; and if it were possible for Moses to do, why not The Son of God (Jesus)? Why would God rely on anonymous eye witnesses to write about "His Only Begotten Son" but give direct divine revelation to Moses to write?

Some people are now saying they don't like Paul, but some of Paul's letters/epistles are the oldest writings about Jesus in The New Testament that we have.






Eye witnesses to what? Not to the existence of Jesus (who probably never existed). The Gospels weren't written until multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived. Paul never claimed to have witnessed Jesus living.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.


God is just telling you what he saw happen. I don't know if you take jiu jitsu or are familiar with it but I do. In that art if something is opposing you, you let it go where it wants and react to it. God does something similar to humans. We mess stuff up, and he knows how and already has things in place to fix them. Just because he tells you what he sees happens doesn't mean its his doing lol.




So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back? Remember, war is required for his return according to Jesus himself. It could be years and years of more wars and death before his return. Are you willing to sacrifice all of those lives not knowing exactly when it will happen if even in your lifetime


Sure I would. However, I can tell you that even if I tried to stop wars someone would continue them because God has already seen it....its not about Him making those wars happen its the fact that those wars have already happened in Gods view and he just told us about them....


So the Bible lied and God didn't create everything, including evil. Good to know.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: guitarplayer
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Christ is simply stating a fact that war is a natural condition of fallen man and that wars will increase and so will the weather disasters and such.


Really? Which book of the Bible did Jesus write? The answer is none. In fact, not one word of the Bible was written by anyone who witnessed Jesus living or heard him say anything. I suggest you do some research.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.
Jesus also said that men had been trying to seize the kingdom by violence since John the Baptist, so he was probably talking about small scale local skirmishes, and not about some future global war.

edit on 19-11-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.
Jesus also said that men had been trying to seize the kingdom by violence since John the Baptist, so he was probably talking about small scale local skirmishes, and not about some future global war.


Which book of the Bible did Jesus write?



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 03:51 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

War and Death on this world are not important in the grand scheme of things if we truly have an immortal soul.

To further answer, you can not prevent Jesus from coming back at the proper time, it has already been decided when it will happen. If wars can be stopped now, then now is not the time He would return, it can't be delayed.
edit on 20-11-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

LOL? how did you get, "So the Bible lied and God didn't create everything, including evil" from what you quoted from me ? Also I don't remember where you posted it but you asked me to post contemporary sources for Jesus:
Contemporary
adjective
1.
existing, occurring, or living at the same time; belonging to the same time:

Mark Luke Matthew John....there ya go.... now you post me a contemporary source for Plato Aristotle and hmm Alexander the Great. Before you try let me give you a fun little fact the biography of Alexander the great was written close to 400 years after he died ;P

Another fun fact Pauls letters were writen between 40-70 AD...while he never knew Jesus he knew James and Peter.




Not to the existence of Jesus (who probably never existed).


This statement shows how ignorant of history you are...not one serious historical scholar would agree with you...



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Tangerine

LOL? how did you get, "So the Bible lied and God didn't create everything, including evil" from what you quoted from me ? Also I don't remember where you posted it but you asked me to post contemporary sources for Jesus:
Contemporary
adjective
1.
existing, occurring, or living at the same time; belonging to the same time:

Mark Luke Matthew John....there ya go.... now you post me a contemporary source for Plato Aristotle and hmm Alexander the Great. Before you try let me give you a fun little fact the biography of Alexander the great was written close to 400 years after he died ;P

Another fun fact Pauls letters were writen between 40-70 AD...while he never knew Jesus he knew James and Peter.




Not to the existence of Jesus (who probably never existed).


This statement shows how ignorant of history you are...not one serious historical scholar would agree with you...



You claim that God is not responsible for that which humans do. Therefore, when the Bible says that God created everything including evil, the Bible must be wrong.

No, I asked you to cite contemporaneous sources (ie. someone who lived when Jesus allegedly lived who wrote that s/he witnessed Jesus living). You failed to do so.

I made no claims about Plato, Aristotle or Alexander the Great nor do I worship them.

Paul never claimed to have witnessed Jesus living.

Apparently, you haven't read the Bible.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine




Paul never claimed to have witnessed Jesus living. Apparently, you haven't read the Bible.


You do realize I said Paul never knew Jesus...




No, I asked you to cite contemporaneous sources (ie. someone who lived when Jesus allegedly lived who wrote that s/he witnessed Jesus living). You failed to do so.


Matthew-writer claims to be an eyewitness
John-writer claims to be an eyewitness
Luke-claims to record eyewitness testimony
Mark-claims to record eyewitness testimony
Paul-claims to have seen Resurrected Jesus

Now I have done what you asked. If you don't believe the authors of the document please give a historical reason for distrusting the documents? They are accurate to everything we know about history, and when history tries to tackle the Bible history always ends up biting its own tail. A couple of examples are King david and the Hittite culture.




I made no claims about Plato, Aristotle or Alexander the Great nor do I worship them.


Yea but I highly doubt you reject their existence like I have seen you do with Christ....



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine




You claim that God is not responsible for that which humans do. Therefore, when the Bible says that God created everything including evil, the Bible must be wrong.


Of course I claim God is not responsible for the choices of humans because humans have free will? How do you relate the two ideas? You are just making one unmerited claim and then pretending it backs up some other unmerited claim.

God allows moral Evil to exist he doesn't cause it. Cold is the absence of heat. Once you get to absolute zero(no heat) you can't get any "colder." If cold existed you could make no heat colder but you cannot. Darkness is the absence of light. Again once you get to no light you cannot make total darkness darker. Evil is the absence of Good. God is the objective standard of Good. Omnibenevolence is part of his essence. Hell is the absence of all Good. Why? Because hell is total separation from God. If God is all goodness and your separated from him you are left with no Goodness(Evil). Right now we have the ability to choose to accept that we are broken and only through Christ, and his victory on the cross can we be made new, or to choose to accept ourselves and our own law. God will honor your choice either way. If you choose your own way he won't force you into his presence. However your own way is going to fall short friend. Sin is not a word that means to do something bad. Sin comes from an old archery term that means to miss the mark. We are broken creatures because of our choices. We are to unloving. Anyone that is "not perfect as the Heavenly father is perfect" has missed the mark. You can't work your way to heaven.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 11:15 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Matthew 24
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.


Jesus says that wars and rumors of wars are supposed to take place before his second coming, this means that war is part of God's great work and that the end (second coming) will not come until wars have been fought and blood has been spilled.

It seems to me that this waiting game plays into the hands of TPTB, not the ones who are waiting for Jesus. People have been saying the end is near for thousands of years on the basis of the "wars and rumors of wars" verse I cited (we've also been warring for the same amount of time as well), this has caused complacency in my opinion and the world has suffered.

So now to my question: Christians, would you choose to end all war tomorrow if it meant delaying or stopping Jesus from coming back? Remember, war is required for his return according to Jesus himself. It could be years and years of more wars and death before his return. Are you willing to sacrifice all of those lives not knowing exactly when it will happen if even in your lifetime?

Please be respectful, this is an honest question, I'm very curious to hear the responses.


It doesn't say that war is a requirement of His return. It's saying that wars and rumors of wars are one of the things that will happen to be going on before His return. In Luke 21:28 He said: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

It's just one of many signs that will hopefully get people's attention and cause them to make Him their Lord and Savior before it's too late.



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 12:28 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Tangerine




Paul never claimed to have witnessed Jesus living. Apparently, you haven't read the Bible.


You do realize I said Paul never knew Jesus...




No, I asked you to cite contemporaneous sources (ie. someone who lived when Jesus allegedly lived who wrote that s/he witnessed Jesus living). You failed to do so.


Matthew-writer claims to be an eyewitness
John-writer claims to be an eyewitness
Luke-claims to record eyewitness testimony
Mark-claims to record eyewitness testimony
Paul-claims to have seen Resurrected Jesus

Now I have done what you asked. If you don't believe the authors of the document please give a historical reason for distrusting the documents? They are accurate to everything we know about history, and when history tries to tackle the Bible history always ends up biting its own tail. A couple of examples are King david and the Hittite culture.




I made no claims about Plato, Aristotle or Alexander the Great nor do I worship them.


Yea but I highly doubt you reject their existence like I have seen you do with Christ....


The Gospels were not written by the named authors. In fact, the books were not named until long after they were written. The Book of Mark was written, at the earliest, in 70. The Books of Mark and Luke were written in the 80s or 90s. The Book of John was written in the 90s or 100s. As you can see, the books were not written until multiple generations after Jesus allegedly lived.

The Gospels are not accurate as to known history. For example, there is zero historical evidence that Jesus actually lived or was crucified by the Romans. "Lord of the Rings' was filmed in New Zealand. Does that prove that hobbits live(d) in New Zealand? There are stories about mythological figures set in real locations. Does that make those mythological figures real?

I have no reason to care whether Aristotle, Plato or Alexander the Great lived. No one is pounding on my door telling me about them and threatening me with eternal torture if I don't believe in them. Moreover, no one is attempting to turn my country into a Platoocracy.



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